Terrible news for CoH

[Sable Phoenix]

Well, it's become clear to me that the dev team does not play their own game and moreover doesn't care what the playerbase wants. It looks like Suppression is here to stay.

According to a reply Statesman gave to a PM about the subject, as cited in this thread (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=shibboleth&Number=2832702&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=10) on the official forums (scroll about three-quarters of the way down, it's one of Rogue Scorpion's posts), Suppression on travel powers is "working as intended." Despite all the problems it's caused, especially to Defenders, Controllers and Blasters, despite widening the Squishy Gap between those ATs and Tankers and Scrappers, despite many well-stated and perfectly valid reasons as to why it is a bad thing and only lessens the fun of the game, it's "working as intended". At this rate there will soon be no compelling reason to make anything but a Tank or Scrapper.

Frankly I think it is the worst change that's ever been made to City of Heroes, bar none. Not only does it affect every single archetype (some to more debilitating degrees than others, it literally spells death for Defenders and Controllers in many cases since toggle debuffs now equal permanent movement suppression), but the main thing that really set CoH apart from other MMOs was the fast and dynamic combat in which movement played a key part. That's been destroyed and CoH has made the largest move towards "EQ in Tights" to date. It seems the devs' vision of the game consists of everyone standing in one place pressing the buttons to activate their powers. Sounds like lots of fun. So much fun in fact that it is the main thing that turned me off to WoW and EQ2 when I tried them. But even worse it indicates a trend that will ultimately only harm the game; rather than depart from the status quo and move more towards the comic books that brought so much of its fanbase to it, CoH is being brought more in line with other MMOs out there.

It's been a fun year, the game I signed up for and this one the devs apparently intend to create are most emphatically not the same thing any more. My account expired on the 28th, and now it will stay that way.

[MaligneFamily]

Bah nonsense, Hover is now very viable... But I do agree with the debuff perma supression... worst change, doubt that.

[Kinetix]

so dramatic...

how many times have you quit coh?

[Blackbat]

so dramatic...

how many times have you quit coh?

No need to get sarcastic. He has a right to say his peace.

[Tarkenchi]

No need to get sarcastic. He has a right to say his peace.

I dont think he was being sarcastic, sadly.

Guys, theres no need to attack sable, I agree on the lameness of the base speed things, I was a fly-ninja-kicker person, who swooped down, kicked, flew up, went back down...

[Yin]

Keep it sane and it will stay opened. If I see an attack coming from anyone after this post I'm closing it.

[IamLink]

jesus christ, ill delete my posts...-_-

[razoras]

This is just a standard sky-is-falling-game-is-doomed post, so it's hard not to respond a certain way to it. Supression won't kill this game. It isn't a sign the devs don't know how to play, or don't care about the community, or any other doomsayer keywords or key phrases.

Supression falls into the same category as other controversial changes, like changing perma-uber-powers that were originally intended as situational. Man, when tanks lost perma-ubstoppable you'd think the end of the world had arrived! That's only a single small example of a change that creates theads like these. Touch any power or game mechanic and you get the same result.

I think all we need to do is try to adjust to the change. NO ONE I have grouped with since supression was implemented has really suffered because of it. Not noticeably anyway.

[Poison]

I disagree on the "the devs don't care about us" thing. It has been proven often enough that Cryptic is one of the, if not the best mmog dev team around atm. Not all of their ideas and solutions are gold, but they listen.

But drama and threats aside, I agree about the supression sucking. I hate it when Sabbath slows down from his superspeed when I want to do as much as brawl a Skull on my way through PP.

[8 Ball]

Wow..taking TP finally has an advantage :D.

[IamLink]

:lol: ^lmao^ :lol:

[Esbat]

Wow..taking TP finally has an advantage :D.

Yeah I noticed that... people are taking TP more since the suppression... or maybe I just started noticing it due to the lack of suppression

[Vendel]

As a blaster in PvP suppression is a tanks/scraps best friend.....I didnt think sprint would become so much a part of my stragety......

[Sword]

I can't believe this hasn't been said yet:


DOOOOOOOOOM!!!

[Xanatos]

You know what's REALLY funny about this? Suppression was introduced to stop superspeed 'jousting' in PvP. But...if you six slot sprint and swift you can still do it.

Problem remains. Yet more customers angry at suppression.

Incidently Sable - I thought you quit before this change came about?

[Necrosys]

Incidently Sable - I thought you quit before this change came about?

I think Sable was just taking a break from the game before - letting the account expire and then renewing it later when they'd been some updates or something. This just pushed him to choose to not renew his account - I think.

And I can't say I've been too affected by the supression of travel powers, I... uh... rarely ever fought with my travel powers on...

[Sword]

Yeah, can't say I ever actually fought much with travel powers on. Except when I simply forgot to turn them off.
Rusty fights Sky Raiders in the air, but he uses 6-slotted Hover as travel power, so he's actually better off now :D

Only times I've used travel powers actively in a fight has been PVP when some retarded opponent keeps super speeding around for no reason. (Jousting doesn't work against a prepared scrapper you morons!)

[suburbanhell]

I disagree on the "the devs don't care about us" thing. It has been proven often enough that Cryptic is one of the, if not the best mmog dev team around atm. Not all of their ideas and solutions are gold, but they listen.

But drama and threats aside, I agree about the supression sucking. I hate it when Sabbath slows down from his superspeed when I want to do as much as brawl a Skull on my way through PP.

YAY!! It's not just my computer being spooty as I run by Freaks in Talos!! It's a stupid fricken feature they built into the game! :singdanceI have been plagued for weeks by the thought of "crap I need to upgrade something in there, I keep slowing WAAAAAAAAAY down everytime I happen to land NEAR a mob while running/jumping. Good thing to know now that it's really just our crappy dev team at work. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go rant on the main boards... :grumble:

[inkblaster]

Wow..taking TP finally has an advantage :D.

Woot! Porters unite! Finally our travel power is useful!

Well, I mean it always was to get away when you were held or slowed, but now, BLADOW!

This almost makes up for the camdist nerf that went totally unnoticed by most of the community, almost.

[Grae Knight]

I don't see what the big deal is? :confused:

[Tarberetta]

I still use a slotted out hover in combat, so this didn't bother me any.

[Sebastian Kain]

Wow..taking TP finally has an advantage :D.

Agreed.

