Discussion- END GAME?

[Rael]

As an avid player of both CoH and WoW, I've realized they are two very different games and draw a decidely different kind of gamer. These are just my observations and opinions feel free to discuss.

WoW caters to what we used to call "munchkins" in the old d20 tabletop days, that is- powergamers. This is a primarily solo game for most of your trip from 1st-60th level, because exps are split between teamed players as is loot/gold. Only instances require a team and are limited to 5 in a team, unless you are in a raid which is just a kill fest with no quest items available. Also the accumulation of loot/gear/stuff is the end all/be all of the game. More power! So WoW has given these players a butt-load of post 60 end-game stuff to do, and will shortly be releasing an expansion to increase level cap to 70 and open a new continent full of 60+ content.

CoH on the flip side of the coin caters to the social adventurer. The person who loves the game for its content and the near constant social interaction. As an instance based game soloing is rather dull and will only net you about 20% of the exps you could get with a team. There is no loot to gather, only enhancements to buy. This is a huge draw for me and many players, as looting is the root of all drama on WoW. There are a few accolades that buff you a bit, but few are "gotta have" items. As of this moment "end-game" content is nearly non-existant. After you've wasted the AV's only Hami is left. Altho the Hami-O at the end is nifty- a Hami-raid is still pretty dull. Not to mention ultra lag-atosis.

Both games each very different and both have their strong points and weak ones. Now what I'd like to discuss is the lack of "end game" material here in CoH. What kind of "end game" material would you like to see? What sort of rewards (not badges) would you like to see for these. Would we become uber-toons like Statesman? Many WoW end-game instances you must repeat many times, accomplishing certain objectives within the instance each time. Is there something like that perhaps for CoH?

This lack of a reason to continue to play our 50's is the sole reason people leave CoH. Right now I only break out Rael to shoot the breeze in Atlas/Pocket D with pals or when we need to bring the pain on a seriously tough AV. Crimzon I'm enjoying 5x more than I did leveling Rael, so I'm in no real hurry for him to hit 50 and head out to pasture.

Read a second thread on this subject here on my SG's forum
http://www.tdop.org/phpnuke/modules....ic&p=4567#4567

Please discuss.

[Gold Rush]

Well, I think we've hashed this out before in old posts somewheres, perhaps the "What would you like to see in-game" section of these boards, but being one never to follow strict guidelenes and since it fits here as much as the other section, I'll bite.

Actually, come to think of it LOTS has been said, so it's hard to find out where to begin...

So, I'll just say a few things off the top of my head.

More "end content" would be nice, even if it is "more of the same". Actually, CoV has pointed out/laid the ground work for this. A few new "tricks" and missions and all that. Maybe a mentor program on the hero side.

Some "individualization" would be cool. Like a reward for such and such person, maybe a statue in game or a storyline involving the hero/villian; more like a representation to others. Again, just brainstorming here.

I think I do like CoH better than WoW, even though, at times, the urge to play a Tauren overwhelms me (although I don't have an account no more; kinda hard to meet folks or a good guild on that game given my shy nature). CoH is more casual, if you ever DO play a game like WoW, it's always "keep up with the Jonses" in a never-ending cycle, meaning, you feel pressure to be at relatively the same level as your friends and if they overly outlevel you, you can't play with them no more. Also, the item grabs, while alright, get tedious with so many of the same weapons such as "+2563 chain of charismatic Weaving Intent" or whatever they got going. Mind you, I do like Item collecting but even with instanced dungreons, it losses some magic when "everyone" has their own version of your item.

Actually, I would like to see more GM events, even personalized ones with Super groups. These could be some rewards, but admittedly, hard to put forward for staff. I think there are more RPers on CoH. I never met many on WoW, although they *must* be somewhere. The only thing I remember close to being RP in WoW are the newbie areas where someone would make a character, strip off all their clothes, and yell out or whisper favors for sex. For some reason, this tended to happen more on the Human Alliance side with Paladins, which may very well be a reason I tend to stay away from the Allaince (besides Night Elf).

Also, even though I have played pretty much since the "beginning", I have yet to have a character reach 50 yet. Yes, a bit disconcerting at this point, but I tend to play characters here and there or I tend to play casually...maybe too casually. I still have hope to reach 50 someday for a few characters, but really, this game does not require it as much as others. Such a driving force does get people interested daily in a game, but I fear maybe too interested. Now, I have spent hours on certain games that most "normal" folk would call insane, but I know I am easily eclipsed by other's playtime. I try to keep my other interests alive and keep my real friendships going, especially since I tend to be a bit of a loner. It just surprises me that some people are still surprised at my hours of gametime when I personally see/know so many others who have forgotten the lessons of Star Trek :Next Gen. (The lessons being, don't stay couped up on the holodeck for so long or let it replace your real life ).

So does this post lead anywhere? Perhaps not, but I say if you can still incorporate the "casual" draw of CoH/CoV, you will still have many fans since many other games do the "Jonses Ladder" all too much. It is one of the main reasons I am a bit by talk of superhero games by DC and Marvel; I can see it may become a drudgery to level up or improve your skill on ultraweave super tights just so you get some XP for giving the Hulk super-stretch pants. Still, another part of what draws folks is frankly, this is a relatively non-explored genre for Online Games (Okay, Gold, I am rambling off-topic ;P ). But, come to think about it, maybe some new content would be good for this game, namely space/galactic content. (See! I told you, the reader, I wasn't rambling *too* far off-topic!! ) Something like patrolling space sectors and enforcing alien justice would be nice at this point in time. Heck, we have alien arch-types that are unlockable, why not incorporate them and the society more into the game world? (Arisians, Oans, or any other high-falooting galactic corp/assymbley versus the villianous galactic pirate guild!) I think this would be a nice fertile area to add into the game, among many other things.

