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The Widowed
03-10-2007, 05:27 AM
Most of you probably already know my views on the new World of Darkness, and those views aren't all that flattering. Two years later, I'm still married to the old World of Darkness and I still see the new series as being unnecessary. I can't look at Vampire: The Requiem without thinking of Vampire: The Masquerade. I can't look at Werewolf: The Forsaken without musing on all the good times I had with Werewolf: The Apocalypse. And I certainly can't look at Mage: The Awakening without pondering how profoundly it pales to the vast potential, labyrinthine intrigue and sheer replayability which was laid to rest when White Wolf killed off Mage: The Ascension. ("How dare they cast aside the vast Orwellian nightmare that is or was the Technocracy?!?")

And, regretably, it's necessary that you buy two corebooks--the new World of Darkness corebook and the Something: The Whatever corebook of your choice--just to get a basic no-frills game going, a stark contrast to the old World of Darkness, where all you needed was a $30 copy of the Something: The Whatever corebook, a bunch of ten-siders and (optionally) a bunch of photocopied character sheets to play a game right off the cuff. No wonder the sales babe at Borders agreed with me that sales of the new WoD aren't even close to the old WoD's profitability. I'm still getting used to the new Attributes and Abilities myself. ("Resolve? What, Willpower checks aren't good enough for us anymore?")

But if there's one saving grace to the new WoD, they finally gave us our freakin' Frankensteins.

Sure, Mage: The Ascension paid lip service to the idea of Frankenstein creatures by claiming that they were often created by the Sons of Ether...yet the creations were, for all intents and purposes, nothing more than mages with weird backstories. They were honestly no different than naturally born people: No inherent "racial" merits, flaws, adjustments, whatever.

So that treatment of the classic patchwork man was kind of a disappointment for me. I love Frankenstein. I've read Mary Shelley's book from cover to cover at least twice in my lifetime. It's one of my all-time favorite literary works, if not the favorite. The book touches down on some pretty deep topics: The prospect of life without soul, science's usurpation of divinity, responsibility and consequence for one's actions, the notion that hatred is learned and not innate, et cetera...pretty thought-provoking stuff, even moreso in this age of genetic science and unchecked technological sprawl. And I still snort derisively whenever I see how the Frankenstein monster was portrayed in the Whale and Hammer films, a complete 180-degree turn from the nimble, intelligent, eloquent and well-spoken Adam Frankenstein depicted in the novel.

Yes indeed, it's about time we got some respectable Frankensteins.


http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/Promethean.jpg
True to form: The understated cover art is the hallmark of any World of Darkness book, whether new or old.


http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanBackCover.jpg
Another World of Darkness hallmark: The cryptically descriptive flavor text on the back cover.


http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanSheetSm.jpg (http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanSheet.jpg)
Out with the old...: Man, it's just not the same kind of character sheet anymore. (Clickie.)


http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanBorderArt.jpg
Them bones, them bones: As you can guess from both covers and this section of page border, electricity and human body parts are common themes in the artwork of Promethean: The Created.


The complete title of Mary Shelley's world-famous novel is "Frankenstein: The Modern Prometheus", which in turn is a reference to the act of stealing something from the gods and bringing it to mankind, a gift marred with tragic results. Prometheus stole fire from the gods, brought it to mankind, showed the people how to make more fire and was punished by having a vulture chow down on his liver everyday. Victor Frankenstein stole the secrets for creating life, instilled that life in a composite body and was punished when his creation killed or destroyed everything that he held dear, a punishment which culminated in Victor's own doom when he threw himself into the vengeful Ahabian quest of destroying said creation. Hence, these dead people given life through unnatural means in the World of Darkness are known as Prometheans. They are not undead, but the essence of life which drives them is a shallow, unwholesome and unnatural one.

The game is not all about Frankenstein's monster, of course. Plenty of myths and legends throughout human history speak of life created from dead or unliving matter; The story of Victor Frankenstein and his creation is just one of them. Just as vampires stem from Clans, Prometheans stem from Lineages, each named for the common Progenitor of that Lineage and each creating its Prometheans through certain prescribed methods, conditions and procedures. Countless minor Lineages exist, but the game focuses on five major Lineages, each of which is identified with one of the five alchemical Elements and one of the five alchemical Humours; Even with the mystic or arcane Lineages, alchemy remains a constant facet of this game.