[Malibu Sally]

YAY!! It's not just my computer being spooty as I run by Freaks in Talos!! It's a stupid fricken feature they built into the game! :singdanceI have been plagued for weeks by the thought of "crap I need to upgrade something in there, I keep slowing WAAAAAAAAAY down everytime I happen to land NEAR a mob while running/jumping. Good thing to know now that it's really just our crappy dev team at work. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go rant on the main boards... :grumble:
Huh? I've been super jumping and landing by mobs without slowing down at all. Do you have something set at auto attack? If that is the case.... WHY? I never have understood anyone having ANY power set to auto attack. It only creates problems and debt as far as I've seen. :rolleyes:

[Xanatos]

Burby - turn off invince and you'll be fine :)

[Masked Revenger]

Okay, so, I'm confused... suppression?

Chris

[Meltman]

If you have super speed, flight, or super leap on, and you're either hit by an enemy or launch into an attack yourself, you're temporarily slowed down. They added this when they got rid of the accuracy debuff that came with these powers.

[Malibu Sally]

Okay, so, I'm confused... suppression?

Chris

Basically, if you have SS, SJ, or Fly going and you attack something, you are forced to your base run, jump, or hover speed for 4 seconds. Lot's of people seem to have a problem with that.

Meltman... are you SURE its if an enemy hits you? I've been hit while SJ'ing and don't see any change in my movement.

[Masked Revenger]

If you have super speed, flight, or super leap on, and you're either hit by an enemy or launch into an attack yourself, you're temporarily slowed down. They added this when they got rid of the accuracy debuff that came with these powers.

Ahh... guess I just haven't noticed... and I get hit all the time with Super Leap.

Chris

[Meltman]

Basically, if you have SS, SJ, or Fly going and you attack something, you are forced to your base run, jump, or hover speed for 4 seconds. Lot's of people seem to have a problem with that.

Meltman... are you SURE its if an enemy hits you? I've been hit while SJ'ing and don't see any change in my movement.

Maybe that's just fly....I haven't used the other since the patch.

[suburbanhell]

Burby - turn off invince and you'll be fine :)

Ah-Ha! I'll have to try that

Sally to answer your question, -- I run Unyielding, Invince, and TI constantly.

[8 Ball]

I should also add find a Kinetisist with Inertial reduction (super leap buff) from my understanding it's not affected by supression :D I'm actually considering re-speccing into it for this reason.

[Remianen]

This is just a standard sky-is-falling-game-is-doomed post, so it's hard not to respond a certain way to it. Supression won't kill this game. It isn't a sign the devs don't know how to play, or don't care about the community, or any other doomsayer keywords or key phrases.

Supression falls into the same category as other controversial changes, like changing perma-uber-powers that were originally intended as situational. Man, when tanks lost perma-ubstoppable you'd think the end of the world had arrived! That's only a single small example of a change that creates theads like these. Touch any power or game mechanic and you get the same result.

I think all we need to do is try to adjust to the change. NO ONE I have grouped with since supression was implemented has really suffered because of it. Not noticeably anyway.


Perhaps. But coding a gamewide change to fix an issue that affects 0.37892% of the playerbase who consider PvP a central part of their gameplay, is kinda dumb IMO. Even the most moronic dev team in recent memory (EverQuest, Planes of Power era) wouldn't make a gamewide change because people on Sullon Zek demanded it.

The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of people who play this game (and MMOs in general) don't care either way. They log in and play, for the most part. They don't frequent message boards about their game of choice (unless they're forced to, like links to patch messages housed on a message board imbedded in the patcher), they don't wax poetic or wring their hands and gnash their teeth at changes. They log in and play. Period. So the grumbling of the very vocal but pronounced minority, generally isn't what's best for the devs to hold as gospel. That is, unless you're an EverQuest dev. If that's the case, I get to curse at you and question your heritage and sexual orientation until you gimme what I ask for because you're as intelligent as an aphid! :p (At least that was the perception we all had)

[Remianen]

Huh? I've been super jumping and landing by mobs without slowing down at all. Do you have something set at auto attack? If that is the case.... WHY? I never have understood anyone having ANY power set to auto attack. It only creates problems and debt as far as I've seen. :rolleyes:

shrug, I have brawl (at minimum) on auto-attack with all but Flameshrike (who has near perma-hasten). The problem isn't with having something on auto, it's targeting things in attack range. I don't do that since I use mouseover to check details and don't have to follow through with the click (or, if I do, the object is far beyond attack range).

I don't really have a problem with suppression since, for the most part, I play Scrappers and Tanks as primaries and thus don't have to deal with squishiness as much. I have SJ'd into a back of angry mobs before, but that was more from my own carelessness (or my video card's laziness in drawing them) than anything else. But a lot can happen in 4 seconds so I hope they reduce it to 2 or 3, tops.

[Xanatos]

Suppression only affects superspeed, flight, and superjump.

Want to run fast in combat? 6 slot swift and sprint
Want to fly fast in combat? 6 slot Hover
Want to jump fast in combat? 6 slot Combat Jumping and Hurdle

TRAVEL powers are being turned back into what they are - methods of travel. Which allows the combat powers to shine on their own.

I don't like it because it makes it harder to fly/run/jump in combat - but I cannot deny the logic in doing so.

[Akamaz]

personally I think that the reason the devs made this change has less to do with PVP folks jousting each other, and more with PVE folks jousting mobs that have crappy range attacks.

The biggest thing about this change was that the flyers were complaining that the other travel powers had no accuracy penalty, so they added an accuracy penalty to EVERYTHING... then the ss and sj folks complained about that.

so then the decided to get rid of the accuracy penalty... and the folks without travel powers complained that they were getting screwed for not taking one.

thus they implemented the current system, you no longer have an accuracy penalty, but you slow down for a little while when you attack.

does the stealth of SS go away when blasters drop their time bombs and trip mines now?

[Randomus]

I think it's pretty stupid, but it's not the end of the world.

[Remianen]

does the stealth of SS go away when blasters drop their time bombs and trip mines now?

Depends. Are trip mine/time bomb coded as pure attacks when used or only when detonated? If the former, then yes (since the stealth effect of SS will drop the moment suppression kicks in, as confirmed by Statesman in the post Sable linked). If the latter, then no (since suppression doesn't come into play).

[BvS]

While it was certainly an unwelcome surprise to have my tail handed to me the first time I SS'd toward a group of mobs, fired off a blast and then couldn't run out of range as quickly as I'd have liked, it wasn't anything that couldn't be adapted to.

I do agree that applying the nerf bat to other travel powers, rather than giving Flight better accuracy, was the wrong way for the devs to go.

It's bad business to force your customers to relearn even a small portion of gameplay/controls while playing established characters every time you come up with a patch.

[Quakester]

While it was certainly an unwelcome surprise to have my tail handed to me the first time I SS'd toward a group of mobs, fired off a blast and then couldn't run out of range as quickly as I'd have liked, it wasn't anything that couldn't be adapted to.

