Lord Recluse SF - a stalker's experience

[Tgx]

Mission 1 : Assault Longbow Base

Mission Objectives :
. 5 Bombs to set: located in towers (2 in each) and lab; waypoints mark locations
. Kidnap Technician: spawns randomly in towers and lab; will catch up if left behind
. Defeat Crimson: located in Laboratory
. Destroy 12 Chasers: located randomly above the island's airspace

Remarks :
. the map for this mission is similar to that of the Longbow base in Nerva.
. Crimson is usually assisted by 4 Ballista Longbows
. Kidnaping technician triggers a longbow ambush which can, sometimes, lock the tech as long as the spawned ambush hasn’t been annihilated.
. Setting the 5th bomb also triggers an ambush.
. There are jails in this mission.

Tips :
. Using one stealthy guy to explore the map, the two towers and the lab (while other players log for ten minutes) generates a “light” map. In some cases, you can even pick the 4 bombs in towers without being noticed.

Mission 2 : Assault Malta Base

Mission Objectives :
. Steal Orestes Rifle: located in back room inside compound
. Defeat Slinger: located in back room inside compound
. Steal keycard: obtained by defeating Kronos Titan
. Destroy main frame and guards: located just outside Slinger's room

Remarks :
. the map for this mission is in Warburg, the inside of the base is similar to the first mission of Ernesto Hess TF.

Tips :
. most of the outdoor map can be skipped, only the Kronos need to be defeated (and the group in front of the base door). Usually, the Kronos can be pulled from the river.
. Slinger, at some point will call large amounts of robotic pets. So, better proceed in that order inside the base : 1) destroy mainframe and guards 2) assault Slinger while someone picks the rifle in the safe.
. the Oreste Rifle has only one use : debuff and help defeat Miss Liberty in mission #4.

Mission 3 : Defeat Future Freedom Phalanx

Mission Objectives :
. Defeat Numina, Sister Psyche, Back Alley Brawler, Manticore (and his associated longbow spawn).

Remarks :
. the action takes place in a future ruined Atlas Park.
. there is a random "phase shift" effect that drifts around the map, trapping you in between the future and present time; this will make you intangible at random for a fairly long duration.

Tips :
. stand in top of the broken Atlas globe. First, Manticore won’t follow, second you can delay heroes by applying –Fly on them.
. Defeat Order : Numina (teammates buff including fortitude), Sister Psyche (Psi damage), Back Alley Brawler, Manticore (no travel power).

Mission 4 : Assault Vindicator Base

Mission Objectives :
. Steal access code: defeat Vindicators (Malaise, Swan, Luminary, Mynx, Valkyrie) to obtain
. Find base key: found in south room of second level
. Defeat Ms. Liberty: found in east room of second level

Remarks :
. this map is an indoor tech complex.
. Vindicators will be lvl53.
. picking the key triggers an ambush.

Tips :
. Defeat order : Malaise (Psi Damage, pets, fear), Swan (psi damage), Luminary, Mynx (Elude), Valkyrie (Resurrect).
. the Base Key can be picked by a stealthed char, either by cleaning the key room alone or by teleporting teammates.
. Use the Oreste Rifle to weaken Miss Liberty.

Mission 5 : Destroy Statesman and Freedom Phalanx

Mission Objectives :
. Defeat the Freedom Phalanx : Numina, Sister Psyche, Manticore, Positron, Synapse, Citadel, Back Alley Brawler, Statesman

Remarks :
. this takes place in Atlas Park.
. Freedom Phalanx will be lvl54.

Tips and Strategies :
. Defeat Order : Numina (teammates buff including fortitude), Sister Psyche (Psi damage), ... Statesman (probably the strongest).
. Pulling is the key. Each time you’ll pick more than two heroes, you’ll have to exit map and possibly logout for 5 mins to have a new spawn.
. The Shivans are essential. Each teammate absolutely needs to have a full set of 5 shivans. In some case, the team will have to head to Bloody Bay at some point in this mission so as to pick new Shivans sets (leaving at least one teammate in the SF map).
. The brutes are essential, especially the stone ones who can go forever Granite (no Tier9 crash). Two Granite brute seems a good minimum (one backup in case the main tank fall) but a third brute (whatever the defense line) may help managing the aggro and hitting the Heroes.
. The corrs are also essential. One /rad and two /kin seems to work well. The /rad and the first /kin for the targeted hero, the second /kin to delay a second hero. A /thermal can be a nice addition but he can’t replace a /kin due to the lack of debuffs.