Frankenstein: The youngest Lineage at less than 150 years of age, but no less potent than the others. Named for Frankenstein's monster (also known as Adam Frankenstein), the tragic antagonist of Mary Shelley's novel. Like their Progenitor, Frankensteins are created from composite bodies assembled from the strongest, largest, prettiest, most durable or otherwise most desirable body parts harvested from several corpses, then given life through electrical and chemical means. Individually, the body parts may be attractive or ideal, but together they form a disturbingly warped, mismatched, asymetrical or otherwise imperfect whole. Such bodies commonly feature metallic, inorganic or otherwise inhuman bits and pieces as well: A leftover electrode here, a rivet protruding from a bone and breaching the skin there, a ring of copper staples securing the Frankenstein's face to his skull, subdermal leather straps holding the rib cage together, whatever. Though the memories of all Prometheans are blank slates at creation, a Frankenstein's individual body parts may at times mimic certain habits or actions which they performed in their previous lives. Element: Fire (represented through the Frankenstein's animating electricity). Humour: Choleric (as Frankensteins are given to acts of spite, vengeance or ambition, especially when offended).

Galateid: Named for Galatea, the perfectly beautiful woman whom Pygmalion crafted from a perfectly beautiful statue...at least according to the myth. As one might expect, the Galateids tell a different story. Unlike Frankensteins, Galateids are crafted from a single corpse, the corpse of a superbly beautiful or handsome person at that. Once given life, the Galateid becomes even more beautiful...too beautiful, in fact, to the point of becoming quite alien in appearance. They come to resemble marble statues or china dolls more than human beings, their skin becomes less elastic (keeping impressions in the skin well after the objects which made the impressions are removed) and their breaths linger visibly in the air regardless of how warm or cold the ambient temperature is. Galateids are usually created to be spouses or lovers, but the extreme reactions of a spurned or betrayed Galateid lover can be frightening to behold. Element: Air (represented in the Divine Breath which the creator bestows unto the Galateid at creation). Humour: Sanguine (driving Galateids to be more amorous and courageous).

Osiran: Named for Osiris, the Egyptian god who was killed by Set and resurrected by Isis, losing his genitalia in the process. Like this Progenitor, each Osiran is missing a piece of his or her body; The process of creating an Osiran involves cleansing the corpse of a noble or a leader with a certain mixture of aromatic herbs and river water, chopping the corpse into thirteen pieces, discarding the least of the pieces (though the creator's definition of "least" may vary) and reassembling the rest. A benevolent creator will deliberately keep the missing piece small--a finger, a toe or part of an ear--while a more malicious or spiteful creator may cost the Osiran a hand, a foot, a nose or a chunk of rib cage. Still other creators remove the corpse's genitals in homage to Osiris, a removal which, obviously, is easily done on male Osirans but becomes problematic with females. With their commanding presences and levelheaded reasoning, Osirans could be seen as the equals of Clan Ventrue among the Prometheans, yet with their missing pieces and hence their status as "incomplete" beings, they are anything but content with existence. Element: Water (seen in the watery birth of the Osiran). Humour: Phlegmatic (lending Osirans calmness and emotional restraint).

Tammuz: Named for the Babylonian figure who was buried in clay and resurrected by Ishtar, a legend which is seen as a forerunner to the Jewish legend of the Golem. A Tammuz is created by placing a written word of power beneath the tongue of the corpse of a large or stocky person, burying the corpse in clay or damp earth and waiting for the new Tammuz to burrow his or her way back out...days, weeks, months, however long it takes. In the process, the Tammuz assumes the strength and other properties of the surrounding earth, and emerges as a hybrid of flesh physically merged with clay. Most Tammuz are created to be slaves, serving their creators or other masters as guardians or laborers. Tammuz are hardly mindless, however, and freedom is a common aspiration for them. Of all the Lineages, only the Frankensteins can rival the Tammuz in terms of physical prowess and sheer size. Element: Earth (seen in both the Tammuz's birth and the Tammuz' appearance). Humour: Melancholic (as Tammuz are often patient and introspective, but irritable when disturbed).

Ulgan: Named for the Siberian shaman or deity who entered the spirit world, was torn to pieces by spirits and was reassembled without a soul, this Lineage also claims a dual origin with Orpheus, who suffered a similar fate. Each Ulgan comes from the corpse of a psychic or other spiritually attuned person; The corpse is drawn into the Twilight--the spirit world--and specially prepared for a mystic rite in which the sacrifice of a live animal attracts baneful spirits who tear the corpse into pieces; The creator then reassembles the spiritually tainted corpse and brings the newly awakened Ulgan back into the living world. Ulgans are gifted with powers over the spirit world yet typically see no joy in the advantage and despise what they are, as the same awareness of spirits and ectoplasm also make each Ulgan acutely aware of the absence of his or her own soul, a void which screams to be filled and causes endless torment for the Ulgan. Element: Spirit (which is at least half of everything the Ulgan is or does). Humour: Ectoplasmic (leading the Ulgan towards intuition, instinct and awareness).


http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanAutoRez.jpg
Schroedinger's corpse: Just because an Osiran is dead doesn't mean that the Osiran will stay dead.


