The Rolly-Polly Repository

[Nerfed]

Originally Posted by The Widowed

Why do you say that? I'll tell you why: You like Duke's personality. But wise cracks and a cheap cigar won't win the battle. The Doom Marine is all 100% grim, stoic, determined work ethic. He doesn't have time to throw out snappy one-liners because he's too busy wading into the herds of Hell and kicking ass.

Besides, what has Duke Nukem done lately? Ooh, nice trailer. Gee, wouldn't it be nice if we could actually play it?

See? The Doom Marine and his kill-crazy work ethic run circles around Duke, in-game and out-of-game. Speak not to me of the inferior Duke Nukem.

Originally Posted by The Widowed

Ah, not a fan of the strong but silent protagonist, I see. But, to poke at the flaw in your reasoning, verbal razzle-dazzle does not a master tactician make. The Doom Marine works because he's a tried and true archetype. There's no flash, no glamour, no pearly teeth and cool shades. He's all muscle, body armor, shotguns, heavy combat boots and pain. Therefore, he will get the job done, time and time again.

And as a bonus, the Doom Marine's savvy enough to wear subdued green tones into a combat zone...none of this silly "bright red tank top and blue jeans" nonsense that would make him stand out like a starshell at a thousand yards.

Your rationalization of Duke throwing out one-liners and the Doom marine being too busy with his work ethic at killing doesn't work for me. One could just as easily say that the strong silent type is just as much a "personality" that you and others are a fan of and that the quiet personality doesn't equate to being a better killer... and I could just as easily say that Duke is better because he can kill aliens, travel through time, and otherwise kick ass and do it with a smile, a smoke, and the witty rapartee. The Doom marine just gets by on killing... not exactly a sharp thinker, in my opinion.

[iggy880]

Originally Posted by The Widowed

Ah, not a fan of the strong but silent protagonist, I see. But, to poke at the flaw in your reasoning, verbal razzle-dazzle does not a master tactician make. The Doom Marine works because he's a tried and true archetype. There's no flash, no glamour, no pearly teeth and cool shades. He's all muscle, body armor, shotguns, heavy combat boots and pain. Therefore, he will get the job done, time and time again.

And as a bonus, the Doom Marine's savvy enough to wear subdued green tones into a combat zone...none of this silly "bright red tank top and blue jeans" nonsense that would make him stand out like a starshell at a thousand yards.

Well, Duke is pretty much self-trained and self-armed showing a superior combat prowess and capability to learn

[The Widowed]

Originally Posted by iggy880

Well, Duke is pretty much self-trained and self-armed showing a superior combat prowess and capability to learn

So what you're saying is that Duke Nukem is working off his own experiences gathered in his own lifetime alone, whereas the Doom Marine is drawing on a vast pool of tactical training and combat experience rooted in centuries of trial-and-error, through which the tasks of devising, analyzing and perfecting so many tactical insights from so many crack troops--and weeding out the philosophies, techniques and methods which do not work--have been refined and concentrated through Darwinian law?

The Doom Marine has a Craftsman mechanic's caddy full of tools to draw on, while Duke is working with a crescent wrench and a ball peen hammer. Explain to me how being comparatively undertrained makes Duke Nukem the superior combatant.

[Nerfed]

Originally Posted by The Widowed

So what you're saying is that Duke Nukem is working off his own experiences gathered in his own lifetime alone, whereas the Doom Marine is drawing on a vast pool of tactical training and combat experience rooted in centuries of trial-and-error, through which the tasks of devising, analyzing and perfecting so many tactical insights from so many crack troops--and weeding out the philosophies, techniques and methods which do not work--have been refined and concentrated through Darwinian law?

The Doom Marine has a Craftsman mechanic's caddy full of tools to draw on, while Duke is working with a crescent wrench and a ball peen hammer. Explain to me how being comparatively undertrained makes Duke Nukem the superior combatant.

Using that cresent wrench & ball peen hammer and superior talent will win out against the unimaginative thinker with that full suite of Craftsman tools. The fact that Duke kicks that much ass without the all the military training, methodology, and philosophy just says that he's better at the job than the guy who needs that stuff. The marine is a nobody... he's a lackwit that's no better than any other space marine... he does what he's told because that's what he was told to do.

I'd put my faith in the wisecracking natural-born butt-kicker over the trained killer any day.

[iggy880]

Originally Posted by The Widowed

So what you're saying is that Duke Nukem is working off his own experiences gathered in his own lifetime alone, whereas the Doom Marine is drawing on a vast pool of tactical training and combat experience rooted in centuries of trial-and-error, through which the tasks of devising, analyzing and perfecting so many tactical insights from so many crack troops--and weeding out the philosophies, techniques and methods which do not work--have been refined and concentrated through Darwinian law?