I do agree that applying the nerf bat to other travel powers, rather than giving Flight better accuracy, was the wrong way for the devs to go.

It's bad business to force your customers to relearn even a small portion of gameplay/controls while playing established characters every time you come up with a patch.

Still, if they had taken the acc penalty away from flight, there would more complaints from non flyers.

I find that people wll complain no matter what.

[BvS]

Still, if they had taken the acc penalty away from flight, there would more complaints from non flyers.

I find that people wll complain no matter what.

Agreed. I do recall being peeved when I found out that 'only flyers' had the accuracy penalty. It was and is, in my opinion, a design flaw to have it in place to begin with.

A mistake was made somewhere; either in initially making Flight the only travel power with this drawback or nerfing the other travel powers to compensate after release.

And yes, people will always find something to complain about.

[Xielos]

So THATS why my jumpiness was so crappy for those few seconds O_o

I always make sure that I switch my SJ to Combat Jumping when I go into battle, I really need the defense buff. And I agree with Sable on at least one more thing: I love moving around when fighting. When I was a newbie I would jump and run around in a circle around me enemy, thinking it would help me dodge the attacks :chuckle: . Sometimes I still do it for fun :shinner:

[Amoeba Man]

First time I realized Suppression was on live I was looking at Lamprey lying face down at the feet of Archon Burkholder, and I was wondering why I couldn't fly away. As far as 6 slotting Hover is concerned, yeah that would be a good idea, if I had Hover. I opened the Flight pool with Air Superiority and I like it that way. Plus, if your telling me I have to 6 slot another power just to be effective then they can shove it. It's bad enough I was broken down after months of struggling with endurance management and hospital visits before I took Stamina, I don't need another "Must Have" power. And why the heck did Fly have an accuracy penalty anyway? It was the slowest of the travel powers as it was. That never made any sense to me. I'll spare the community my comments about the nerfing of the perma builds and the blight to the game that is Hasten.[/rant]

[Akamaz]

And why the heck did Fly have an accuracy penalty anyway? It was the slowest of the travel powers as it was. That never made any sense to me. [/rant]


simple enough answer AM. if you follow the "blaster defense is range" rule, when fighting non flyers, you're perma "out of range" to melee. Since all powers have an activation time that stops you from moving, Superspeed and super jump have moments where they would be vulnerable to "getting caught"
with flight you stop moving up high in the air and can't "get caught" except by other flyers.

Now I understand that with hover you can still go perma "out of range" but you can't do the whole "fly in at high speed, attack and fly back out at high speed"

[Sable Phoenix]

There are several reasons Suppression is a bad thing, and poorly implemented:

1) It doesn't matter if you have the travel power on or not, Suppression kicks in as soon as you attack. You can have the travel power off, and turn it on after you attack, and still be suppressed.

2) Suppression drops you to your BASE movement speed, as if you had no movement enhancing powers at all, including things like Swift.

3) Suppression functions on non-attack powers such as Invincibility, or toggle debuffs like Radiation Infection or Snowstorm for example. This results in perma-Suppression, where a Defender who activates Snowstorm for example is permanently reduced to his base speed and cannot use any movement power. In a lot of cases this works like a reverse debuff; Snowstorm, for example, is now a horrible power because it slows the user down more than it does the target.

Suppression was implemented as a way to combat "jousting" in the Arena, which is the practice of moving past a target at high speed so you're carried far away from it by the time the attack goes off. Originally the dev team implemented Fly's Accuracy debuff into Superleap and Superspeed, which got a huge negative response. They switched that out for Suppression, which is worse; at least the -ACC wouldn't kill you, at least not directly. Suppression can and does. You could at least control the -ACC, you can't control Suppression at all; -ACC at least made sense, Suppression doesn't (note the people who've mentioned they were confused or thought it was a bug; imagine what a new player would think). The worst thing is that this does nothing to stop jousting, since it's a tactic based on the way the client and server communicate with each other. Ridiculously poor planning all the way around.

The "forcing travel powers to be used for what they're designed for" argument doesn't wash for a lot of reasons. Remember that it was the PLAYERS back in Beta that named them "travel powers"; they're just power pool powers like any other. It hasn't been a problem for a year, why is it one now? The dev team have never given a satisfactory anwer to that. And you can't say that the other combat powers like Hover or Combat Jumping will suddenly be useful when they weren't before; they were always useful if for at least two reasons, lower endurance usage and defense buffing. CJ gives immobilization protection as well. And Hasten doesn't count, since it does nothing for movement; Superspeed WAS the pool's movement power and the only one you can use to increase mobility in combat if you took that pool. The "combat movement" powers and the "travel powers" address different aspects of combat, each of them equally valid. Besides that, it's completely against the spirit of comic books to make this type of change; you don't see Flash dropping to a crawl when he gives a badguy an uppercut, or Superman hovering in one place for several seconds after the same, their "travel powers" are integral to their fighting style.

Comet Woman's right, I let my account expire for various reasons, gameplay only being one of them. I planned to come back when I could, but that has changed now. I didn't leave CoH, it left me.

[Xanatos]

1. Correct - but it is only Superspeed, Superjump, and Flight that will be suppressed.
2. Incorrect - suppression only affects Superspeed, Superjump, and Flight.
3. Possibly a bug. It really depends if the devs wanted travel powers to be used when affecting other in-game entities or not. I.e. Aggro or debuffs classed as "attacks" - it's debateable.

Superspeed, Superjump, and Flight are travel powers. The benefit they give is that they allow you to move fast with few slots. If you wish to have the bonus of moving fast and being able to engage the enemy than you should be prepared to spend slots on powers (CJ, Hover, etc) to make that happen.

This is the logic the devs are using anyway - and it does make sense. I don't like it though.

[Quakester]

I will say I never had an issue with SJ and Invincibility. I leave it on all the time and pop in and out of mobs. I gotta watch where I'm jumping. :chuckle:

[Sable Phoenix]

Superspeed, Superjump, and Flight are travel powers. The benefit they give is that they allow you to move fast with few slots. If you wish to have the bonus of moving fast and being able to engage the enemy than you should be prepared to spend slots on powers (CJ, Hover, etc) to make that happen.

This is the logic the devs are using anyway - and it does make sense. I don't like it though.