Along with the standard perks and advantages of being a Promethean, each Lineage comes with a Bestowment, a supernatural advantage native to that Lineage. Frankensteins possess colossal physical strength, Galateids can charm or mesmerize people at a glance, Osirans can bring themselves or others back from the dead (though this Bestowment must be "recharged" with Experience after each use), Tammuz possess unyielding resistance to harm and Ulgans may perceive and interact with both the living world and the spirit world equally.


http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanVitality.jpg
Shoulders of Atlas: Frankensteins are reputed for their vast reserves of physical strength; Frankensteins versed in the Vitality Transmutation, doubly so.


What Disciplines are to Kindred, Transmutations are to Prometheans. With Transmutations, Prometheans can channel Pyros--the unquenchable Divine Fire which fuels the semblance of life--into a broad variety of supernatural effects. Depending on which school they come from, Transmutations can be used to alter the chemical compositions of objects at a touch (even so far as turning flesh into stone), enhancing the functions of their bodies (including regeneration, allowing wounds to close and mend as swiftly as they're opened), moving unnoticed though unearthly stealth and illusion, gathering knowledge from thin air, creating new or redundant organs within their bodies, animating and controlling inanimate objects, birthing homunculi from the Promethean's own flesh or blasting objects of the Promethean's ire with bolts of electricity.

In their heart of hearts, Prometheans seek to obtain what their creators denied them: Humanity. And the five Refinements lie along the road to becoming human. A Promethean's Refinement reflects the general attitude with which that Promethean views his unnatural nature, the world's reactions to that nature, the Promethean's role within that world and the Promethean's understanding of the humanity which he covets. True to the alchemical theme of P:tC, each Refinement is named for a metal: Aurum (Refinement of Gold), Cuprum (Refinement of Copper), Ferrum (Refinement of Iron), Mercurius (Refinement of Quicksilver) and Stannum (Refinement of Tin).

http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanAurum.jpg
Aurum Prometheans believe that through mimicking people can they understand people, and through understanding people can they become people...

http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanFerrum.jpg
...Ferrum Prometheans endure the world's slings and arrows--physical, emotional or otherwise--with the same practiced stoicism and resolve...

http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanStannum.jpg
...and Stannum Prometheans have no qualms against hating a world which hates them, lashing out with great vengeance and fury if assailed.


Like Clans and Disciplines, Refinements offer discounts on experience costs to increase certain Transmutations; The reclusive and introspective Cuprum Prometheans can more easily master Transmutations which augment the self--such as Metamorphosis and Sensorium--while the vindictive Stannum Prometheans can quickly develop prowess with such wrathful Transmutations as Disquietism and Electrification. Unlike the Kindred's Clans, a Promethean can shift through several Refinements in her lifetime. She might begin her life regarding the human race with wide-eyed fascination and compassion (Aurum), turn bitter and resentful towards the entire world after too many attempts to gain companionship end in terrified rejections and hateful attacks (Stannum) and finally seek comfort in more intellectual pursuits, vowing that if the world will not change itself and accept her, she can still try to change the world around her more to her liking (Mercurius).

There is a sixth Refinement--Centimani, the Refinement of Flux--but it exists in direct opposition of the other five, revelling in the Promethean's Torment rather than controlling or combating it. Only the most monstrous Prometheans would follow Centimani, and the majority of Prometheans--duly horrified or angered at what the Centimani Promethean is, does or represents--tend to honor a "kill on sight" policy with the Centimani and otherwise regard them with open hostility. Among their crimes, Centimani have been known to create and/or actively ally themselves with Pandorans, nemeses to all Prometheans.


http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanPandoran.jpg
Oopsie: A Pandoran is an abomination created when an attempt to create a Promethean goes horribly, horribly wrong.