. here is the overall strategy :
1) someone pulls one hero (no need to stick to the suggested defeat order – as this only applies when two heroes come – just pick the best choice for a 1-2 hero(es) pull) then retreat breaking LoS (the place behind the Hall stairs works good). A “no damage” power is rumored to be more efficient in picking a single hero. In any case, removing some enhancements to slot with range enhancements for the SF duration may improve the pulling part
The puller tend to die each time, though this can be countered if someone recall him and/or he hits Phase Shift (there is a temp power). Another road is to let him die and “Vengeance the whole team” before rezzing him.
2) If one hero comes alone, use shivans, debuff the hero, buff the team and crush him. If two come, one of them will have to be delayed, usually using half of the shivans, one /kin corr and possibly one brute while everyone else will concentrate on the other (and most dangerous) hero. If more than two come, give up, exit mission and re-enter it (if you already crushed some heroes) or reset mission by all quiting 5 minutes (if you still have 8 heroes to defeat).
3) Pull another hero

. on “two-heroes pull”, the Warburg temp powers can greatly reduce the defeat time, especially when you’re facing Numina or Sister Psyche who tend to be a pain for the Stone brutes.
. always summon pets (shivans and others) before buffing team (this applies to Vengeance as well).
. the heroes have a very high toHit buff. As an example, even double-debuffed, a hero will crush too often through a Elude stalker if he doesn’t stack purple insps (usually 2-3). Stock as many purple insps as you can and don’t hesitate to go back to Pocket D, arena or your base to refill your tray after each fight (succeeded or not).

. definely, this SF CAN’t be completed by casual gamers. :lol:
You need precise archetypes, at least 3 corrs (2Kin, 1 rad), 2 stone brutes. If you miss one of them, I don't think you can succeed (alternate teams to try with MM debuffing lines)
You need constant defense insp refilling, if you miss them, you’ll go down without defeating a hero.
You need the shivans. If you miss them, you’ll fail.
You need as much lvl50 as possible. 54 is already overwhelming to a lvl50, it’s even worse for a lvl49 (not talking about the fact that a non-50 will be reluctant in dying repeatedly, which the SF requires).
You need a good puller. As long as you can’t pull 1-2 heroes at a time, you will be overwhelmed and crushed.

The final mission is the pinnacle of this SF. If the team has some hard time in missions 1-4, it’s probably better to just give up.

Last and most important, you need patience. you can be lucky and complete the whole SF in three hours.
But you can really have bad pulls and restart the final mission multiple times (on our first success, the final mission took us 5 hours, yeah we really had bad pulls ! ).
Pick a team who fits the prerequisites and is ready to stay. Needless to say that someone quitting the team (especially corr or brute) will screw everything, thus making everyone ... very pissed.

Final note about alternative strategies :
. there is a strategy based on rush the eight heroes applying 8 or more warburg debuffs at the same time and vengeance on team plus Shivans. It has been tested several times on Union and the best result was three defeated heroes before the teamwipe. Considering the required time to gather the warburg temp powers, this can be very frustrating.
. I’ve also heard about “8 Dominators team” attempts but for all that I know, it has been very fun but never succeeded.


Personal notes :
. this has been written between two meetings, at work, I hope it's not too full of typos and barbarisms (and yes, english isn't my native language) :)
. I used a lot the great ParangonWiki RSF Guide (http://paragonwiki.com/index.php?title=Lord_Recluse_Strike_Force). My thanks to them for the great work !
. this isn't and will never be a final guide to the RSF, more a compilation of various experiences which you may already know but which will, I hope, help those who haven't yet tried the LRSF :)

cheers,

Moondust, archvilain, servant of Recluse

[Darknesse]

there is a strategy based on rush the eight heroes applying 8 or more warburg debuffs at the same time and vengeance on team plus Shivans. It has been tested several times on Union and the best result was three defeated heroes before the teamwipe. Considering the required time to gather the warburg temp powers, this can be very frustrating.

I have tried this 3 times and succeeded every time. Each time we hit them with 8 debuffs, hit ourselves and our shivans with the buff nukes, as well as vengance and just walked over them.

[razoras]

I can't wait until the Statesman Task Force, so we heroes get to experience the forced metagaming the RSF has joyously brought villainside.

[Charon]

I really want to try and RSF just for the storyline and experience of it...

But obviously, I'm getting the feeling that it's not going to be possible for me to have much fun on it, since I'm going to have to be watching where I use my nukes and my shivans... And as a Stone Brute, it's basically going to be all on me in the last battle, which isn't going to be too cool when it's the first time I do it. :(

[Tgx]

You're right, Darknesse.
And you can blame my limited english and the short time I took to write this post :)

As stated in Parangonwiki, some have succeeded several times with the rush strategy.
On Union, as far as I know, there were three attempts (I was in one of them) to try it and the best result were three heroes down. I recently asked people on Vigilance who tried and failed too.

My point was considering the required time to gather all the Warburg temp powers (as unfortunately, I've never been in any "fully ready team" : we always had people lacking temp powers and/or shivans), the failure tend to piss players a lot :)

I also noticed that Parangonwiki states it's impossible to have a proper pull while it was the road we followed.
It took us 5 hours but we managed to pull at worst two heroes at a time.

So if you have : time (and patience), 2 strong brutes (Stone), 3 corrs (2 /kin, 1/rad) and a pack of shivans in every player's backpack, it works.

The thing I really missed was Vengeance.

Moondust.

[Vendel]

So if you have : time (and patience), 2 strong brutes (Stone), 3 corrs (2 /kin, 1/rad) and a pack of shivans in every player's backpack, it works.



I just find this funny.

So those 5 and the last three are open....weeeee come all you MM and Stalkers.