The Doom Marine has a Craftsman mechanic's caddy full of tools to draw on, while Duke is working with a crescent wrench and a ball peen hammer. Explain to me how being comparatively undertrained makes Duke Nukem the superior combatant.

I'm saying Duke appears to be adaptive, and proactive, he has no real requirement to save the world. The marine is ordered, Duke takes on a threat by choice, he looks for a fight, and succeeds. Also, he physically has more strength then the marine.

Undertrained does not be underskilled. I mean, look at the world around you, some can pick up a violin and master it, whats to say a man can't pick up a gun and master it with at least the same efficiency as that of a trained soldier? I mean some just have the ability to do such things. I mean, anyone can shoot a gun, not everyone can play an instrument, so if someone can have that kinda skill instantly on an instrument, whats to say he can't master combat and guns just as well.

[WingedAvenger]

I like how this thread has turned into a Duke Nukem vs. Doom Marine Deathmatch.

[The Widowed]

Also, the Doom movie never happened. It. Never. Happened.

[Nerfed]

I wouldn't even call it a match. Duke Nukem is clearly superior.

[The Widowed]

Originally Posted by Nerfed

Using that cresent wrench & ball peen hammer and superior talent will win out against the unimaginative thinker with that full suite of Craftsman tools. The fact that Duke kicks that much ass without the all the military training, methodology, and philosophy just says that he's better at the job than the guy who needs that stuff. The marine is a nobody... he's a lackwit that's no better than any other space marine... he does what he's told because that's what he was told to do.

I'd put my faith in the wisecracking natural-born butt-kicker over the trained killer any day.

Originally Posted by iggy880

I'm saying Duke appears to be adaptive, and proactive, he has no real requirement to save the world. The marine is ordered, Duke takes on a threat by choice, he looks for a fight, and succeeds. Also, he physically has more strength then the marine.

Undertrained does not be underskilled. I mean, look at the world around you, some can pick up a violin and master it, whats to say a man can't pick up a gun and master it with at least the same efficiency as that of a trained soldier? I mean some just have the ability to do such things. I mean, anyone can shoot a gun, not everyone can play an instrument, so if someone can have that kinda skill instantly on an instrument, whats to say he can't master combat and guns just as well.

Ah, how sad that both of you assume that, just because the Doom Marine is backed by military weaponry and centuries of refined infantry training, the Doom Marine is utterly inflexible and unadaptable in his approaches.

But remember the Cyberdemon?

In the Doom Marine's original encounters with the Cyberdemon, the Cyberdemon could be harmed with any munition...small-calibre bullets, shotgun loads, rockets, plasma bolts and so on. Yet the Cyberdemon was a very formidable enemy, even capable of toppling the Spider Masterminds who led the hordes of Hell to Earth (as it could be proven in Doom 2).

But over time, the Cyberdemon has evolved into an even more formidable enemy, refining his infernal essence to the point that no mortal weaponry may harm him anymore. Even the titanic power of the BFG is but the nip of a flea to him now. Only an alien artifact has the wherewithal to strike the Cyberdemon down.

And the Marines don't receive any training in the ways of wielding alien artifacts. None. Zero.

But that didn't stop the Doom Marine from figuring out how to use the Soul Cube, did it?

For that matter, the Marines' regimens surely don't include remedial hand-to-hand training on the proper methods for wielding a chainsaw...but that didn't stop the Doom Marine from buzzing and ripping his way through three major Doom games (and about a dozen console spin-offs, and countless mods) with a gas-powered beast that would make the minds at Stihl envious, did it?

And I'd like to see proof that Duke Nukem is physically stronger than the Doom Marine. When was the last time that Duke grabbed a chainsaw and sliced his way through a dozen large cacodemons (as seen in...what was it, the Sloughs of Despair in Doom 1, Episode 3)? Without his arms getting tired? I bet Duke can't even handle a chainsaw, let alone slice a mancubus in half with it.

Hail to the real king, baby.

Originally Posted by Nerfed

I wouldn't even call it a match. Duke Nukem is clearly superior.

Yeah...like how a riced-out Gremlin is superior to a Dodge Charger.

[iggy880]

A chainsaw, as you said is remedial, there is no training needed, the use is common sense. Also, Duke uses energy weapons, equally advanced, as well as a jetpack, where's the marine's jetpack? Thats right he doesn't have one.