If you think the Prometheans have it rough, try being a Pandoran. They exist as failed Prometheans, who exist as humanity's rejects, so being the rejects from a race of rejects couldn't possibly be good for one's self-esteem. They're rife with Torment, they're consumed with hatred for mankind, they're stirred with malicious envy for the Prometheans and they're always hungry for a taste of the Divine Fire...so hungry that they will ambush and kill Prometheans in attempts to consume the Pyros which drives the Promethean's mind and body. That the Centimani Prometheans bear enough command over Torment to keep company with the fleshy devils who would otherwise turn on them and devour them isn't lost on the "good guy" Prometheans.

There are five overarching Mockeries (races or families) of Pandorans, one for each Lineage of the Prometheans...a darkened mirror image of the same Lineage from which they fell, come to that. And yes, the Pandorans have their own Transmutations as well. They're not to be taken lightly, despite the whole rejects-of-rejects thing.


http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanDisquiet.jpg
Monster, go home: A lone Tammuz (apparently named Hank) encounters the effects of Disquiet firsthand.


Another scourge the Prometheans face is Disquiet. The Divine Fire will conceal a Promethean's true appearance from mortal onlookers...to an extent. From a distance, onlookers will simply see a Frankenstein as a tall person with an imposing stature; Only when they come within arm's reach will the Frankenstein's scars, sutures, disproportionate features and pokey metal bits become evident...quite a shock for somebody who casually bumps into a Frankenstein on the subway. The arcane disguise will also be dropped if the Promethean wields certain visible Transmutations, recharges his Pyros (ie. a Frankenstein grabbing the subway's third rail and regaining Pyros from the electrical surge) or wills the disguise to drop for whatever reason.

However, no matter how well the Promethean tries to pass himself off as being perfectly human, the real humans will eventually sense something intangibly wrong about the Promethean. That "wrongness" is Disquiet, which emanates from the Promethean and is caused by the Promethean's soulless, unnatural state. And the longer the Promethean sticks around, the worse the Disquiet gets. It begins with mere avoidance and snowballs from there. The mortals' exact reaction to Disquiet may be influenced by several factors, including the Promethean's Lineage; A crowd's negative reaction to a Frankenstein's freakishness could lead to the usual torch-and-pitchfork mob running the Frankenstein out of town, whereas a female Galateid would incite awkward rejections or panicked flight among the men (intimidated by her alien beauty) and malicious attempts to disfigure or ruin the Galateid's appearance--or even sudden, murderous fits of envy--among the women influenced by the Galateid's Disquiet.

Landscapes can also fall under Disquiet if the Promethean stays in one place too long. Grass starts to die, buildings start to crumble, machines start to fall apart and the end result is a Wasteland, a small region poisoned by the Promethean's presence. Though Wastelands are claimed to have certain beneficial effects on Prometheans, many of them would rather not deal with the desolation and take to a nomadic lifestyle. Besides, they're less likely to run afoul of the aforementioned angry mobs that way.


http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanPilgrimage.jpg
Easier than pregnancy: A Frankenstein works on his offspring.


Prometheans can only be created by either Demiurges (rare mortals gifted with the necessary power and insight to plant the seed of life in a Promethean) or other Prometheans. Victor Frankenstein was a Demiurge; He created the first of the Frankenstein Lineage. Years after Victor's death and a failed suicide attempt, Adam Frankenstein tired of his solitude and created others like himself. But, true to his curse, his progeny rejected him and spread out across the world, creating other Frankensteins in turn.

Oddly enough, part of the Pilgrimage through which Prometheans hope to become wholly human involves gaining a complete understanding of what they are...and that can only be understood after the Promethean creates another Promethean, hence bringing the whole shebang full circle. Some Prometheans stop after creating one, some create several. Some Prometheans even turn away from their quest for humanity at this point, unwilling to create a new sentient being who would suffer as they themselves had. This can be especially hard on the Tammuz, who realize that in order to create a new Tammuz, that Tammuz must be consigned to the same servitude and misery which the creator despises.

So all in all, these reasons and more are why Promethean: The Created is a pretty good book in my...well, book. And there's another pleasant surprise at the end of the book, too:

http://www.tritonius.com/tmp/PrometheanSurprise.jpg

Just when I thought White Wolf had pushed that one from their memories for good, my faith in them is resuscitated.

Well played, Promethean. You may just convert me to the new World of Darkness yet. :)

Akamaz
03-12-2007, 09:23 PM
so widds, when ya gonna hook us up with a PBEM of this bad boy?

Druid
03-13-2007, 02:01 AM
I am indeed intrigued. Possibilty of an e-mail game with some Guru's?

Kinetix
03-13-2007, 03:35 AM
<hijack> How long does it take to write these huge, multimedia posts?