Maybe Cryptic forgot that Brutes are not tanks when they made the SF. And no Defenders either. *shrug*

[The Widowed]

So those 5 and the last three are open....weeeee come all you MM and Stalkers.
But no Dominators because Dominators are icky, huh? :(

*wonders how many Dominators it would take to simultaneously cast their aggro-free Confuses on Statesman before it would instantly sink in and they could sit back, watch Statesman wipe out his buddies and move in when he's the last one standing....* >:]

[Vendel]

But no Dominators because Dominators are icky, huh? :(




Well I figure a Dom would have less of a problem getting one of those spots over a MM or a stalker...thats why I din't bring it up.


get thicker skin wids :P

[The Widowed]

Well I figure a Dom would have less of a problem getting one of those spots over a MM or a stalker...thats why I din't bring it up.


get thicker skin wids :P
Yeah, sure. We know how you feel about Dominators, Mr. Dogpile-the-Dominator-in-Warburg! :P

[Charon]

Yeah, sure. We know how you feel about Dominators, Mr. Dogpile-the-Dominator-in-Warburg! :P
I was talking to a guy I know named Mindswipe, he's a level 50 Mind/Psi Dom. He's managed to do the RSF six times already, all of them fairly easily, I hear. So Bloodywedd and any other doms shouldn't really have that much trouble finding an RSF team, if you know where to look.

Although, he did say he had plenty of failed attempts to his name, as well. ;)

[The Widowed]

You know, "Mindswipe" is a pretty cool name.... :think:

What was Mindswipe's secret? Confuse? Chained Mass Hypnosis? Total Domination + Telekinesis? Terrify? :D

[Solos]

The heroes in the RSF have specila code on them so when they are confused they just stand there, not attacking the others. Otherwise confusion stacking would be too powerful i guess.

[Vendel]

Yeah, sure. We know how you feel about Dominators, Mr. Dogpile-the-Dominator-in-Warburg! :P


Thats just when im playing Vendel.....I mean your just begging to be tp/trip mined....begging


But I love doms....just ask Angela Pain :D

[8 Ball]

The heroes in the RSF have specila code on them so when they are confused they just stand there, not attacking the others. Otherwise confusion stacking would be too powerful i guess.


Because...god forbid our powers should work properly against a tough foe, I depise it when the Devs "Intervine" like that.

[Charon]

Because...god forbid our powers should work properly against a tough foe, I depise it when the Devs "Intervine" like that.
Yeah, I mean in comic book terms it'd be a good tactic to mess with States' head and get him to cave Synapse's face in.

[Meltman]

Yeah, but then all the rabid fanboys would complain about Statesman acting totally out of character and being poorly written.

[Jumproot]

hi :)

I run the RSF quite often and have attempted every mission several times on an all-dominator team. we've discovered some fairly interesting things.

to extend what solos has stated previously, the devs have coded the eight heroes of the final mission with several abilities that are not present in any other NPC in the game. if they are confused, they will attack each other but will not do any damage.

in that vein, if they are controlled in any other manner, they will break out of it when they detect their buddies are in danger; which I suppose really makes sense, as mind dominators are able to put nearly every hero out of commission with a single application of mesmerize. this tactic was used quite often in the other missions of the RSF; one or two mind dominators kept the majority of the heroes in the corner, restfully napping away, while the remaining 6 or so dominators (now in domination mode) were able to easily plow through the mez protection of the attacking heroes, keeping them held.

furthermore, the fact that the heroes of the final mission are (at least) +4 to everyone on the team means that nearly every negative status effect on them is drastically weakened (I don't remember the exact numbers, but I'm sure that it would take no less than five stacked drain psyches on a single AV to completely halt regen)

while it is frustrating that dominators are among the least effective AT at dealing with the RSF, I feel that stalkers have it far worse than we do. It would take several dozen (at least) coordinated AS's to down a single hero, not factoring in the massive regen that said hero will have. Furthermore, I believe that nearly every hero in the RSF has an AoE attack that can instantly decimate any and every MM pet if they are not careful.

I don't think I'll ever have as many SHOEs from the RSF as someone wll get HOs for raiding hami for the same amount of time. I do, however, feel that defeating the freedom phalanx and the vindicators all at once with seven of my closest villainous friends (even if all but one are corruptors) is far, far more satisfying and rewarding than the heroes' ability to say 'HAY YOU GUYS I ATTACKED HAMI ONCE AND AM NOW PARKING MYSELF ON THE ROCK WAITING FOR MY HAMI-O TO BE GIVEN TO ME'

even though it's undebatable that there are balancing issues with the RSF, I feel that it does more right than hamidon raids do, and hope that the devs learned enough from the creation and studying of the RSF to prevent the statesman TF from having the same pitfalls.

I apologize for the lengthy and boring lecture but I have a tremendous amount of time to kill today (wooo thanksgiving) and do not have access to my home computer.

[Meltman]

Hmmm, I wonder if any strategies will change after the changes to it in Issue 8. Do you guys know of anybody that's attempted it on the Test Server?

[RedSwitchblade]

Endurance aside, I look forward to being in perma-domination mode if played correctly. :P

[Solos]

Endurance aside, I look forward to being in perma-domination mode if played correctly. :P

2 speed boosts and a hasten. I managed to chain 2 dominations together today, then hasten dropped. :(

[The Widowed]

How is it possible to do perma-Domination when the Domination gauge is full while Domination's running and can't be filled again until Domination crashes? :think:

[RedSwitchblade]

I was being overambitious, SORRY!