I can see that, although I don't agree with it either, obviously. But say that's the case, where do we leave Superspeed in this equation? They're screwed. The whole "if you want to move fast you must do X" is bass-ackwards anyway. Before, you had options; for example, you could use Fly and Hover like they were designed, toggling between them, and get good mobility, or you could slot Hover for speed if you didn't want to mess with switching. Likewise you could slot Sprint if you didn't want to deal with Superspeed's endurance cost (which was considerable, even for a Regen scrapper, I know, I used it). Now if you want to move fast (and "fast" is relative, obviously -- Sprint won't get you to Superspeed levels, Hover will never equal Flight, and slotting Combat Jumping just gives you extra height), you're forced to build a certain way and spend more slots away from your main powersets to do it.

Ah, whatever. Obviously it's not going to change; if Statesman is "by and large happy with the results" as he says, that's all that matters, right? It's been proven before (Rage stands out in my mind), and I'm fed up with it.

CoH could've been something unique unto itself, but it's going the opposite direction. So disappointed.

[Amoeba Man]

Woot! Porters unite! Finally our travel power is useful!

Well, I mean it always was to get away when you were held or slowed, but now, BLADOW!

This almost makes up for the camdist nerf that went totally unnoticed by most of the community, almost.Teleport is too good. Quick! Nerf Teleport!

[Akamaz]

I can't believe this hasn't been said yet:


DOOOOOOOOOM!!!


that is one freakin funny statement...

LEEEROY!

[Morcalivan7]

Well they don't listen that well. While Kinetics has a crap load of threads struggling to find a purpose in this game, the devs are adding -res powers to a dark miasma set that's one of the most defensively powerful already. And now they're adding sonic -res sets(2). And have yet to reply or post a single word about kinetics. Sure they've edited Siphon Speed but that doesn't change the role or let powers like FS actually make an effect on teams more so than any Rad or Dark. Meanwhile Rad/Dark get a crapload of other defensive means. Area slows, area -dmg that works, -def, -acc, +res, stealth, control, etc. It just isn't worth playing a Kin atm and if Dark is the new standard for Defenders then Kinetics has allot of work to do. The GMs or whoever answers their e-mails also don't listen one bit. Imo they have the worse customer support than any company I've known. Sony has a better support and they took months to get my account fixed. Thank god they made a good game to start with and CoV coming out, otherwise I doubt I'd waste a cent on'em.

As for the suppression, they really need to fix that toggle issue, but aside from that I think it's a decent way of keeping melees away from squishies and squishies from continually keeping away from melees while blasting them. It's a good thing imo. The game was rediculous, all you did was bounce around pressing the fire key. Looked more like a game of Mega Man than CoH.

[Jade_Dragon]

All right, as I have pointed out several times before, suppression is actually closer to the comic book concept than "jousting". No, the Flash doesn't drop to a crawl after punching someone. But neither does he do "drive by" punches, shooting up to a foe, and punching him, only to disappear into the distance. The Flash zips up to a foe and STOPS, punching him, only to flash to ANOTHER position next to the foe and stopping AGAIN for another punch.

The ability to zoom from one end of the room to the other is Super Speed. The ability to zoom from one location next to the foe to another, before he can attack, is Super Reflexes. The game is designed that way, and arguing about whether the term "travel powers" was made up in Beta is irrelevant. If you have Defense, then you are BY DESIGN intended to be a Tanker or a Scrapper. If a Blaster can use Super Speed to give himself Scrapper-level defense, then the game is imbalanced.

The issue is not that Blasters can no longer use Super Speed to defend themselves, its that they have no OTHER defense that is comparable. That's the problem. As usual, when the players are forced to choose a particular power in order to accomplish their role, then the game is broken. Super Speed wasn't allowing the Blaster to be what he was supposed to be, it was covering up the poor implementation that was preventing him from being what he was supposed to be. The only reason it showed up now is that until now, the devs thought Blasters were just fine, because of all those jousters. So would you rather have Super Speed, or a Blaster that actually works?

Unfortunately, I think we can accept that the devs did NOT remove the -ACC penalty because of player complaints. They removed the -ACC penalty because it didn't actually change anything. So you only hit half the time, you still never were in any risk, and never took any damage, so it didn't matter. It wasn't about DPS, if it had been, the Speeder would have stopped in melee range. It was about being able to take all the time you needed to take out the foe or foes. So while moving around in combat was fun while it lasted, in the end it comes down to this being an RPG. You just can't dodge attacks, you have to make a dice roll.

Of course, this is not to say that suppression doesn't have its flaws. I agree with your number 1). If the travel power is not on when you attack, then it should NOT be suppressed. If you turn it off and back on, you shouldn't necessarily be able to get around it, but the trigger should be attacking WITH IT ON. If you attack with it off, then you are obviously not jousting.

And I agree with 3). Invincibility is probably suppressed because of its auto-Taunt. And let's be honest. I've run through a room with Invincibility on, when I thought I was invisible. Invincibility COMPLETELY cancels stealth. So I can see it being used for "herding". But that doesn't mean there aren't some AoE defenses that have been incorrectly identified as "attacks".

2), on the other hand, sounds like a misperception. If you don't like being dropped to base run speed, turn on Sprint along with Super Speed. Now, if Sprint and SS can't be turned on at the same time, or the suppression really does shut off Sprint, that's another thing. But people (including Xanatos) seem to be saying that that's not true.

I have a few more issues with suppression, myself:

1) From what I am hearing, suppression shuts off the stealth component of Super Speed. Just to start with, this was not stated in the patch notes, so that makes this a stealth nerf. (no pun intended) Personally, though, I don't feel stealth should be suppressed. Suppressing Fly doesn't make you unable to fly. My understanding was that suppression was ONLY to effect the run speed. And unless it is stacked with Stealth, the speed reduction should be enough to make sure you are still in the aggro area when the attack registers.

If stacking with Stealth is the problem, then I would think the best solution would be just to not let them stack. I agree that Super Speed is, of all the travel powers, the most combat oriented. In fact, Hasten is more of an offensive power, not a defensive one, which makes it pretty much unique.

2) Likewise, while Super Jump should suppress its horizontal jump speed, I don't think it should suppress its height. I'm not exactly sure what it does in this area, because no one's said specifically, but some of the descriptions I've heard lead me to believe jump height is suppressed. There doesn't seem to be any reason for this, as long as the speed is suppressed, the direction you are travelling shouldn't have any effect on jousting.

None of this is a reason to get rid of suppression, though, it just needs to effect speed and ONLY speed. It's purpose should NOT be to stop the hero, but to simply slow him down to his "usual" combat powers, Hover, Combat Jumping, and Sprint. This is just implementation. And it isn't game breaking, because not everyone TAKES Super Speed, and not everyone that does USES it in combat. Again, are you arguing for all Blasters being allowed to use Super Speed to joust, or do you want them to be able to survive WITHOUT it?