Gold Rush
03-13-2007, 08:48 AM
<hijack> How long does it take to write these huge, multimedia posts?

I'll have to roughly "time" Wids when she does, but it can be hard to "catch" the post, because not all Wid's post are that long.

I can say it takes me awhile to write up a long post, not even including pictures that get thrown into a Wid's post. Course, I don't do it often: My post count is fairly low.

================================================== =

Gold Rush

(Actually, she probably does a fair amount of pre-writing first in notepad and cut/pastes it all in the end. The actual time posts times I see in Wids' post, from her initial post to her edit, is about 16-17 minutes. I don't think Wid's would type *that* fast, but I could be wrong; I haven't calculated/counted her words and figured out the words per minute.

Actually, there are alot of large photos that take up a lot of the post, so it can't be too bad)

Druid
03-14-2007, 04:09 AM
So thanks to the magic of shareware, I've been checking out Promethean: The Created and one of it's sister books, Promethean: Pandoras Book (or something like that) and they make for good reads. I agree with Wid's here, very interesting. I like the inclusion of the other, similar myths that inspired Frankenstein. (although I don't agree with the comparison of Orpheus to the Ulgan's. He wasn't torn apart until later when he let the Maeneds get him.)

I like the book on the Pandorans a mite more though. *shrug* not sure why. Just interesting.

Kinetix
03-14-2007, 06:49 AM
I'll have to roughly "time" Wids when she does, but it can be hard to "catch" the post, because not all Wid's post are that long.

I can say it takes me awhile to write up a long post, not even including pictures that get thrown into a Wid's post. Course, I don't do it often: My post count is fairly low.

================================================== =

Gold Rush

(Actually, she probably does a fair amount of pre-writing first in notepad and cut/pastes it all in the end. The actual time posts times I see in Wids' post, from her initial post to her edit, is about 16-17 minutes. I don't think Wid's would type *that* fast, but I could be wrong; I haven't calculated/counted her words and figured out the words per minute.

Actually, there are alot of large photos that take up a lot of the post, so it can't be too bad)

Ah, also Wids is a dude.

Gold Rush
03-15-2007, 02:42 AM
Ah, also Wids is a dude.

You know, I was trying to type out my post to be "gender-nuetral" but at the time, my mind was elsewhere. :P

A bit off-topic, but not sure where this was found out, but I've seen it several times; this goes a bit against one post I remember (Cyber-double dating another Guru and winding up here). Actually, I have been wanting to ask straight many months even before all this began. Mainly it's just Wids' post, like this one. I mean, really, in general, Wids' knowledge on certain subjects kinda made me think she was too cool to be a girl. (Sorry gals, I know there are women who like the three stooges and other things that seem male-dominated, but I can't find many!) :p Although the breadth of Wid's posts and subject kinda weighed the other way. Even her interest in this WoD suggests being a female (since there are plenty of females that like Vampires and I've seen plenty of fine-looking WoD Larpers when I've noticed a game), but her breadth of knowledge...well, to be generous, could go either way; I have seen some female DMs that seem to share the same amount of knowledge and enthuisiasm.

In any event, just like the great revelations of certain Gurus of the past, this doesn't really *mean* nothing. Wids is Wids. The person you get to know is the same, unless you somehow fell madly in love with the cyber-image of said other person, which could get uncomfortable for a bit. I have no axes to grind against Wids or most Gurus. I just enjoy reading posts, playing CoH, interacting, and what-not with you folks. Although I've been on the net for quite awhile, I've rarely found a community of friends to hang out with most of the time. They either fade or I get the wanderlust...then they fade. So, just glad to be here.

Not really a rant, but I guess, since I try to be cool with a person's wishes of suppossed gender; sometimes it is polite and good manners to let the other party think they have you fooled, even though you are not, if you understand that logic. But that may be just me. :)

Continue with your Frankenstien frank discussions. :)

================================================== ===

Gold Rush

Druid
03-15-2007, 03:03 AM
While I have no clue what the heck that above post was about, I wonder...


Where the heck is Wids? Waiting for him to get back here and respond to the thread that was started by him!

The Widowed
03-15-2007, 03:45 AM
Ah, also Wids is a dude.
Don't worry too much about Kin, Gold Rush. He's inexplicably fascinated with my sex for some reason. Or haven't you noticed how he's the first one (and/or the only one) to copy-and-paste his "Wids is a dude" posts? :p

Way back in 2004 and 2005, "Wids" was a couple; She was a fellow Vampire junkie (though my "junkiness" didn't stop with Vampire and I introduced her to the rest of the original WoD but she still favored her Kindred characters over her Verbena mage for some reason), she had a key to my apartment and she'd use my computer for damn near everything. She'd run the Widowed around every now and then (mostly whenever I had to leave the game and come back for whatever reason), she'd create her own Heroes and never level them past Level 4 or 5 or so before losing interest and eventually we broke up over her and some other guy she met through her job, but I'm not getting into that.