[Solos]

How is it possible to do perma-Domination when the Domination gauge is full while Domination's running and can't be filled again until Domination crashes? :think:

Rearrange that sentence and take into account +recharge and you have your answer!

It is possible to do perma-Domination. The Domination gauge is full while Domination's running.

All you need is enough +recharge to make domination recharge in under 90 seconds.

[The Widowed]

Rearrange that sentence and take into account +recharge and you have your answer!

It is possible to do perma-Domination. The Domination gauge is full while Domination's running.

All you need is enough +recharge to make domination recharge in under 90 seconds.
But you can't slot Domination for recharge. As far as I know, you can't slot Domination at all. O_o

[Seadevil]

But you can't slot Domination for recharge. As far as I know, you can't slot Domination at all. O_o

He's probably talking about Hasten?

[Jade_Dragon]

It's not perma Domination, it's double Domination. When Domination recharges before the previous activation wears off. In theory you could have Domination up permanently, but in practice that's probably only possible with Hasten. And since Hasten can't be perma, I'm guessing that there has to be a period when Domination is allowed to wear off.

I also wonder if the crashing of the first Domination can prevent it from being perma. I've never done it, so I wouldn't know, but if the first Domination crash empties the Domination bar, it will have to be filled again before it can be reactivated. So in that case two Dominations is the most you could chain in a row.

[Charon]

But you can't slot Domination for recharge. As far as I know, you can't slot Domination at all. O_o
You don't slot it.

With a few Speed Boosts and Hasten, you could have Domination back in no time (I.E., before the original domination drops.) Smack the power when it starts to flash in the upper right corner, and you'll go domination all over again.

Silly Wids. ;)

[Solos]

It takes hasten and 2 speed boosts.

[The Widowed]

And now I get to educate you non-Dominator players and illustrate to you why perma-Domination and double-Domination--contrary to what the gallery of idiots may be babbling on the Big Official Forums--are nothing more than beautiful myths. :P

http://coh.tritonius.com/PermaDom1.jpg

http://coh.tritonius.com/PermaDom2.jpg

http://coh.tritonius.com/PermaDom3.jpg

http://coh.tritonius.com/PermaDom4.jpg

[Meltman]

before the original domination drops.

*points*

[The Widowed]

http://coh.tritonius.com/PermaDom4.jpg
*points to the upper right*

Can't charge it if it's 100%, you know. I've tried. Spamming Psionic Darts doesn't help, either.

[Meltman]

I said nothing about charging it.

[Jade_Dragon]

Widdy, the point is that you DON'T charge it. It's already at 100%, and ALWAYS at 100%, as long as Domination is running. Thus, if Domination recharges before the last Domination ends, you can trigger it again on the SAME 100% Domination bar.

Get someone (three someones) to put three Speed Boosts on you, or get Hasten and two Speed Boosts. (Thus only needing two someones) Or if you like, you can get Hasten and two Accellerate Metabolisms, or Hasten, and one each of SB and AM. If my calculations are correct, all you need is just over 120% recharge boost. (So hasten and one SB misses it by that much...)

The point I would test is whether the first Domination running out WHILE THE SECOND DOMINATION IS RUNNING causes the bar to empty. Theoretically, the second Domination should push the bar back to 100%, if it's actually holding it there. If that's the case, then perma-Domination is possible. If the Domination bar empties while the second Domination is running, then perma-Domination is impossible, and it's only double Domination.

[Malibu Sally]

And if it's perma, you can expect a major nerf in the future.:|

[The Widowed]

You didn't have to say anything.

Domination works like this: You gain a few points everytime you launch an attack and a few more points everytime that attack hits. It's not a time-based recharge; It's action-based. Therefore, Hasten and Recharge boosters like Speed Boost won't do a thing to it. The only thing that will make Domination charge faster is to fire off more attacks and hit more targets.

IIRC, it used to be 2 points for each attack and 5 points for each hit...before Issue 8. Now there's a whole different set of numbers, including a new multiplying variable (the size of your team). It's still not going to make your Domination perma, however, simply because of Domination's mechanics. Domination will eventually drop, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Jade_Dragon]

Domination itself DOES recharge, and it can be effected by Hasten and Speed Boost. You can see this if you watch the icon grow from its small size to its full size when it is "ready". You still cannot activate Domination unless your bar is over 95%, though, so even though the icon is now full size, it will not "light up". If Domination is going, though, the bar will be at 100%, and the button will light up, being ready to fire again.

Domination, like any other power, is a power, it has an activation time, an end cost, and a recharge. The mechanic that suppresses Domination until the bar fills is on TOP of that, but as long as Domination follows the same rules as other click powers, its behavior should be similar under the same circumstances.

In essense, once you have built up Domination, you can keep it going indefinately. That's the theory anyway. If you want to disprove it, actually have Domination recharge before it runs out and show that you can't click on it.

(I just did a test, by the way, and you can confirm that the Domination icon does "flash" when it recharges, even if you can't reactivate it immediately. I can't test it with Domination still running, though, and I don't have Hasten, either, so I'd have to either get three Kins to help me, or copy over to Test and respec.)