It seems to me that if suppression is here to stay, the best way to lessen the impact is to argue for fixing some of the "side effects" of the change, instead of insisting that it be dumped altogether. You're more likely to be heard that way, and besides, you're more likely to SAY something that is likely to be heard. If nothing else, just point out the problems you are having, as you are doing here, instead of just insisting that the whole idea be dropped, with no explanation given.

[Jade_Dragon]

Well they don't listen that well. While Kinetics has a crap load of threads struggling to find a purpose in this game, the devs are adding -res powers to a dark miasma set that's one of the most defensively powerful already.

Um... Morc? -res as a debuff is an OFFENSE, not a DEFENSE. It makes you DO more damage.

Granted, they could have possibly decreased Dark Miasma's defense to compensate for the greater offense, but it's only one power. Dark had no other way to raise damage. And since the hit points of bad guys are balanced for those Defenders that DO have the ability to raise their damage...

[Akamaz]

if kinetics is so gimped, then why is it that when i look through the controller guides, all i can seem to find is primary/kinetics builds?

[Magna Harrier]

Man, as far as DOOOOOOOOOM! posts go, this one was pretty lame. I was hoping for at least something terribly unjust.... as a blaster, I should be the one hurting from all this suppression hoohah, but I have'nt noticed much change at all since it went through. Granted, I don't usually go through an entire battle with superspeed on. Heck, the fact that there's no accuracy penalty HELPS me... keep me from having to turn off SS before I fire.

[8 Ball]

if kinetics is so gimped, then why is it that when i look through the controller guides, all i can seem to find is primary/kinetics builds?

Because it's great for buffing pets :D. Especially for Fire controllers.

[Jade_Dragon]

I'm afraid that what is unjust is that Blasters are going to have to wait to see their problems addressed.

Unfortunately, the reason why "nerfs" usually come in before fixes is that the devs are more concerned with people levelling too fast than too slowly. That leaves a short period you lose something, but don't yet have something to replace it.

[Morcalivan7]

Um... Morc? -res as a debuff is an OFFENSE, not a DEFENSE. It makes you DO more damage.

Granted, they could have possibly decreased Dark Miasma's defense to compensate for the greater offense, but it's only one power. Dark had no other way to raise damage. And since the hit points of bad guys are balanced for those Defenders that DO have the ability to raise their damage...
I don't see'em raising damage for FFers. Dark Miasma has some of the most powerful defensive abilities and here they go adding a -res to tar patch, making it have both powerful def along with the ability to add great power to offense. I don't see them adding defense to Kinetics. And no, repel is not a defense, it's a means of shooting yourself in the foot so that you can't replenish your health/endurance or receive the full force of your damage buff from fulcrum shift. As for controllers, they don't rely on their kinetics, they rely on their holds and pets. Kinetics is just there to enhance their control and pets as a secondary. But they could do well even without a secondary. And as we all know cons use buff-debuff much different and affectively than anu defender using their set.

But there's a whole topic of it's issues on main boards. This is not the place. It was just an example of devs not listening.

[Jade_Dragon]

I don't see'em raising damage for FFers.

Well, heck yeah. But I think it's more a case of not knowing where to put it. Everyone knows Force Field needs help. But it's not like tweaking one power is going to fix it. It's easy to say "we need more damage", but how do you work it into the existing Power concepts? What gives the debuff? Repulsion Field? Force Bubble? Detention Field?

I don't see them adding defense to Kinetics.

That, too. Obviously, it's the opposite situation, plenty of offense, but like a Blaster, little defense. In fact, most of its defense buffs are for allies only. Which makes it more of a group choice, despite its offense orientation.

Note that again that's why it works well for Controllers, though. With their holds they can compensate for the lack of defense. They need offense.

But there's a whole topic of it's issues on main boards. This is not the place. It was just an example of devs not listening.

Oh, I think the devs listen, they just don't act fact enough for our "instant gratification". You want to see devs that don't listen, I've got three letters for you, and the first is S and the last is G.

[The Widowed]

Well, heck yeah. But I think it's more a case of not knowing where to put it. Everyone knows Force Field needs help. But it's not like tweaking one power is going to fix it. It's easy to say "we need more damage", but how do you work it into the existing Power concepts? What gives the debuff? Repulsion Field? Force Bubble? Detention Field?
Maybe they could alter the behavior of the power (like they did with Storm Kick) and rename it (like they did with all the Katana powers). Give one power the ability to turn "jelly-like" and ensnare opponents, give another bubble the ability to pulse with oodles of "battering ram" bumps that deal AoE damage and hit anyone who gets too close...things like that.

[Jade_Dragon]

Maybe they could alter the behavior of the power (like they did with Storm Kick) and rename it (like they did with all the Katana powers). Give one power the ability to turn "jelly-like" and ensnare opponents, give another bubble the ability to pulse with oodles of "battering ram" bumps that deal AoE damage and hit anyone who gets too close...things like that.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of a "slow" field that restricts quick movements and thus reduces the Defense of a foe. Or a "boost" field that gets behind allies' punches and beams and pushes them harder into the target.

Just to make it clear, I'm not talking about ACTUAL damage, here, more a buff TO damage. Dark and FF used to be the only Defender sets that could not a) boost damage b) boost accuracy or c) boost attack rate. Guess which is the only one now?

Actually, this is going outside of the current Power definitions, but I've thought that a "Build Up" like power would be totally in keeping with the idea of "force". Only, instead of building up only the caster, it would radiate around him and boost his allies as well. Or, he could fire a beam which would "charge up" an ally, although that would be unusable on himself.

The problem with Dark and Force Field, though, is that because of their high defense, they are more like Tankers. Give them too much damage, and they become overpowered, because their defense is too strong. Give them too little, though, and they become unable to take on a large number of foes because they can regenerate faster than they do damage. There is a point at which damage is too low to do any good, and as it gets higher, it actually gets more of an advantage at a high rate. So there's only a small difference between "too much" damage and "not enough". At least for more defensive combos.

[Jade_Dragon]

[pause for effect]

Come to think of it... why don't any of our powers have a -regen effect?

Of course, neither do the bad guys, but still. It never occured to me before. We have End drain, and -recovery, but AFAIK no -regen.

[Emerald Sky]

The GMs or whoever answers their e-mails also don't listen one bit. Imo they have the worse customer support than any company I've known. Sony has a better support and they took months to get my account fixed. Thank god they made a good game to start with and CoV coming out, otherwise I doubt I'd waste a cent on'em.

I can't even count the amount of MMO's I've played after so many, and Cryptic/NCSoft's CS are at the top of the list IMO.

Just because what they reply back with isn't what you necessarily want to hear, doesn't mean their CS is bad. Bad CS is when a company doesn't even get back to you, treats you rudely, etc. Every single time I've sent something to Cryptic/NCSoft, I've gotten a very timely response. If this is the worst CS you've seen, then I'd really hate to see the other companies you've been dealing with.

[Grae Knight]

Just because what they reply back with isn't what you necessarily want to hear, doesn't mean their CS is bad. Bad CS is when a company doesn't even get back to you, treats you rudely, etc. Every single time I've sent something to Cryptic/NCSoft, I've gotten a very timely response. If this is the worst CS you've seen, then I'd really hate to see the other companies you've been dealing with.

I agree totally! Everytime I have had an in-game problem and sent a request it was answered immediately. I think NCSoft has fantastic costumer service.

[Akamaz]

not only do they have Serge the best costumer service, but their Customer service ain't bad either.

[Remianen]

I can't even count the amount of MMO's I've played after so many, and Cryptic/NCSoft's CS are at the top of the list IMO.

Just because what they reply back with isn't what you necessarily want to hear, doesn't mean their CS is bad. Bad CS is when a company doesn't even get back to you, treats you rudely, etc. Every single time I've sent something to Cryptic/NCSoft, I've gotten a very timely response. If this is the worst CS you've seen, then I'd really hate to see the other companies you've been dealing with.

I'll only talk about the major MMOs I've played since, comparing the CS of a Hostile Space to something of the size and scope of say EQ or DAoC at their prime is akin to comparing a grain of sand to Mt Kilimanjaro. Easy to give top notch CS when you have a handful of subscribers, most of which you know on a first name basis. But I will say I agree with Emerald Sky. Worst I've ever seen is SOE by a long shot (and that's including Origin and Sierra, who were also pretty bad). Their lack of CS ran from the CEO all the way to the dude scrubbing mops out in the deep sink. How could you get any worse than releasing a largely unfinished product and then blaming the players for being the victims of bugs you know exist? Enough to have one designer say, "We knew about the crash bug but couldn't get approval to spend the time to fix it." (in reference to the bug that allowed players to exploit and crash zones thus forcing respawns of certain high demand spawns and/or griefing people setting up to take down those spawns).

Anyway, I may not like the change but, like I always have in every other game previously, I'll find a way around it np. You can still joust or perch or whatever, especially considering how wonky the pathing is in some areas of several zones. So the problem isn't solved. They just put Neosporin on the cut that they perceived. :|

[The Widowed]

Enlighten us ignorant masses. Who or what is "SOE"?

[Jade_Dragon]

Enlighten us ignorant masses. Who or what is "SOE"?

Sony Online Entertainment. Most of that I'm assuming is from Star Wars Galaxies, but they own EQ2, too.

[razoras]

SOE is basically synonymous with "poop on your customers" in the online universe.

[Elemento]

SOE is basically synonymous with "poop on your customers" in the online universe.

So very true words were never spoken. ;)
I once played PlanetSide. From beta, I only stayed with them for 6 months. SOE is very two faced and speak with forked tongue. :chuckle:

[Remianen]

Sony Online Entertainment. Most of that I'm assuming is from Star Wars Galaxies, but they own EQ2, too.

Actually it's not. I've never played Star Wars Galaxies since there was no way in the world I was going to play a game that Raph Koster presided over. Wouldn't play EQ2 because I played EQ1 for six years and thought the premise for the sequel was stupid when the two games are compared (and judging from the feedback from friends, I was right). I don't know how Jump to Lightspeed was treated but I have experience with Sony releasing half finished expansions and basically divorcing themselves from them shortly after the sales figures roll in. After my experiences in EQ1 heh, there was no way I was gonna play SWG, EQ2, Planetside or anything else with the SOE logo on it, unless I was feeling particularly masochistic that day.

[suburbanhell]

Agreed, Did EQ1, Quit, went back to UO, stayed there till this past November when being a superhero was becoming more time consuming than a game I had played over the last 7 years, heh, but after EQ1, never again will I touch a sony MMO.

[Randomus]

Whenever I see The Flash or Quicksilver fighthing they're always running around their enemies at high speed punching them mercilessly. I don't think I've ever seen either one of them stop to punch something. Maybe Flash does that in the comics, I only know how he acts in the old live-action movies and the JL cartoons. It would seem pretty stupid to waste the advantage of superhuman speed by slowing down enough for people to hit you.

[Sable Phoenix]

Exactly, thank you Randomus.

Somebody called Flicker on the official boards put it better than I did, which is actually in response to the Dark Armor changes but applies to the entire game:

To the developers: You've made a great piece of simulation software. Very robust, very pretty, and it's based on a nice mathematical construct. As a game, though, it's ceased to be FUN, and that's the important part. Your internal testing has managed to fine-tune a great hypothetical model that has no connection to the game itself, and the changes you make in the name of balance aren't even balanced.

That's what I meant when I said the devs don't care about what the players want. When it comes to a difference between what the players want and their sacred cow of balance, the latter has consistently won out. Some of the changes are so ridiculously unrelated to the purported problems they are designed to address that it's patently obvious they weren't designed by someone who actually plays the game and were not tested in the actual live game environment before release. Couple that with the frequent self-contradiction and total unawareness of how actual game works for the players which so often appears the devs' statements, and the way that player feedback is selectively ignored once an issue is considered "solved", and my confidence that the game is in good hands has been erased.

CoH has just become less and less like a comic book as time goes on and the current trend doesn't indicate that will change, if anything it will become worse, until it's just another MMO with fancier wrapping paper. Yes, I'm unhappy about that, because I had a year of enjoyment and the promise that the game could develop into a real comic-book simulacrum, but of late that has been steadily taken away.

So, I'm done. Both with this thread and the game. Like I said before -- I haven't left CoH, CoH has left me.

[The Widowed]

So, I'm done. Both with this thread and the game. Like I said before -- I haven't left CoH, CoH has left me.
So...we'll see you in a month, then? :D

[Akamaz]

if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all.
/em shuts mouth.

[Xanatos]

Please keep on topic - this thread is about suppression and it's allegedly negative affects on the game. Try not to turn this into a whinefest about how much the devs are "teh suk".

[Astartus]

I'm pretty sure that even the Flash stops or slows down when he lands a hit. This is simply cause you can't land a direct hit while running at superhuman speed. It is just that it doesn't look like stopping for us, cause the movements of the Flash are that fast that the "stop" only lasts a second for a normal human eye.

I think the supression isn't as bad as some people want to make us believe it is.

[Mahaf]

On a lighter note... Siphon Speed cancels the suppression effect.. I'm sure Speed Boost will, too. So... You can still be zipping around, just have to have a Kinetics Defender/Controller with you! :chuckle:

[BvS]

I'm pretty sure that even the Flash stops or slows down when he lands a hit. This is simply cause you can't land a direct hit while running at superhuman speed. It is just that it doesn't look like stopping for us, cause the movements of the Flash are that fast that the "stop" only lasts a second for a normal human eye.

I think the supression isn't as bad as some people want to make us believe it is.

Good example, Astartus. IF Flash didn't stop, however briefly, before landing a punch (and could absorb the damage that'd be done to his fist), there'd be an awful lot of crooks with powdered jawbones in the DC universe!

As far as Supression is concerned, it's not likely to change, so we're better off adapting to it.

[8 Ball]

On a lighter note... Siphon Speed cancels the suppression effect.. I'm sure Speed Boost will, too. So... You can still be zipping around, just have to have a Kinetics Defender/Controller with you! :chuckle:


*pats self*..also note suppresion doesn't affect Inertial reduction, our "super leap" buff.

[Akamaz]

at least not for the time being.....


then again, who knows, maybe it's the answer to all the charges that "kinetix suxxorz! teh d4rk rawks 2 much! n3rf teh d4rk!""!!!!!!1!!!!

[Morcalivan7]

On a lighter note... Siphon Speed cancels the suppression effect.. I'm sure Speed Boost will, too. So... You can still be zipping around, just have to have a Kinetics Defender/Controller with you! :chuckle:
Unless you do the most likely thing for PvP and miss. However most Kins by now see that they need to use Inertial Reduction in PvP. Atm I have SS, SJ and IR as my travel powers, though I only use SS for combat. SJ and IR on their own will reach the jump cap btw. The only problem is it's rather large endurance cost for such a short jumping time. Though it is useful just before Atomic Blast for a quick get-away.

[Jade_Dragon]

I'm pretty sure that even the Flash stops or slows down when he lands a hit. This is simply cause you can't land a direct hit while running at superhuman speed. It is just that it doesn't look like stopping for us, cause the movements of the Flash are that fast that the "stop" only lasts a second for a normal human eye.

Good example, Astartus. IF Flash didn't stop, however briefly, before landing a punch (and could absorb the damage that'd be done to his fist), there'd be an awful lot of crooks with powdered jawbones in the DC universe!

More importantly, while we might not consider it a "stop" in a literal sense, in the sense of the game it is. Once he engages in combat, Flash darts around his opponent while continuing to strike him. While to us he is still moving faster than the eye can see, in terms of distance from his foe he is not moving that far.

If we could see our CoH Speeder blurring around his foe while he stood there "still" in melee range it might be a lot easier to understand. Unfortunately, we can't pick our "dodge" animation, so we are stuck with the "turn a shoulder" ducking move.

Now, this is not to say that drive-by attacks aren't possible in the comics, and in fact they're a lot more common with fliers. The flying charge is a very common attack in the comics. But it's ONE hit, the foe is struck, and is knocked away from the blow. If you want to engage in constant combat, you have to either a) swoop in for the attack and stop, or b) drive the target along in front of you as you continue to pound on him.

[Larke]

ok, finally read most of the posts... and get to add my 5 influence...
anyway, being a lvl 50 eng/eng blaster... I get my ass handed to me nicely in pvp, before any changes I had no problems in mobs (don't know if I do now) but as far as supression goes in pvp, it works, because if i'm far enough away like I should be in flight, not being able to buzz away for 4 seconds is reasonable, because you don't notice! you aren't in range to get hit, now if you're in melee range with flight, expect your ass to get kick anyway, you're in melee range. Now with that being said, I respecced to get the nice energy melee so I could actually kill tanks... can do that now, before, couldn't kill them at all no matter how hard I tried. I pretty much can kill things as long as I have enough breakfrees, with expection of scrappers. I killed a ma/regen scrapper, once, think that was an accident somehow, for the rest of the time I didn't kill him again. as far as a katana/SR scrapper, can't touch him, with elude on... and all my acc HOs and aim and buildup, can't touch him... not that I can't do dmg, I cant HIT him... so there's a thing that needs some balancing... even with elude off, the criticals are unfair. GRANTEd, very fair in regular situations, they don't have range and blah blah, but one on one fight crits are very unfair, no one in game can do as much dmg as a scrapper, which there for makes unfair, scrappers and blasters are suppose to have the same, and at least half the time scrappers can do double blasters. Ok and with that, another thing...

I can't function with any travels powers on anyway. things whiz by too fast that I cant see things well enough to try to target and hit. so in point supression is fine and shouldn't be noticed cause you shouldn't be using those travel powers in combat, you should be using the combat powers.

[Akamaz]

I can't function with any travels powers on anyway. things whiz by too fast that I cant see things well enough to try to target and hit. so in point supression is fine and shouldn't be noticed cause you shouldn't be using those travel powers in combat, you should be using the combat powers.

i think that this started as just another "OMG the devs suck i'm quitting" post. it seems that every time the Devs change something that involves one of the characters Sable plays, we get an "OMG!!! i'm quitting!!" (usually more eloquently put than the paraphrase I just typed in)

first it was that blasters we too fragile and suck "OMG the devs suck!"

then the perma-unstoppble nerf happened, and we got another "OMG I'm quitting the devs suck!"

now the travel nerf hits, and yet again... "OMG I'm quitting the devs suck!"

people just have to change their strategy/builds ect. i mean, folks use superspeed as a travel power because A:) It's the fastest way to get away from the mobs, and b:)it gives them stealth up until they attack. Now, I know with a lot of /devices balsters, their setup was to superspeed in, lay a trip mine/timebomb, then superspeed away. MUCH less risk for the same reward if the timebomb/trip mine wipes out that group than say, a scrapper going up to the same group and taking a swing.

also this could have been done to prevent superspeed/jumping/flying away, and spamming "snipe"

odds are they are either leaving kinetics buffs alone to give a lil more "oomph" to that powerset, OR they're working on how to fit suppression on those buffs.

This is not in any way shape or form an attack against any member of the community, this is my own observation from posts made on other forums, and here at CoHGuru.

[Jade_Dragon]

Well, one of the nice things about Sable is that, as you said, he is indeed much more eloquent than that. He sums up his arguments nicely, and most of them are perfectly valid.

However, while the words may be nice, in the end the message always comes out the same. So while you don't really want to attack any individual person in the community, as you said, in the end there really isn't anything you can do about it, either.