So when are we going to hear about your girlfriend, Kin? Hmmm? :P

So thanks to the magic of shareware, I've been checking out Promethean: The Created and one of it's sister books, Promethean: Pandoras Book (or something like that) and they make for good reads. I agree with Wid's here, very interesting. I like the inclusion of the other, similar myths that inspired Frankenstein. (although I don't agree with the comparison of Orpheus to the Ulgan's. He wasn't torn apart until later when he let the Maeneds get him.)
I know. Orpheus did venture into the spirit world (specifically, the Underworld where Hades reigned; Too bad he dropped the ball and didn't bring Persephone back with him) but he was already back in the land of the living by the time the Maenads ripped him limb from limb. Apparently, according to Promethean, his sundered corpse was reassembled and given the Divine Fire at some point. I guess it's a close enough account to qualify him as an Ulgan. :think:

I like the book on the Pandorans a mite more though. *shrug* not sure why. Just interesting.
Probably the same reason I enjoyed Werewolf's Book of the Wyrm and Freak Legion: It's always interesting to see how the bad guys live.

I am indeed intrigued. Possibilty of an e-mail game with some Guru's?
so widds, when ya gonna hook us up with a PBEM of this bad boy?
As soon as I get a new place to live, most likely. All of my bookshelves and my "doodle desk" with all of my campaign notes are in storage right now. One day, perhaps. One day.... :(

I dunno...I don't have much here with me right now, but I wonder if it is possible to hash something together. That's just the problem, though: I hate running half-assed campaigns. If I can't commit to a campaign and make it good, I'd rather not do it at all. Yeah, I don't know. Decisions, decisions.

Where the heck is Wids? Waiting for him to get back here and respond to the thread that was started by him!
You rang? :P

Druid
03-15-2007, 04:10 AM
I've actually been skimming alot of WoD books lately. Of the one's I have read through so far, I rate Promethean: The Created, Werewolf: The Apocalypse (Loved the focus on the different tribes and species, that still stand?) and Blood Dimmed Tides as my favorites.

Haven't read too much on either of the Mage books yet, and Vampires never were my thing.

I also read one book on the outcasts of all the groups. The Garou Ronin, the Castileti ( I think) Vampires, and the Hollow One's (Mage) That was an interesting read too.

Ack, too much interest forming. If it weren't for shareware I'd be even more broke.

The Widowed
03-15-2007, 05:09 AM
I've actually been skimming alot of WoD books lately. Of the one's I have read through so far, I rate Promethean: The Created, Werewolf: The Apocalypse (Loved the focus on the different tribes and species, that still stand?) and Blood Dimmed Tides as my favorites.
Ooh, Blood-Dimmed Tides! There's an underrated book. :)

I like it so much that my Changeling-Vampire crossover PBEM campaign ("Unquiet Waters") is about the player characters playing Merfolk and Murdhuacha in an alternate scenario where the Resurgence is still continuing over 30 years later, the reinvigorated Kithain have usurped control of most cities from the Camarilla, Kindred have been relegated to the role of second-class citizens and are strictly controlled and oppressed in any city overseen by the High Court and instigators from Clan Tremere decided to take vengeance on the Kithain by learning how to awaken and (possibly) control an ancient sea horror so that it would come forth and ravage the High Court cities nearest the ocean, reasoning "If we can't have the cities, no one can". Naturally, the Mer would be the first to suffer and perish if Leviathan's spawn were awakened from millenia of slumber beneath the ocean's floor, so the Merfolk and Murdhuacha forged an unsteady alliance 30 years ago at the counsel of soothsayers from both sides, and the Mer sunk an oceanliner in order to snatch humans and interbreed with them for a new generation of Mer who were more innately connected with the surface world so that they could venture onto the land, find the responsible party and thwart the awakening of the colossal sea monster before their 30 years were up. Even the one player who plays a Pooka is playing a Pooka who went down with the oceanliner as a child, so she grew up among the Merfolk in the deep and now has the potential to serve as a diplomat for the landwalking Kithain who might be less than open or trusting with these alien changelings who are just now coming back from the ocean's depths in force after being lost for so many centuries....