[The Widowed]

Be sure to Fraps a video and post it. I'd like to see it with my own eyes. :think:

[Jade_Dragon]

Be sure to Fraps a video and post it. I'd like to see it with my own eyes. :think:

So would I, actually.

Solos claims that he was able to chain two, so the principle appears to be sound. If not for that, I might hold out the hope that Domination can't be clicked on, even if it recharges, if it is already running. As it is, I would still like to see it verified if the Domination bar empties after the first Domination expires, or if it remains full.

The best test would be three Kinetics, since that would not require Hasten and thus could be maintained indefinately. Hm. With the winter event going, it might be possible to get Defenders and Controllers to help out with the test. We're having hero and villain teams again, right? I could respec Joe Everyman into Speed Boost on Test. (And it'd have to be Test anyway since I have no Kins on Virtue)

[Solos]

And now I get to patronise you uneducated Dominator players and illustrate to you why perma-Domination and double-Domination--contrary to what you may think--are infact completely possible. :P

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7883/permadom1cud4.png

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/3602/permadom2cia3.png

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5752/permadom3csq1.png

http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/3361/permadom4cdp9.png

http://img334.imageshack.us/img334/5350/permadom5chb7.png


Note: I wasn't doing it on this occasion. This was simply for Widowed's benefit as he only understands
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/3445/textoverimagesti6.png


Perhaps you would also like a Positron post acknowledging it. (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=dominator&Number=5881129&Searchpage=1&Main=5856554&Words=domination+Positron&topic=&Search=true#Post5881129)

[Malibu Sally]

Perhaps you would also like a Positron post acknowledging it. (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=dominator&Number=5881129&Searchpage=1&Main=5856554&Words=domination+Positron&topic=&Search=true#Post5881129)
In that case, don't get used to it. This WILL be fixed/nerfed/corrected.

[Jade_Dragon]

What you need are the following images:

1) Showing Domination activating, with a full Domination bar.

2) Showing Domination recharged, while Domination going. ("Lit up")

3) Showing Domination activating again, with Domination bar still full.

4) Showing the first Domination "crashing", and the bar remaining full.

5) Showing Domination activating a third time, Domination bar still full.

You actually only need to get to step 1 in battle. Once you have Domination going, all you have to do is stand there and keep the Speed Boosts on you.

From reports in the thread linked to, a third and even fourth Domination is possible, but from all appearances it is fairly hard to maintain. If you forget and let Domination fall, or if Hasten or one of your Speed Boosts are allowed to wear off, the chain will end and you'll have to start all over again. So I would say perma-Domination is possible, but extremely difficult to maintain. (And requires the cooperation of at least two other players who must be Corruptors)

(And Solos, I have to ask if this is such an obviously true thing and something so many Dominators are doing all the time, why HASN'T anyone posted a picture of it? Are you trying to hide something?)

[Solos]

So...anyone have any /kins and want to do it?


EDIT: Also, i'm pretty sure nobody is stubborn enough to not believe all those posts on the Dominator boards. And if they are they can go and get conclusive proof for themselves.

[Jade_Dragon]

So...anyone have any /kins and want to do it?

EDIT: Also, i'm pretty sure nobody is stubborn enough to not believe all those posts on the Dominator boards. And if they are they can go and get conclusive proof for themselves.

I'm not saying I don't believe them. All I'm saying is if it's true, why doesn't someone go and snap a picture? If nothing else, it'll put a stop to threads like these.

And as I said, I'll be happy to bring along Joe Everyman, on Test, and assuming we can get together a hero/villain team.

[Jumproot]

hi :)

domination mode definately can be doublestacked. anyone saying it's not possible hasn't tried hard enough and is refusing to accept the large amount of evidence solos already posted.

it's easy to doublestack dom as it is; just use the force of nature accolade and hasten, that's all you need.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/mawee03/requests/dom1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/mawee03/requests/dom2.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/mawee03/requests/dom3.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/mawee03/requests/dom4.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/mawee03/requests/dom5.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/mawee03/requests/dom6.jpg

using the force of nature accolade and hasten, they only overlap for about a second and a half.

if you're not convinced even with these pictures, I'll happily do it in game upon your request.

edit:
And now I get to educate you non-Dominator players and illustrate to you why perma-Domination and double-Domination--contrary to what the gallery of idiots may be babbling on the Big Official Forums--are nothing more than beautiful myths.

wow wids, way to both offend someone who's practically been idolizing you, and at the same time, make yourself look like a complete elitist. that must have taken quite a bit of effort.

[Jade_Dragon]

Ah-ha. I didn't know there was an accolade that boosted recharge. Any idea what the boost on that is?

I'm guessing that it must be about 60%. So it can be done solo after all. Since the bar doesn't drop when the double stacked Domination wears off, it can be activated again, assuming it recharges again before it wears off.

What's with your XP though? Is that a full bar of debt? Or did you just stop within a couple of XP of levelling? :D

[edit] And it's important to note, Widdy doesn't have as much a low opinion of the people on the Official Boards, but more their moderation. I wouldn't take it personally.

[The Widowed]

wow wids, way to both offend someone who's practically been idolizing you, and at the same time, make yourself look like a complete elitist. that must have taken quite a bit of effort.
Say what? So I bitterly despise the Official Forums and I don't believe things that run counter to my own observations. "Hey, Wids, if you do this trick you can make the sky turn pink!" "Yeah, right. The sky doesn't work like that. It's never been pink a day in my life."