[The Widowed]

Good example, Astartus. IF Flash didn't stop, however briefly, before landing a punch (and could absorb the damage that'd be done to his fist), there'd be an awful lot of crooks with powdered jawbones in the DC universe!
...that is, if the Flash didn't powder every bone in his hands first. As fast as he travels, his hands would still have to be made out of, say, concrete to avoid imploding on impact. :cool:

I'm thinking that guys like the Flash work because their speed effects are something similar to being out of phase with the time continuum, therefore the Velocity factor for the formula for inertia (Inertia = Velocity multiplied by Mass) does not apply. Think of it like someone mashing your Fast-Forward button while everyone else is still on Play; Your punches land with the same amount of force, and by your perceptions your punches aren't travelling any faster than Joe Schmoe is throwing his punches in his rate of time. But your personal time dimension is shortened, therefore you land a lot more of those punches in the same amount of standard time.

Or is that a hokey way of explaining super speed?

[BvS]

Originally Posted by BvS
Good example, Astartus. IF Flash didn't stop, however briefly, before landing a punch (and could absorb the damage that'd be done to his fist), there'd be an awful lot of crooks with powdered jawbones in the DC universe!

...that is, if the Flash didn't powder every bone in his hands first. As fast as he travels, his hands would still have to be made out of, say, concrete to avoid imploding on impact. :cool:

So, we agree then.

[The Widowed]

Yup yup yup. :p

Flash is way too skinny to have concrete fists, though. How could he hold his arms up?

Now fix your quotes, you. :P

[Magna Harrier]

Well, the Flash gets around it by that whole "anti-inertia" aura that he has. The one that keeps hum from melting his costume when he runs. But in the comics, he most certainly does pummel foes without slowing down, at least for the last ten years or so. According to DC (and the JLU cartoon), the only thing he has to slow down to do it sleep and spit or releive himself.

[The Widowed]

Oh, dear...you went there. Now I'm thinking of the Flash taking a leak and boring a hole through the toilet bowl.... :D

[Akamaz]

hmm does the flash's speed apply to reading as well?

[Solario]

Yeah, but Impulse, now Kid Flash, is the only one of the known Flashs who can actually remember what they read afterwards.

[The Icy One]

This Flash discussion reminded me of a episode of X-Files, where they find three kids with super speed ablilities and it's killing one of them because of the force against the body. It was a cool episode, I only saw it a week or two ago.. o.o

[Yin]

This is ****ty.

This explains why I go slower than Hover after I attack someone. I sent it as a bug. Wow. If Marvel's MMO is a success I see a mass exodus in store for CoH. Suppression over more content. That's they way to please the fanbase!

[Seadevil]

I thought Marvel's MMO got canned a long time ago?

[IamLink]

Don't think so, saw an article about it in my bro's XboX magazine about a week ago...

[Jade_Dragon]

This is ****ty.

This explains why I go slower than Hover after I attack someone. I sent it as a bug. Wow. If Marvel's MMO is a success I see a mass exodus in store for CoH. Suppression over more content. That's they way to please the fanbase!

I think this would be a lot more acceptable if the suppressed speed could be Enhanced. I also think it was a mistake for them to implement suppression if you toggle on the Power AFTER you attack. It was obviously meant to stop people from just turning the power off and back on again to get around the penalty, but as far as I'm concerned, if you switch to Hover in order to attack, you should not be suppressed if you then switch back to Fly.

[ChairLegOfTruth]

Special Brew fights at Sprint rather than SuperSpeed anyway; too many times I've run past my target rather than up to it.

[Lotus]

Everytime I open a post or thread by sable i expect 1 of these phases:

1. I am quiting these forums, game, AT
2. This AT is gimped, these forums are screwed up, this person is wrong
3. This is the worst idea ever and CoH is DOOOOOOOMMMMMMEEEEDDD

Not that it is bad and not that I am flaming. Just pointing out this is what I have come to expect. Its one of those little quirks that makes sable who he is.

[Takeda]

Well, I have to say I don't like the change. It's the posterboy for a change that was made for PVP balance having an effect in PVE. Plus, it takes away the guilty pleasure of running through Boomtown with Superspeed and Hurricane on at level 30. :) Bowling for Council? It does make my storm defender's life even more difficult though. Harder to use Hurricane to pack mobs together. Given the insanely long range some mobs have 30+, I'm honestly wondering how the devs expect somebody to use the power.

[Yin]

Everytime I open a post or thread by sable i expect 1 of these phases:

1. I am quiting these forums, game, AT
2. This AT is gimped, these forums are screwed up, this person is wrong
3. This is the worst idea ever and CoH is DOOOOOOOMMMMMMEEEEDDD

Not that it is bad and not that I am flaming. Just pointing out this is what I have come to expect. Its one of those little quirks that makes sable who he is.

No more of this. Keep it to yourself or tell Sable how you personally feel through PMs. We all don't need to know. Thanks.

[Lotus]

Thes I wasnt being negative towards sable at all. Acturally with all the bad stuff going on I was pointing out sometimes we get used to and come to expect ppl's quirks and behavior. Sable doesn't bother me at all. I know things are tense around here for some reason that I don't understand and don't need to, but geesh I would think as dead as this place is acceptance and posting would be welcomed. Sorry if it was taking the wrong way. Again I truly didn't mean it in a nagative way.

[Blackbat]

Thes I wasnt being negative towards sable at all. Acturally with all the bad stuff going on I was pointing out sometimes we get used to and come to expect ppl's quirks and behavior. Sable doesn't bother me at all. I know things are tense around here for some reason that I don't understand and don't need to, but geesh I would think as dead as this place is acceptance and posting would be welcomed. Sorry if it was taking the wrong way. Again I truly didn't mean it in a nagative way.

I didn't know the place was dead. Guess I missed that. Ah well. :)

[Lotus]

You havent noticed the decline in post? I remember when I first found pcity (right after getting the game) it was so active it was hard to keep up. The art, the player info, the playing, the comic talk it was the best. Seems like now its got a black cloud of it. But hey you are right thats just how I see it. I am honestly not meaning to be trouble, negative, or a pain. I just remember my work day went faster when I had more to read is all.

[Akamaz]

posts have declined in number a bit since i started coming to pcity.com, i mean, I havn't seen Esbat say "HACHI MACHI" in at least a week!

[Jade_Dragon]

I haven't noticed a significant decline in posts. Esbat explained why he took so long to respond to the catgirls thread, but he did respond. There may be a subtle shift in who is posting and when, but I see new posts at about the same rate as always. It is summer vacation, after all. That's going to both discourage and encourage traffic.