I really need to get that campaign back out of dormancy and jumpstart it. :(

Haven't read too much on either of the Mage books yet, and Vampires never were my thing.
Mage: The Ascension is still my all-time favorite. It's definitely a thinker's game, and philosophy plays a huge part of Mage's backdrop, along with morality issues (including the ever-popular price of hubris) and the "East meets West" clash between new-era science and old-school magic, most notably manifest in the shadow war between the Council of Nine and the Technocracy.

I also read one book on the outcasts of all the groups. The Garou Ronin, the Castileti ( I think) Vampires, and the Hollow One's (Mage) That was an interesting read too.
Caitiff, you mean...the Kindred's outcasts. Unless the outcasts happen to hang out with the Sabbat, in which case they're called Panders instead. :)

And Hollow Ones can be fun, though I still prefer Traditions. One player I used to have was one of the most annoying guys I've ever met, but he played a halfway decent Hollow One. He never used his magick, however (though he was full of Entropy, which has a bazillion Coincidental applications), and he usually relied on the Daughter of Ether and the Verbena to hook him up. He wouldn't have been able to kill that Crinos-form Black Spiral Dancer if the Etherite hadn't turned all the nails loaded into his nailgun into silver, for one.... :think:

Vendel
03-15-2007, 06:59 AM
You know, I was trying to type out my post to be "gender-nuetral" but at the time, my mind was elsewhere. :P

A bit off-topic, but not sure where this was found out, but I've seen it several times; this goes a bit against one post I remember (Cyber-double dating another Guru and winding up here). Actually, I have been wanting to ask straight many months even before all this began. Mainly it's just Wids' post, like this one. I mean, really, in general, Wids' knowledge on certain subjects kinda made me think she was too cool to be a girl. (Sorry gals, I know there are women who like the three stooges and other things that seem male-dominated, but I can't find many!) :p Although the breadth of Wid's posts and subject kinda weighed the other way. Even her interest in this WoD suggests being a female (since there are plenty of females that like Vampires and I've seen plenty of fine-looking WoD Larpers when I've noticed a game), but her breadth of knowledge...well, to be generous, could go either way; I have seen some female DMs that seem to share the same amount of knowledge and enthuisiasm.

In any event, just like the great revelations of certain Gurus of the past, this doesn't really *mean* nothing. Wids is Wids. The person you get to know is the same, unless you somehow fell madly in love with the cyber-image of said other person, which could get uncomfortable for a bit. I have no axes to grind against Wids or most Gurus. I just enjoy reading posts, playing CoH, interacting, and what-not with you folks. Although I've been on the net for quite awhile, I've rarely found a community of friends to hang out with most of the time. They either fade or I get the wanderlust...then they fade. So, just glad to be here.

Not really a rant, but I guess, since I try to be cool with a person's wishes of suppossed gender; sometimes it is polite and good manners to let the other party think they have you fooled, even though you are not, if you understand that logic. But that may be just me. :)

Continue with your Frankenstien frank discussions. :)

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Gold Rush



A simple "Oh I know" would have sufficed. Do we have to have another post length discussion *takes out the bat*

Gold Rush
03-15-2007, 10:45 PM
Oh, I know.




:P

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Gold Rush

(But I prefer thinking and clueing folks in with discussions and what-not. :)

But, been thinking about your position, Ven, and will post about a new format to my posts, with long-winded reasonings.

Until then, look for my long-winded Captain America theory coming in the Comic book forum very shortly. :) )

The Widowed
03-16-2007, 02:27 AM
But, been thinking about your position, Ven, and will post about a new format to my posts, with long-winded reasonings.
That's the spirit! Fight back! Don't let that goofball tell you what to do. :D

Chris

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I mean...Rumplestiltskin. :p

Gold Rush
03-16-2007, 05:52 AM
It's more like "I've been around the block, forgot that some folks treat the internet (and forums) as popcorn, and like one-liners."

Of course, we both know, Wids, that a simple one-liner doesn't really state details and leads to multi-post arguements or whatnot, so we both like to state things *up front* with all the details to give those whom we inform the most info.

Well, I'll explain more...when I get around to it.

Maybe my procrastinating is a sign I am more "meh" to the idea...Well, we'll just have to see.

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Gold Rush

Akamaz
03-21-2007, 08:02 PM
blah blah blah blah Blood Dimmed Tides


awesome book....... I always wanted to play one of the squidleys, but noone ever wanted to do a water themed thing, so I stuck with Reggie..err Sieur Reginald Brightblood (seelie redcap punk...er/knight)

Oh yeah, and i hope they do a little revision to changeling to make it more able to react with the rest of the WOD without house rules..