Mind telling me how that makes me elitist? :eyebrow:

And I still think this is a bug. That bar has gone straight to zero everytime Domination has crashed on me. Barring whatever proof Solos can puke up, why on Earth should I think that gauge isn't going to crash to zero once my time is up when it hasn't failed to crash to anything but zero up till now? Would it have been better if I had said "Oh, okay, I believe you," even though it could have turned out to be just another urban legend?

Well, if choosing skepticism over gullibility makes me elitist, then I guess that's what I am. And I'll still think the Big Fancy Overhyped Official Forums and all of its fifty-billion fascist ninja mods, pathological whiners and angry buttheads are a steaming pile of digital colon blow till the day the internet burns out, too. :grr:

[Jade_Dragon]

Cut your losses, Wids. Look at the pics. If you can't believe your own eyes, what can you believe?

When Domination crashes, the Domination bar drops to zero. While Domination is running, the Domination bar is forced to full. That means that if Domination crashes while a second application is still running, it will NOT drop to zero. (It actually drops to zero but then is immediately pushed back to full, but that probably doesn't appear on the bar) Since you have never experienced having Domination running twice, your experience doesn't apply.

Your only other alternative is to believe that Jumproot is lying to you, and has altered the pics to make it look like something has happened that didn't. Is that what you're saying?

(Edit, BTW, looking more closely at the pic and after checking into the characteristics of the Force of Nature accolade, I can see that solo it is only possible to have double Domination. You can't make it perma since Force of Nature will wear off and Recharge will drop back down to Hasten's 70%. It will probably reasonably take 3 Kins or 5 Rads to actually make it perma)

[The Widowed]

Did I say that I didn't believe what I saw? No, I'm saying that this has to be a bug. You only get one Domination gauge, not two. So if it's already sitting at 100%, how can you charge it back up to 90-100% twice, recharge or no recharge?

[Malibu Sally]

And I'll still think the Big Fancy Overhyped Official Forums and all of its fifty-billion fascist ninja mods, pathological whiners and angry buttheads are a steaming pile of digital colon blow till the day the internet burns out, too. :grr:
Are you absolutely sure it's fifty billion and not 49,999,999,999 or 50,000,000,001?:P

[Jade_Dragon]

Did I say that I didn't believe what I saw? No, I'm saying that this has to be a bug. You only get one Domination gauge, not two. So if it's already sitting at 100%, how can you charge it back up to 90-100% twice, recharge or no recharge?

As I said, what I think is happening is as long as Domination is running, it forces the Domination bar to 100%. This is probably so you don't see Domination decaying or moving back and forth at 95-100% while running Domination. So when the first Domination wears off, you have a conflict between the first Domination, which wants to set the bar to 0, and the second bar, which wants to set it back to 100%.

It really isn't a bug, but it is an unintended interplay between the mechanics of a Power, and the intended behavior of the Domination Bar. Since Domination has to recharge, the devs set a value that seemed reasonable for the amount of time it would take to build back up the bar. The Power really is suppose to "recharge" when the bar gets full, but because of the way the game works that wasn't possible.

Probably the best overall solution would be to change Domination so it doesn't keep setting the Domination bar to 100 while it's running. This might be confusing to some people, especially if it drops below 95%, but that shouldn't effect gameplay, as dropping below 95% shouldn't effect Domination once it's running. Then when Domination drops, it empties the bar. This would allow double Domination (assuming you still have more than 95% Domination when it recharges) but will prevent perma Domination, as the first crash will prevent the second Domination from being reapplied. (Unless, again, you somehow manage to build back up to 95% again before the second Domination wears off -- and quite frankly, if you can build Domination that fast you DESERVE for it to be perma :D)

A second solution would be, as one poster recommended, dropping the bar to zero when Domination is ACTIVATED. However, that means you'll be able to build towards Domination while Domination is running. This will be an advantage, as you'll have a bit of a head start towards the next Domination when it wears off, but I don't know if it's what the devs intended.

Making it so you can't click Domination while Domination is going would be another solution, but would prevent double Domination. (As would the last) It should be possible, though, it just means changing the code that says "keep this grey as long as the Dom bar is less than 95%" and adding that it should keep it grey while Domination is running, too. I don't think making it so Domination can't be stacked will solve anything, it's not that it can be stacked that is the problem, it's that it can be reactivated and essentially reset the duration.

The worst solution would be for them to increase the recharge back to 300 seconds. This would make it much harder to get double Domination, but not totally impossible. (It could still be achieved with 4 Kins and Hasten) And this would definately make it much harder for those who DON'T have Hasten to solo.

[Malibu Sally]

I have to agree with Wids. This has to be a bug.... or at least the possibility of multiple Dominations was not figured into the design of the archtype. This will get corrected. So those of you who are using it, don't get used to it. The Devs track record in regards to click powers that are perma'd, or close to being perma'd is clear: It will not remain that way for long.

[Jade_Dragon]

I have to agree with Wids. This has to be a bug.... or at least the possibility of multiple Dominations was not figured into the design of the archtype. This will get corrected. So those of you who are using it, don't get used to it. The Devs track record in regards to click powers that are perma'd, or close to being perma'd is clear: It will not remain that way for long.

When I say it's not a bug, I mean that it's not a mistake in the code that can be fixed. In fact, additional code will have to be ADDED to fix it. In practice, however, that's probably an irrelevant detail.

The point here is not that it's a bug, however, but that it exists. The argument up to this point was that it didn't exist. Well, it does exist.

[Malibu Sally]

When I say it's not a bug, I mean that it's not a mistake in the code that can be fixed. In fact, additional code will have to be ADDED to fix it. In practice, however, that's probably an irrelevant detail.

The point here is not that it's a bug, however, but that it exists. The argument up to this point was that it didn't exist. Well, it does exist.
[color=hotpink]And I'm saying that there is no point debating whether something is a bug, a mistake, or an oversite when it is doomed to be changed so that its effect is no longer what it currently is.[.color]

[Jade_Dragon]

And I'm saying that there is no point debating whether something is a bug, a mistake, or an oversite when it is doomed to be changed so that its effect is no longer what it currently is.

"Irrelevant detail", he said. Here today, gone tommorow?

[Malibu Sally]

Endurance aside, I look forward to being in perma-domination mode if played correctly. :P
"Irrelevant detail", he said. Here today, gone tommorow?
Oh jesus h....

It's ALL irrelevent. Why? Because IT WILL NOT LAST.



Anyone who is planning their build and who they team with around this multiple Domination exploit(and yes... regardless of its origin, it IS an exploit) is a fool because it will be changed/fixed.

[Jade_Dragon]

Oh jesus h....

It's ALL irrelevent. Why? Because IT WILL NOT LAST.



Anyone who is planning their build and who they team with around this multiple Domination exploit(and yes... regardless of its origin, it IS an exploit) is a fool because it will be changed/fixed.

Well, that's just it. I agree with you. However, I think in Red's case it's just curiosity about it. I would be curious, too. However, looking into it I don't think it's really going to add anything special, it takes teammates to achieve it, or maybe you can keep it going for a very short time with Hasten and an accolade. I had already decided that it wasn't going to be worth it, I'm not going to get Hasten with Morgon, not as long as I'm mainly solo.

Widdy was saying that there was something wrong with Domination, that it wasn't behaving as expected. But it is behaving as expected, if you understand that Powers recharge at a certain rate, and the Domination bar is just added on top of that, instead of replacing it. It may not be what is INTENDED, but I understood what was going on, enough to anticipate the behavior. I mainly wanted to see pictures to confirm the behavior, and clear up some details which would effect how easy or difficult it would be to maintain it.

Call it a "bug" or an "unintended interaction" or whatever you want, but the main thing here is to understand the behavior, and to confirm that yes, in fact, it is happening, and people are not just making it up.

And if you don't mind I'm going to retreat back into silly nonsequitors because that was just too much verbage.

[The Widowed]

Are you absolutely sure it's fifty billion and not 49,999,999,999 or 50,000,000,001?:P
When in doubt, go with the higher estimate. Apparently, it's the right thing to do if I want to keep my Platinum Elitist Club Membership card. And we are talking about Statesman's Playhouse here.... :p

[color=hotpink]And I'm saying that there is no point debating whether something is a bug, a mistake, or an oversite when it is doomed to be changed so that its effect is no longer what it currently is.[.color]
Your hot pink text has failed you, Sally. :D

[Malibu Sally]

Ok, I retract the "fool" statement because it is a slam at Red, which was not my intention.(my apologies, Red) But if Red is curious, you can bet the house that there more than a few who are already going full bore into centering their entire builds around this... for THEM, my statement stands. I cannot wait to laugh at their howls of protest and gnashing of teeth when Devs drop the nerf hammer.>:]

[Malibu Sally]

Your hot pink text has failed you, Sally. :D
I think that is the fifth Horseman of the Apocolypse.




I just LOVE using that line. :D

[The Widowed]

One day, we might even hear an end to Sally's howls of protest and gnashing of teeth when the Devs make Defiance "cool". :D

[Malibu Sally]

One day, we might even hear an end to Sally's howls of protest and gnashing of teeth when the Devs make Defiance "cool". :D
That will only happen when they give it to you uppity scrappers.:P

[Jade_Dragon]

Ok, I retract the "fool" statement because it is a slam at Red, which was not my intention.(my apologies, Red) But if Red is curious, you can bet the house that there more than a few who are already going full bore into centering their entire builds around this... for THEM, my statement stands. I cannot wait to laugh at their howls of protest and gnashing of teeth when Devs drop the nerf hammer.>:]

Yeah, I don't doubt it will be nerfed, the only question is how.

And now for the non sequitor: Now, when you hear the secret word in Statesman's Playhouse, what do we do?

Scream real loud!!!

Right. Now let's try it out.

Nerf.

SCREAM!!!!!!!

[Malibu Sally]

Right. Now let's try it out.

Nerf.

SCREAM!!!!!!!
Weak..... it should be:


SCREEEEAAAAMMMMMMMM!!!!!:cool:

[Jade_Dragon]

Weak..... it should be:


SCREEEEAAAAMMMMMMMM!!!!!:cool:

My color-and-font-fu is weak...

[Solos]

Say what? So I bitterly despise the Official Forums and I don't believe things that run counter to my own observations. "Hey, Wids, if you do this trick you can make the sky turn pink!" "Yeah, right. The sky doesn't work like that. It's never been pink a day in my life."

Mind telling me how that makes me elitist? :eyebrow:

And I still think this is a bug. That bar has gone straight to zero everytime Domination has crashed on me. Barring whatever proof Solos can puke up, why on Earth should I think that gauge isn't going to crash to zero once my time is up when it hasn't failed to crash to anything but zero up till now? Would it have been better if I had said "Oh, okay, I believe you," even though it could have turned out to be just another urban legend?

Well, if choosing skepticism over gullibility makes me elitist, then I guess that's what I am. And I'll still think the Big Fancy Overhyped Official Forums and all of its fifty-billion fascist ninja mods, pathological whiners and angry buttheads are a steaming pile of digital colon blow till the day the internet burns out, too. :grr:

The sky does turn pink at some sun sets. I'd provide pictures but you'd probably accuse me of Photoshopping them.

What makes you elitist is disregarding the findings of many dominator players just because they post on the official forums. Trying to counter their findings using different conditions to those required for the desired outcome makes you an idiot. The AT boards have much more pooled knowledge and experience than this forum, yet you choose to ignore this because the moderators are strict. Besides, if we are going off prior advice, weren't you the person who told me ice blast sucks at PvP because it has no snipe?

[The Widowed]

The sky does turn pink at some sun sets. I'd provide pictures but you'd probably accuse me of Photoshopping them.
That's a pretty low opinion you have of me there, isn't it? :eyebrow:

What makes you elitist is disregarding the findings of many dominator players just because they post on the official forums. Trying to counter their findings using different conditions to those required for the desired outcome makes you an idiot.
Thanks. Appreciate it. Jerk. :grr:

The AT boards have much more pooled knowledge and experience than this forum, yet you choose to ignore this because the moderators are strict.
"Strict" isn't the word for it. We're talking about hired thugs who won't let you say the slightest bad thing about Cryptic or NCSoft or the moderators, who hide behind a shield of anonymity and who won't come forward and explain their actions. Not to mention that you're somehow overlooking all of the flame wars and politics and pandering and clique behavior and--pardon--elitism which is rife among the user base, all because you want to defend the official forums and this vast wealth of knowledge they supposedly have cornered. As if those insights can only be found on the official forums, rather than GameAmp or Cityofheroesonline or, yes, Cohguru....

Besides, if we are going off prior advice, weren't you the person who told me ice blast sucks at PvP because it has no snipe?
See? That's what happens when I listen to other people rather than my own observations. I've fought Xanatos and I've seen that he's definitely no joke in the arena, snipe or no snipe. Hmmph.

You know what, Solos? Nevermind. You've been quite the hostile prick lately and I don't see why I should give you the time of day anymore. Buh-bye. :grr:

All this middling crap over a stupid recharge exploit on a clickie, I swear.... :grr:

[Solos]

"Strict" isn't the word for it. We're talking about hired thugs who won't let you say the slightest bad thing about Cryptic or NCSoft or the moderators, who hide behind a shield of anonymity and who won't come forward and explain their actions. Not to mention that you're somehow overlooking all of the flame wars and politics and pandering and clique behavior and--pardon--elitism which is rife among the user base, all because you want to defend the official forums and this vast wealth of knowledge they supposedly have cornered. As if those insights can only be found on the official forums, rather than GameAmp or Cityofheroesonline or, yes, Cohguru....


I agree that the moderators are way too sensitive and delete posts for nothing. The crappy threaded system of the boards that causes all replies after the deleted post to be deleted as well doesn't help either. I also think Lighthouse is the worst things to happen to those forums with his PC bullshit and inability to recognise a joke (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Victory&Number=6848831&Searchpage=7&Main=6835440&Words=Lighthouse&topic=&Search=true#Post6848831). I also agree that a lot of the people on the server and general boards are a bunch of whiny cocks with nothing better to do than whine about how someone is going to interrupt their pretend party on the internet (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Virtue&Number=7232969&page=0&fpart=1). However, that doesn't mean that the knowledge of the people with a borderline Asperger's obsession for an AT is useless. Here we have maybe 5 people who play dominators (me, you, Jumproot, Red Switchblade and Grae) so there really is no comparison.


EDIT: Was the person who told you that Ice Blast sucked on the PvP boards? If so 90% of replies to "What is good at PvP?" threads are ironic.

[Jade_Dragon]

We've already resolved this, Solos. All you're doing at this point is fanning the flames again. Enough.

[UnSub]

I also think Lighthouse is the worst things to happen to those forums with his PC bullshit and inability to recognise a joke (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Victory&Number=6848831&Searchpage=7&Main=6835440&Words=Lighthouse&topic=&Search=true#Post6848831). I also agree that a lot of the people on the server and general boards are a bunch of whiny cocks with nothing better to do than whine about how someone is going to interrupt their pretend party on the internet (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Virtue&Number=7232969&page=0&fpart=1).

Whereas I see Lighthouse's reactions to those things to be a sign that he is better than CuppaJo at telling the forums how they should behave.

Lighthouse > CuppaJo, imo.