More ramblings later.

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Gold Rush

[RedSwitchblade]

I believe there should be several level 50 TFs that are not only cool, but advantageous too.

Idea:

Mission Computer: Epic SG Task Forces

1) Stop the Sky Raiders from detonating the Faultline dam

--You have a series of long missions culminating in a huge outdoor confrontation in Faultline with tons of enemies and Sky Raider constructs trying to disable the dam. On a timer, so failable, with an end-run cutscene for both winning and losing.

Winning nets you a badge and your SG a 5% resistance increase. (Not stackable if completed twice) You also obtain a temporary power, the Skyraider Explosives, which have 10 uses and are a ranged attack akin to the LRM Rocket.

2) Devouring Earth raise a massive earth spire near Talos!

--After a few missions against the DE (In areas like Eden and the Trial area) you discover that a small island outside Talos is being targeted for accelerated growth and if successful, will create a large breach in the warwalls. Final mission includes a large island which you must fight to the apparatus and destroy it.

Winning nets you a badge and your SG a minor Regen bonus. You also obtain a temporary power, an anchored healing tree. (10 uses)

3) Freakshow Destruction Derby!

--After a string of bizzare mayhem-esque mission involving Freakshow leads you to become kidnapped and placed center stage in one of the craziest events ever conceived: The Freakshow Destruction Derby! Locked in a large underground colosseum, teams upon teams of Freakshow will swarm at you for the chance to slay you and become the annual "Pwn3rmax"! If all team members die at once, the mission is failed.

Winning gets you a badge and your SG gets a 5% damage increase (Not stackable with multiple victories). You also obtain a temporary power, 5 summonable Freakshow minion!

4) Circle of Thorns attempt to accelerate Armageddon!

--After being thrust into some fierce missions to liberate the CoT from Oranbega, a defeated Ruin Mage drops a book and mutters about the coming of Joklhaups. Raiding three libraries afterward, you discover that there is a nexus of magical energy near the Rogue Isles that could open a portal to the netherworld! Racing to this remote destination, you discover that you're too late, and you've been wrong all along! After discovering the tunnel to the ritual site, you realize the passage is getting very hot... and that the Circle hope to aggravate the Earth itself, causing it to combine with the spirts of the other side and unleash firey doom upon the world!

Winning means that you get a badge and a temporary power (5 Summonable Magma Demons -not Igneous-) and your SG gets a a 5% xp boost!

I know some of these ideas aren't balanced, but theyre just ideas

[Rael]

Great ideas Red, I lovem all!

[Grae Knight]

Those are very good Red. The type of stuff I think the devs should look into. Much like the Cathedral of Pain trial.

[Lady Wonder]

Oh darn it Red! I was hoping that was the real deal ... great ideas

Hmm, endgame. I guess its different for everyone. Personally I don't do many missions or solo. I love to team up though. At 50 I didn't know what else to do with LW so I decided to create an SG which is really keeping me busy daily. Base building, recruiting, SG business stuff. I haven't even looked into creating alts or even playing the only one other alt I have. The thing with CoH/CoV is that anything is possible and can happen, there's no restriction on imagination, especially in a superhero universe. Sure, some missions may be repetitive or similar, but I think the social interaction differs totally from WoW (which I have played as well) and other mmos. Thats what made me come back after trying 5 others. If the devs ever, add and rehash in-game content like Dark Age of Camelot did.... I can only imagine and hope for a better future of City of Heroes.

Plus I think CoX has the best looking toons in any mmo out there

[Noble]

There is no endgame in CoH. Hammy sucks.

[Grae Knight]

Wow Noble, sucha deep and thought-provoking post.

The notion of "no end-game content" is very subjective. It all depends on your particular definition of end-game content. I have reached 50 twice and I no doubt would have several more if it wasn't for all the end-game content I am involved with.

PvP: For me this is end-game content. I don't seriously get into PvP with my characters until level 50. By that time they have all their enhancement slots and powers and can PvP at any level chosen. I even take pride in trying to use respecs and come up with the best build I can.

RP: I don't really start role-playing until level 50. By that time I know who and what my character is so it makes it eaiser. I don't have the overwelming desire to do missions and get xp

Hamidon: Yes it is end-game and repeatable as if Recluse's Strike Force. Not everyone may like it but it is what it is. I like Hami Raids personally.

SGs: Got to agree with Lady Wonder. Supergroups are one of the best things this game has going for it and I spend alot of time managing mine. It keeps me in the game day after day. Not necessarily end-game content as constant content.

I would love to see more stuff though like Red mentioned. SG based raid missions would be awesome.

[Noble]

It's not so much the raids I dislike, because I've never been on one. Having dial-up in the past was my main reason. However, it's the look of the creature. The concept is awsome. The creatures appearance looks like something that was born during the early ages of graphic design on computers back in the early 1980s.

[Grae Knight]

Originally Posted by Noble

It's not so much the raids I dislike, because I've never been on one. Having dial-up in the past was my main reason. However, it's the look of the creature. The concept is awsome. The creatures appearance looks like something that was born during the early ages of graphic design on computers back in the early 1980s.

Ok, got to agree with you there. I was kind of unimpressed when I saw it as well.

My theory on Hamidon's look is for performance issues for some systems. If they made it a huge lumbering creature, it may be even more difficult for 100+ players to join together to defeat it due to disconnects and even worse lag. I lack any technical knowledge so I can not be 100% certain.