The Widowed
03-26-2007, 07:49 PM
You mean without having to burn up all your Glamour by calling on the Wyrd again and again and again?

There were some ways for other un-Enchanted supernaturals to interact with un-Wyrded changelings, too; A mage with Spirit 1 could perceive the Dreaming and its creatures for what they were, and Spirit 3 would allow a mage to travel a trod or even to step right into the Dreaming itself. Considering that mages and changelings go waaaaay back, this is actually pretty fitting. Maybe the mages rubbed off on the fae, which would explain why changeling magic is the second most complicated magic to use in the old WoD (second only to mage magick, of course). :)

But I always thought that being able to pass as a normal person had its advantages, like the time a fomor ambushed our troupe's Troll in his mortal seeming:

Fomor: "Huh huh huh huh huh! Gotcha now! Gonna tear off your arms and gobble your flesh and..."
Slaine the Troll: *draws his chimerical battle axe, swings it, Calls on the Wyrd mid-swing, shifts to fae mien and buries his chimerical-turned-real battle axe in the surprised fomor's chest*
Fomor: "...uhhh...actually, you know what? Not feel so good now...." *dies*

:headbang:

Kinetix
03-27-2007, 12:36 AM
So when are we going to hear about your girlfriend, Kin? Hmmm? :P


You met Krypto long ago.

The Widowed
03-27-2007, 04:22 AM
You met Krypto long ago.
Oh, I see. You're gay for Krypto, you're saying? :p

The Widowed
03-27-2007, 04:35 AM
I agree with Wid's here, very interesting. I like the inclusion of the other, similar myths that inspired Frankenstein. (although I don't agree with the comparison of Orpheus to the Ulgan's. He wasn't torn apart until later when he let the Maeneds get him.)
You know, there's another topic for chatter! Promethean: The Created does cover several myths and tales about people creating other people from dead, living or inhuman matter--whether by magic, science or both--but the book doesn't include all of them. P:TC covered Galatea, the Golem and Frankenstein's monster, but who are some of the Promethean-type people which P:TC left out?

[From oldest to newest:]

Blodeuwedd (a woman created from flowers)
Pinnochio (a boy created from wood, as a puppet)
Lisa from "Weird Science" (a woman programmed into existence)
Serpentor from "G.I. Joe" (a man created from DNA gathered from several historical figures)

Who else? :think:

Druid
03-27-2007, 05:29 AM
Pinnochio would be the same as Galatea. Someone fashioned from something and then brought to life. Galatea was fashioned out of stone, Pinochio wood.

Now Lisa from Weird Science is an interesting one, and if the Technocracy still exists, could be easily brought into play.

I'd assume Serpentor would just be a very very complicated Frankenstein. He's made out of dead people, just not from dead body parts. I think he might be like a Frankenstein redux. His body would not be disproportional, but he still would produce disquiet from his souless eyes and would attract attention easier since he/she would be overly familiar.

In any case, too late for me to think of any other myths, I'll give it some thought though.

Kinetix
03-27-2007, 05:54 AM
Oh, I see. You're gay for Krypto, you're saying? :p

Pretty much. You'd turn gay for him if you heard the things he whispers in my ear...

The Widowed
03-27-2007, 04:48 PM
Hmmm. I wonder if fully sentient cyborgs and near-humans created by humans count, a la Data from ST:TNG and Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell. :think:

Malibu Sally
03-27-2007, 04:51 PM
Hmmm. I wonder if fully sentient cyborgs and near-humans created by humans count, a la Data from ST:TNG and Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell. :think:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MalibuSally/smilies/69f9f1d7.gif
And you called ME a Trek geek. hmmph.

The Widowed
03-27-2007, 05:04 PM
You've just been waiting for the chance to use that smiley again, haven't you? :P

Malibu Sally
03-27-2007, 05:17 PM
And this one too:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MalibuSally/smilies/sniper.gif

The Widowed
03-27-2007, 07:10 PM
Got any Frankenstein-related GIFs? :)

Kinetix
03-27-2007, 07:29 PM
(SH|T! Zombies!)> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MalibuSally/smilies/sniper.gif http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/images/smilies/zombie_smiley.gifhttp://www.dvxuser.com/V6/images/smilies/zombie_smiley.gifhttp://www.dvxuser.com/V6/images/smilies/zombie_smiley.gif

The Widowed
03-27-2007, 11:07 PM
:lmao: