I suck at picking up chicks

[Noble]

I suck at picking up chicks. If circumstances don't get in the way, I strike out. I am just one of those horribly unlucky chaps who has the worst chances in the world. Maybe I should seriously consider a mail order bride.

[Blackbat]

Join the club, I'm horrible at those kinds of things.

[MajorMarvel]

the answer? Internet Dating websites :P

[Twilight]

Heh. You guys suck. Rumor has it, I am quite the stallion at this kind of thing...











And no, that rumor about ParagonCity.com guys helping me with pick up lines to catch my wife's attention are totally untrue.

[PawnOfFate]

Seriously, this is your problem.

Without confidence, you may as well be a 30 year old living in your parent's basement. You mustn't get discouraged... you can't get them all. I don't know your own personal "quirks" as it were... but most women that I'm around can forgive the cute faults if you can smile, make her laugh, and be able to hold your head high.

Confidence.

[Masked Revenger]

Seriously, this is your problem.

Without confidence, you may as well be a 30 year old living in your parent's basement. You mustn't get discouraged... you can't get them all. I don't know your own personal "quirks" as it were... but most women that I'm around can forgive the cute faults if you can smile, make her laugh, and be able to hold your head high.

Confidence.

QFT

Chris

[MajorMarvel]

Seriously, this is your problem.

Without confidence, you may as well be a 30 year old living in your parent's basement. You mustn't get discouraged... you can't get them all. I don't know your own personal "quirks" as it were... but most women that I'm around can forgive the cute faults if you can smile, make her laugh, and be able to hold your head high.

Confidence.

yeah really. Girls like Whit and confidence breeds whit. and if you keep getting rejected, its always good to think "well that woman is just a lesbian. She wasnt interested to begin with. time to turn off the gaydar and find a straight one"
and yes, I dont know how to spell Whit. maybe its Wite

[PawnOfFate]

Wit.

[Noble]

Seriously, this is your problem.

Without confidence, you may as well be a 30 year old living in your parent's basement. You mustn't get discouraged... you can't get them all. I don't know your own personal "quirks" as it were... but most women that I'm around can forgive the cute faults if you can smile, make her laugh, and be able to hold your head high.

Confidence.

I'm 22 and I haven't had a single date. I'm like the prequal to the 40-year old virgin.

not for lack of trying. I can have a shitload of confidence, and I'm actually over that last loss already, which really wasn't a good situation for an attempt anyway.

[Solario]

You and me both, man.

I just don't try. It's not that I don't act confident, it's just that I have zero idea how to get the conversation going. And figuring out if someone is interested before hand. I've reached the point where I just assume girls that are nice to me are either in a relationship or nice, uninterested caring people.

[Blackbat]

You and me both, man.

I just don't try. It's not that I don't act confident, it's just that I have zero idea how to get the conversation going. And figuring out if someone is interested before hand. I've reached the point where I just assume girls that are nice to me are either in a relationship or nice, uninterested caring people.


Wow, you might be alone for quite awhile like that. Women have changed over the years, but it's still rare for a woman to be the total aggressor. You almost have to take the first plunge if you want to get to know someone.

I just use the surroundings. If you're in a bookstore, and she's in a bookstore, it's a good possibility that she's into books. Start there, and you can work the coversation slowly onto other things.

Rejection can be as easy or as harsh as you let it.

[MajorMarvel]

you know what those two need? Prostitutes! Infact, Prostitutes for everybody!!

Actually, a friend of mine came up with this idea that when it comes to life, Its a good idea to loose it to a prostitute. Firstly he believes it builds confidence, also it gets that awkward first lay out of the way. That way its easier when it comes to dating. He says it works. I dont know, having not having to worry about such thing anymore, But its an idea

[Solario]

Yeah, but I only met girls at clubs and I fucking clubs. I don't really dance, which is another obstacle. I can keep a decent conversation going at a private party though. Of course I have such a difficult time determining if someone's interested that I don't make any moves what so ever. It's not so much rejection as I don't want to kill an interesting conversation or make someone unconformtable because I'm a hormonal teenager.

[Jade]

See, here's the thing. There's no "trick" to "picking up chicks". You know, being 22, and never having a date isn't that bad of a thing. I'm 22 and divorced.... I'll trade you. Just remember, every woman is different. Smile and be yourself. Or don't smile, if thats not your thing, but just be yourself. There are different things that everyone likes. Maybe reconsider what you really want/like in a woman and change the ones that you 'hit on'.

The internet is an awesome thing to. It takes away from that first moment awkwardness that everyone hates, and you already know that you have something in common, whether you meet her on a video game, or a internet dating site.

Just remember, be yourself. Someone that is totally fake is a COMPLETE turn off. If you are naturally a nerd, thats awesome. If you are naturally a jock, thats awesome too. I usually got for the nerds myself, but such hasn't been the case rescently. There's someone out there for you. Trust me, if there's someone as awesome as the guy im talking to right now, for me, then there is certainly someone out there for you.

[Eomatrix]

Okay here's a big tip from one who has been around women his whole life. Growing up with only an older sister kinda gives you an insight into women. I don't pretend to know everything about women, after all I'm a guy still. Women are more apt to say no to someone who is literally picking them up at a bar randomly, than they would to someone they know. The trick is, get on a girl's good side, be her friend. Of the 3 relationships I had, all of them lasted about 9 months. The strategy I always use is getting them to like me back, that way, once you ask them, they will probably say yes. Dancing really is a good way to get a girl, impress her with dance moves, nothing too weird, but impressive. If you aren't good at dancing, that's okay, like Dione said, being a phony (GAH TOO MUCH CATCHER IN THE RYE) is the worst thing you can do. If you aren't good at making jokes, there is a solution to that. You can read online comics and watch flash movies, then adapt the jokes. And DON'T use joke of the day jokes, those things suck. (Anyone who listens to Oldies 103.3 in the morning knows how horrible Jimmy's are) I know that sounds lame, but it can be useful. I know how incredibly arrogant this sounds, but I really am only trying to help. Getting into shape also really helps, I recently got into shape, and believe me, I've never felt better.

[Noble]

I've had tons of women friends. Nothin ever came of em.

EDIT - I take that back. I probably would have married a female friend I had known since kindergarden if I hadn't moved. That was just the first of many times were life's circumstances screwed me out of a meaningful relationship.

[TheImperial]

Seriously, this is your problem.

Without confidence, you may as well be a 30 year old living in your parent's basement. You mustn't get discouraged... you can't get them all. I don't know your own personal "quirks" as it were... but most women that I'm around can forgive the cute faults if you can smile, make her laugh, and be able to hold your head high.

Confidence.

That's a HUGE part of it.

Being "Cocky & Funny" is another big booster.

If anything, I've found what has helped me is the idea that I create my reality - people, especially women I'm flirting / involved with, are lucky guests there. I create the moment; I'm in control.

Whatever you do - don't be a wussy little boy all ready and eager to serve the ladies like a little puppy dog or slave. Anyway, I can get to rambling, so I'll spare you.

[Knightward]

Eomatrix's got a good point. I'd take a girl I've been friends with for a long time over ANY pickup any day.

[Grae Knight]

Try picking up guys, maybe your skill lies there?

[Meltman]

:shinner: Yeah, but I only met girls at clubs and I fucking clubs.

Dude, you have fucking clubs there? Denmark is awesome!

[Endless One]

That's a HUGE part of it.

Being "Cocky & Funny" is another big booster.

If anything, I've found what has helped me is the idea that I create my reality - people, especially women I'm flirting / involved with, are lucky guests there. I create the moment; I'm in control.

Whatever you do - don't be a wussy little boy all ready and eager to serve the ladies like a little puppy dog or slave. Anyway, I can get to rambling, so I'll spare you.

I have to admit, as a girl, I like guys to be a little bit cocky, not much or I'm intimidated. But direct eye contact goes a long way for me, I think that's attractive about someone. It will at least get you a conversation, no matter who you are, and its possible to talk your way throught the door after that if you can find something that interests her. I happen to think comic book geeks and gamers are hawt...so I guess I'm unique. Someone flashed me a Spawn tattoo and he got a date out of it. Personal grooming is HUGE by the way.

[Graphite]

Is in the same boat as Noble. Can someone throw me an oar? Bad analogy, but it wasn't until after college and started developing roots that I've started persuing women. The confidence thing is hit or miss for me, but I also realize I have a good eight years of catching up to do....

The trick on my end is I'm not interested in something casual, quick, or meaningless. Strangers on the street I am litterally not interested in. Can scan a room and go meh, one is kinda attractive. I don't like crowds and am not good at meeting new people. So the best solution I feel is to expand my social network.

Its like a complex problem I'm continuously trying to solve. The work is there, everything adds up right, I'm just not finding a solution. Of course, 'love' doesn't work that way. The shining grace is that my mom didn't date ether before meeting my dad, and they have been together almost thirty years. I'll get there. I'm just getting impatient without seeing any results or progress.

PS: from what I've seen the bar scene and dating sites doesn't really work ether, at least not for me. Clubs are to crowded, to physical, to primoral for me to really get into. To many people, and its not a place to talk. Eharmony has proven to be a definate waist of money. Good free analysis, but never got a solid wink back.

[razoras]

I met my wife online in a RP chatroom. Online FTW.

[Remianen]

That's a HUGE part of it.

Being "Cocky & Funny" is another big booster.

If anything, I've found what has helped me is the idea that I create my reality - people, especially women I'm flirting / involved with, are lucky guests there. I create the moment; I'm in control.

Church!

I've been told that I take this to an extreme where, women get the idea that I don't need them so they don't see anywhere they'd fit in my life. But it's true, I don't need them. Hell, I don't need my mother since she's already performed the duty I did need her for, against my primal wishes (I was a fighter that had to be yanked out :P). I chalk that up to women looking for the type of man that Imperial described in his last paragraph. I don't go for the okey-doke and no one's going to push me over without having a significant psychological advantage.

But the key, I've found, is to project the love you have for yourself outwardly. Now, if you don't have love for yourself, that's a serious problem. By that, I don't mean being conceited or anything like that. You have to believe that you would make a worthy addition to anyone's life and/or circle of friends. If you don't believe that, no one else will. Admittedly, I don't find myself able to just walk up to a woman and "spit game" but I don't do too badly, even with extremely high standards. I think the whole "friends first" thing can work extremely well if you have depth. It's the method I prefer because I believe my personality and my being, far outshines my looks (which is what you're judged on primarily when doing a "cold" pickup). You don't get a full view of that in 30 seconds.

I would disagree with Eomatrix though. You can't FAKE being funny. You also can't manufacture it by reading joke books and stuff because there's gonna come a time when you'll need to be spontaneously funny and that's when things will fall apart. I've seen friends trying to do it that way and it's never worked. One reason for that is the fact that you don't have to tell jokes to be funny. Facial expressions, vocal inflections, and just your surroundings, can all produce funny moments. I dunno, maybe it's me, but I think the joke book approach is really contrived.

As already advised, BE YOU. That's the only thing that really matters. Oh, and keep your eyes open. I'm willing to bet that there's at least one woman fairly close to you that have a "thing" for you but you don't see it. And because she's either too shy to tell you or doesn't want to "ruin" your relationship, you'll never find out unless you PAY ATTENTION. This has been my shortcoming for over 20 years now.

[Solario]

:shinner:

Dude, you have fucking clubs there? Denmark is awesome!

I hate you. :p

And yeah telling jokes isn't something I would say is an indication of how funny you are. There's something a lot more pure in making humourous observations or having a clever, fitting come-back to an insult.

[AfterglowNoMore]

Seriously, this is your problem.

Without confidence, you may as well be a 30 year old living in your parent's basement. You mustn't get discouraged... you can't get them all. I don't know your own personal "quirks" as it were... but most women that I'm around can forgive the cute faults if you can smile, make her laugh, and be able to hold your head high.

Confidence.
Yeah, move into the attic like the rest of us!

But yeah, I used to be like you. I used to have no luck with women. You've got to lose all the shame that you posess. Sometimes it helps to have friends like mine that are continually embarassing you when you try to hide from women until you as they so lovingly put it, "Grow a pair or go bake a cake with the rest of the women." So I got over it. Have I had my fair share of screw ups? Oh hell yeah! I've made the mistake of asking out women with their boyfriends standing next to them. I've walked up to women and used the line from "What Planet Are You From?" and asked if I could insert my penis into her. Hell, since then, I've had sex with an angry lesbian and reafirmed her stance against sleeping with men, and have solidified my place in hell by having sex in a church.

It all balances out.

[Alumette]

You know I was just having this conversation with a guy friend of mine who feels similarly: that he "has no game" and "can't" talk to women. Well I'll tell you what: if you think that way, it will become truth. Whether you realize it or not, how you feel about yourself projects onto other people. If you feel you "can't" talk to women, guess what the woman will think when she sees you.

The main complaint I hear from guys in a similar situation is, "I don't know how to start a conversation!" What I hear behind that is that the guy is making it more complicated than it is. It's no different than starting a conversation with anyone else. You don't have to wow her into taking off all her clothes and picking out colors for the bridesmaid's dresses in the first ten seconds. Just start talking to her. Remember that a conversation is a two-way street and she is responsible for half of it once it gets started. You have no way of predicting how she'll handle her half, so don't bother trying. Just get the ball rolling and react from there. No plan survives contact with the enemy.

Remember too that honesty goes a long way towards earning "points" in a conversation. So you started talking to her because you thought she was cute? TELL HER! Seriously, what woman on earth doesn't like a compliment? The worst that will happen is that she may say, "Oh, thank you. My boyfriend thinks so too" or something like that. But at least then she'll think you're a nice guy rather than some creep trying to hit on her. Keep it simple:

(in line at the grocery) "Man, we've been getting a lot of rain lately!"

(at the bookstore) "Excuse me, do you know where historical fiction is?" (this is great because it gives her a chance to be helpful and also gives her a 'hook' into the conversation--you revealed something about yourself that may spark her interest)

(at the student union) "Mind if I sit here?"

(at a cafe, while you work the crossword), "Hm. An 8-letter word for 'race winner'. Any ideas?"

Again, these are simple, everyday conversation starters. They require no game at all. They just require you to be nice, which you are.

Let's say you start a conversation (in line at the grocery store, say) and it goes smoothly, and then she puts her groceries in the cart and is never seen again. Great! You just had a nice conversation with someone and that was great. However if you find through your conversation that you really might be interested, ask her for her number or ask her to coffee before you never see her again! The worst thing that will happen is she'll say "No." But so what? No babies died because of that. Weapons-grade plutonium didn't fall into the hands of an evil supervillain because of that. Maybe she was just busy, or just getting over a bad relationship, or in a committed one, or a lesbian. Or maybe she wasn't interested in you. Big deal. Her loss. Chances are that no matter what, being asked out made her day. Who doesn't like flattery?

Also, let go of the idea that talking to people is something you can succeed or fail at. Everyone, except the rudest of persons, is perfectly fine with having a random, normal conversation with a stranger. So you may talk to her and have a nice conversation for two minutes and then never see her again. Big deal. You've likely brightened someone's day and had a bit of a chat with a nice human being. It's not a "failure" just because you didn't get her number or whatever. It's not a "failure" just because the conversation was about something sort of innocuous. What's wrong with two people talking pleasantly? The important thing is it's giving you practice and confidence. And more importantly, it's a thousand percent more likely to get you a phone number and a date than if you just sat there staring at her and beating yourself up agonizing over how to start a conversation and saying nothing.

Rem's point about not "needing" a woman is an important tie-in to this idea. Get over the idea that you "need" a woman. Yes, I believe that you sincerely want a date and you sincerely want romantic companionship. This is fine. But this attitude of "need" is self-defeating. First, it puts you in the mindset that if you talk to a woman and don't get a date or phone number out of it, that you've "failed" somehow. This then leads to a litany of self-derision: "I have no game, I suck at picking up women," and that leads to a self-fulfilling negative prophecy. Secondly, it causes you to throw off a needy vibe that most women don't want. Yes, women in general love to take care of people and people in any relationship of any gender like to be nurturing towards the object of their affection. But even the most liberated woman still wants a confident man. Not an uber-suave know-it-all Bond type necessarily, but just a capable human being who believes in himself and won't get rattled by a setback or obstacle. This is something I think everyone wants in a romantic partner, no matter their gender. So give up that sense that you're inflicting on yourself that you "have to" have a romantic interest (and its implied corollary that if you don't you're somehow defective), right now. Because it's total BS.

The best way to meet people (notice I said people and not women) is to get out and do stuff. Try something new. Learning is lifelong and if you keep expanding your exposure to people (not in THAT way, Joe! Put your pants on!), you'll up the probability of meeting new friends and in so doing, you'll up the probability of meeting a romantic prospect. Take up a new hobby, start a dance or language class, visit bookstores, what have you. Don't worry about it being "new" or looking like a n00b. Guess what--if it's a beginner-level class, chances are everyone in there will be a n00b.

And trust me, no woman goes to a pottery class at a community college thinking, "Gosh I hope I meet the man of my dreams here--I just *know* my Prince Pottery Genius is out there somewhere!" Most go hoping to make new friends and expand their social network, and make some cool ashtrays for Christmas gifts. So don't sweat it if you're a n00b at your pottery class (or what have you). "Good at pottery" is not a top-ten 'must' for a romantic relationship for most people.

And as has been stated, bars and clubs are generally stupid places to meet people with whom you can reasonably expect to build something lasting (although there are exceptions).

To sum up, my rules of thumb for meeting people to potentially date(TM)

1. Do or do not, there is no try.
2. Keep it simple.
3. Tell that voice in your head that's worrying about what to say or what she might think of you, to STFU
4. Don't focus on getting a number or a date. Focus on getting to know another person, to whatever extent you are blessed to get to know them. Even a thirty-second conversation is more of a blessing than nothing.
5. Rejection, shmrejection. Don't analyze why, or think you're defective because of it. Sometimes that's just how stuff rolls. Get back in the saddle, man.
6. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Hope that helps. :)

[Xielos]

Everyone, except the rudest of persons, is perfectly fine with having a random, normal conversation with a stranger.

...so it is just me that hates random converations with strangers? O_o

[Alumette]

lol.

On re-reading that I realize how it might be confusing. What I'm trying to say is, if a stranger starts a random conversation with you, the worst that will happen is you might think, "Well that was annoying." But most people won't make a sweeping judgment about your value as a person for that. And that's what most guys in the situation I described (the "How do I start a conversation?" situation) seem to be worried about. That "She'll think I'm (insert negative adjective here)." I was just trying to point out that it likely won't be that bad, even in a worse-case scenario.

...and if a girl does make a sweeping negative judgment about your value as a person for simply striking up a conversation, well, then she's the wrong girl for you.

[PawnOfFate]

Best advice I can give you (other than what I've already given).. .Is to listen to the women who are giving you advice...

Or hire a hooker.

[Noble]

Here is my problem.

I can talk to ANYONE. However, whenever my thoughts start to wonder of to asking someone out, or even just to get that point, I start to get nervous and my confidence fails me. Otherwise I'm an unstoppable force until I start to think about that.

Aside from that, I do sometimes have trouble thinking of something just to brake the ice unless I observe something unique about them or what they are doing, or the location.

EDIT - on a deeper psychological aspect, my emotions are, to word it correctly though perhaps a bit vulgar, fucked-up. I can't make out top from bottom on how I feel about things sometimes. Guess that comes with have a traumatic event occur 10 years ago that forces me to live in a world of paranoia and eventually develop severe clinical depression.

My greatest fear is that I won't measure up to a woman. I don't really know how to say it. As I grew up people always said that I was destined for great things, that I was an incredible person capable of so much. Even people I didn't know, who apparently knew me would sing my praises, especially adults. I even got accepted into an organization composed entirely of older people in the ages of 40 and beyond in the local chapter of The Kiwanis club because of who I am. I even got my photo in the paper, which is actually being run for the second year in a row. Kiwanis Pancake Day (http://www.winchesterstar.com/TheWinchesterStar/061102/Life_pancake.asp)

I have always felt like I have the world sitting on my shoulders. The feeling used to be unbearable because I felt like it was responsibility to be the example that people would follow, to always try and do the right thing regardless of the personal cost. Always thinking of others and putting them before me. That is the story of my life, even in my darkest hours.

I'm like the tragic hero. Willing to sacrifice his life for others, yet always doubting himself, especially in matters concerning his own life.

Bah, I've let myself dwell on these thoughts for too long now. That is the old me before I got on meds. But even so I still feel the need to get involved in the world and make a difference.

Damn, I've said too much. I need to get back to work on school stuff.

[TheImperial]

Here is my problem.

I can talk to ANYONE. However, whenever my thoughts start to wonder of to asking someone out, or even just to get that point, I start to get nervous and my confidence fails me. Otherwise I'm an unstoppable force until I start to think about that.

Aside from that, I do sometimes have trouble thinking of something just to brake the ice unless I observe something unique about them or what they are doing, or the location.

I know this is SO MUCH EASIER SAID THAN DONE, but don't think about it!

Be confident in who you are, realize that this totally hot babe you are talking to is a human being with weaknesses & insecurities as well, and don't let it spook you.

Heck, I'm all about "asking girls out" these days. I've found that random phone calls to run errands or just go get into trouble work better - less stress & worry involved.

You want to break the ice? Make fun of them. Bust their chops.

Bookstore? Help her find the children's section, because that'd be more on her level. Bust her chops like that.

The key to that above approach, however, is you've got to be approachable & funny enough to make your cockiness not look like arrogance. That's a hard like to tow at times; I've gotten myself in trouble with it lately:

you know, sometimes i find your elaborate sarcasm a bit over the edge. ... and furthermore, i got your voicemessage... but was a bit peeved you think me uncultured (sarcasm as it may have been) you're the self-admitted ignoramous of all things wine.

But just run with it. Have fun! There are lots of women out there, and - no offense to you ladies at all - you're going to have to put yourself out on a limb a lot to find one that is worth your time.

If you get shot down, so what? Really. So what?

[Eomatrix]

I

And yeah telling jokes isn't something I would say is an indication of how funny you are. There's something a lot more pure in making humourous observations or having a clever, fitting come-back to an insult.

I probably worded my stance wrong. I'm not saying get ALL of your humor. (not jokes, jokes are a sign of desperation) from outside sources. I'm pretty good with improv, I usually adapt things. Sarcasm is loads of fun. I used to think I was funny, but I looked at a few comedies, and was just like, "Wow, I need an update." Updated, new school, BAM, class clown. Also, best humor exercise, watch the news and comment on it sarcastically. Any way, I'm probably coming off as an arrogant dickhead. There may be some truth to that.
Also, like Alumette said, power of suggestion, if you think you can't, then you can't. If you think you can, you will. Confidence is essential.

[Alumette]

Here is my problem.

I can talk to ANYONE. However, whenever my thoughts start to wonder of to asking someone out, or even just to get that point, I start to get nervous and my confidence fails me. Otherwise I'm an unstoppable force until I start to think about that.

Aside from that, I do sometimes have trouble thinking of something just to brake the ice unless I observe something unique about them or what they are doing, or the location.

EDIT - on a deeper psychological aspect, my emotions are, to word it correctly though perhaps a bit vulgar, fucked-up. I can't make out top from bottom on how I feel about things sometimes. Guess that comes with have a traumatic event occur 10 years ago that forces me to live in a world of paranoia and eventually develop severe clinical depression.

My greatest fear is that I won't measure up to a woman. I don't really know how to say it. As I grew up people always said that I was destined for great things, that I was an incredible person capable of so much. Even people I didn't know, who apparently knew me would sing my praises, especially adults. I even got accepted into an organization composed entirely of older people in the ages of 40 and beyond in the local chapter of The Kiwanis club because of who I am. I even got my photo in the paper, which is actually being run for the second year in a row. Kiwanis Pancake Day (http://www.winchesterstar.com/TheWinchesterStar/061102/Life_pancake.asp)

I have always felt like I have the world sitting on my shoulders. The feeling used to be unbearable because I felt like it was responsibility to be the example that people would follow, to always try and do the right thing regardless of the personal cost. Always thinking of others and putting them before me. That is the story of my life, even in my darkest hours.

I'm like the tragic hero. Willing to sacrifice his life for others, yet always doubting himself, especially in matters concerning his own life.

Bah, I've let myself dwell on these thoughts for too long now. That is the old me before I got on meds. But even so I still feel the need to get involved in the world and make a difference.

Damn, I've said too much. I need to get back to work on school stuff.


Totally been there, Noble. I know exactly where you're coming from.

You just have to stop yourself from thinking so darn much. :) If you think too much on things you'll make yourself crazy.

Like Imp said, If you get shot down, so what? Really. So what?

[Xielos]

Well what if physical complications arise? I know my knees literaly locked up one time and I thought I was going to tip over.

[Alumette]

Well what if physical complications arise? I know my knees literaly locked up one time and I thought I was going to tip over.

So tip over! It will give you both something to laugh about and talk about over coffee later.

"To be a great champion you must believe you are the best. If you're not, pretend you are." --Muhammad Ali

[Noble]

Totally been there, Noble. I know exactly where you're coming from.

You just have to stop yourself from thinking so darn much. :) If you think too much on things you'll make yourself crazy.

Like Imp said, If you get shot down, so what? Really. So what?

So you have severe clinical depression too?

I hate, HATE, making that an excuse, but to some extent I can't always control how I feel. I am working on improving my optimism and catching myself when I think negative thoughts so I can stop and turn em around, but sadly that doesn't always work.

[Alumette]

I know.


:)

Been there.

*hugs*

[Noble]

I know.


:)

Been there.

*hugs*

so how did you get over your depression?

[Knightward]

Well if it's anything like how I got over mine and my paranoia, it involves hitting the absolute rock bottom in your life. When emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, whatever, it can't get much worse. Assuming you don't take the suicide route or waste away in a life you feel is completely meaningless, eventually something in your head will snap and you'll climb out of the hole ten times stronger than when you went in.

But I can't recommend that strategy. Too risky, and you can't be conscious of it as you're doing it.

[Alumette]

so how did you get over your depression?

Who says I'm over it? :P

Seriously, though, what Knightward says is true. It wasn't exactly that way for me, necessarily. I went through some pretty scary stuff: nervous breakdown at 17, among other things. Thankfully I was never to the point where suicide felt like an option for me. There were times when I would just lie in my room for hours, trying to imagine what it would feel like to be dead, but I never actually wanted to take my own life. Mostly when I would be in a depressive phase I would just want to lie in bed for weeks at a time and not talk to anyone. Just taking another breath seemed like a huge effort and sometimes I wished I just didn't have to "do the work of living" anymore.

For me it was a matter of realizing that my moods were interfering with the life I wanted for myself, and being frustrated enough that that was the case to want to do something about it.

A doctor wanted to put me on meds and I refused, but it made me realize that if it was severe enough that I should be on meds, then I had to take ownership of it and learn to manage it somehow. So I started really listening to myself, my deepest inner heart, to try to discover what it was that set me down that path, and what things bolstered me against it. I also committed to exercising and meditating daily. I told myself it was that or meds, and I didn't want meds bad enough that that was a powerful motivator for me. I told myself that if the exercise and meditation didn't work, I'd try the meds, but I was going to really commit to making it work.

I also made changes to my diet. I always ate well--had to for dance--but I really focused on listening deeply to my body and trying to get fresh, wholesome food. Because cooking/food are deeply spiritual things for me (most on this forum know that I consider cooking a form of prayer), I genuinely feel physically, mentally, and spiritually strong when I eat natural foods that are prepared simply and well. So I buy organic food as much as I can, and try to avoid processed foods and that kind of thing as much as possible.

In addition I worked very hard to find people and things in my life that would be positive influences. I didn't have many negative influences in my life growing up, except for my own natural moodiness and my perfectionistic/obsessive tendencies which led up to my nervous breakdown and my eating disorders and were all pieces of my depression. I realized the most powerful negative influence in my life was my own mind. So I worked hard to really get to the source of that "noise" and either rework it or tune it out. My husband was a wonderful source of positive, patient energy for this but so were many others. A handful of Gurus too, actually--one of whom will likely never, ever know how much he did; no matter how many times I tell him it never fully conveys the extent to which he saved my life in a spiritual, not biological, sense.

I think more than the people though were the things in my life that I started to focus on. I totally redefined my relationship to dance, which took almost 10 years to do, but it has made a huge difference. I rediscovered that place of love that used to be my source for dance, and struggled to reconnect with it, to carve away all the negative scar tissue that had built up around this huge part of my life over the years. I struggled hard to focus on the small joys and blessings in my life. To make a big deal out of small joys and a small deal out of big hurts. I collected quotations and mantras, I was on the lookout for positive messages I could keep on hand in my head to lean on when the bleak darkness started shrouding in--after I learned to recognize the warning signs. Calvin and Hobbes was a good source for this, as was my music collection.

I burned mix CDs with special playlists to counter impending black moods and to help me climb out of the hole when the depression did manage to catch me unawares. I learned to say, "Stop, I need to take a break from obligations and nurture myself in a place without expectation for a while." So my quizzes get graded a day later. Big freaking deal. My students are better off waiting for quizzes if it means they have a teacher who still has a positive grip on her emotional state.

I learned to ask for help. To say to my family, my colleagues, my friends, and my husband, "I need a lot from you right now." I learned not to be ashamed of the fact that sometimes I, like most other human beings, have some pretty substantial emotional needs from time to time.

I went back over my life and confronted the crap that got me to the precipice. I sorted through it, decided what to keep (and it was precious little, among those experiences), and ditched the rest. BS my stupid abusive ex-boyfriend said and did to me? Gone. I don't have time to believe his opinions or dwell on his warped concept of power. Things some of my ballet teachers said to me about my body? Gone. I dance because I love to and I deserve to work for a company that appreciates my technical skill and passion for the art over a number on a scale.

I also learned to "embrace my inner 'F*ck it," that is to say, I try to let a lot of "small stuff" roll off me. It was a hard habit to learn but it's getting easier every time.

I dunno. I just sort of worked myself into new patterns of thinking, I guess.

This is not to say I'm "over it." Some weeks I can't exercise as much, or I eat garbage, or I get too overwhelmed to focus on the joy, and I feel it--I really do. I sense that creeping blackness and it feels like I'm standing on a precipice over a deep black hole, and it's pulling me down, and part of me just wants to jump in and drown in it so it will all be over and I don't have to resist anymore. And that's a scary place for me.

It's something I have to work at every day, and really commit to keeping myself whole and intact emotionally. Part of it comes from committing to the conviction that I deserve it. But make no mistake, it is *work* dealing with this. But I know it is something I'll have to work at my whole life. And process is more important than product, IMO.

I don't know if that answers your question or not, but it's my perspective, anyhow. I don't really have a 'magic solution,' I guess. Just kind of my own deal that I've been working on over the past ten to fifteen years.

I hope that helps you. Just know that you are not alone in this, I guess. I, and many others, to be sure, are here to help you if you need. All you have to do is ask. :)

"Be not afraid of growing slowly, only of standing still." --Chinese proverb

Peace to you,

[Noble]

Well if it's anything like how I got over mine and my paranoia, it involves hitting the absolute rock bottom in your life. When emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, whatever, it can't get much worse. Assuming you don't take the suicide route or waste away in a life you feel is completely meaningless, eventually something in your head will snap and you'll climb out of the hole ten times stronger than when you went in.

But I can't recommend that strategy. Too risky, and you can't be conscious of it as you're doing it.

Been there and done that. Still struggling though after 10 years. Been fighting my own battle most of the way, only recently on drugs during the past year. Helping out a lot, but I still have my moments of random rainy days. And no I'm not talking about the weather, though I do feel better when the sun is shining.

[Knightward]

Ooooh, that's a really good point (among others), Al, that I didn't think to mention: Embracing the inner F*ck it. It works a lot better than you would think beforehand. For me it came in several quick bursts during severely depressing points in time, but afterward bouts of depression are less intense and further apart. In a way, it's possibly the best emotional defense you can have, because it eliminates the concepts of offense and defense.

My paranoia did take a few years of conscious work though. Whenever I had a suspicion about any plans/intentions/whatever against me, I would ask myself if it made rational sense. If it seemed like excessive effort on the part of my percieved threats, I'd remind myself it was only paranoia and disregard it. It was difficult at first, but it eventually became reflexive over time, and then stopped being conscious altogether. Now my paranoia is gone.

One thing I did find to help with overthinking is to trust your instincts/intuition/gut feeling/whatever you want to call it. This is also not easy (infact I'd say it's probably harder to explain), but it is definately worthwhile. In a nutshell, it's getting a feeling for a situation and recognizing whether that feeling is caused by something internal, or something in the environment, allowing you to respond accordingly. I could give scenarios and examples to explain it, but that's basically what it boils down to. It takes a fair amount of self awareness and observation; but when you seriously want to improve upon yourself, you tend to gradually improve in the areas you find lacking. Much like working out, you pretty much wake up one day and notice you've improved a lot in that particular department (which I'm still waiting for with working out damnit! :cuss: ).

The other big thing to remember with depression is to fight against the inertia of it and do something to cheer yourself up. Even if it's only temporary relief, do it assuming it won't make things worse down the road. When you wallow in it, it gets worse, it lasts longer, and you have even less energy. Hell, whenever I'm going through a really rough time the first thing I'll do is listen to some Nine Inch Nails as it's the fastest way to cheer myself up, as antithetical as it may seem. In short, when depressed do what makes you happy and the good kind of excitable.

Hope this stuff helps!

And Al, awesome proverb. I'm going to have to steal it. :notme:

[Plasma Wisp]

Noble, seriously. Aim for lighter chicks. It's easier to pick them up.

[Endless One]

I think for me in the dating world it isn't so much picking people up that makes me freak out, its the what do I do with them after the first date, problem. The Key is, Noble, dating is all about fun, and you. Save worrying about what they think for relationships. If you want to ask someone out, just do it. What do you have to lose, honestly? You will only lose out if you don't try. As soon as I stopped thinking about "the rules" and did what pleased me, I had more fun...I mean I'm having more fun.

[Noble]

Noble, seriously. Aim for lighter chicks. It's easier to pick them up.

you mean weight wise? because I totally agree. I'm not a very muscular fellow.

[Xanatos]

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine as children do. It's not just in some of us; it is in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

- Some Philosopher dude.

I'm used to helping guys out who have this sort of problem. I mean, I take guys out and train them in this sort of thing. Guys who have no social skills and are afraid to even talk to women. I try to make them anchor the feeling of ANXIETY as a feeling of ANTICIPATION. It's nature's way of giving you a boost :)

I just read this thread and of everything I have to say Alummette's advice was probably the best thing to follow. If you see a girl you like, simply go up to her and say this:

"I like you, and I would like to get to know you."

And then get to know her. Find commonalities, but do not turn the interaction into an interview. The reaction you normally get from a girl when saying this line is something akin to a deer in the headlights.

Worse case scenario - go out and buy the book called "The Game" by Neil Strauss. Then decide whether you are ready to change your life for the better.

[Druid]

You should come hang with Tim and myself this Christmas holiday. We'll hit the town and see what we come out with. =P

[Valcarde]

Stop looking so hard.
Like the story goes, it'll happen when you least expect it. The girl I'm seeing now (and who is moving in with me soon!), we met on a -city bus-, when I was sitting, playing my GBA, and she was interested in what version of Pokemon I was playing :shinner:

Anyway... the more you look for something, the more you miss it. Don't worry too much over it, and it'll happen.

[Eomatrix]

I agree with Valcarde. Just strike up a conversation with someone sitting next to you on a bus or something. Never know what might happen. I have a feeling, that when the time comes, you'll do fine.
*still feels like an arrogant prick when giving relationship advice*

[Remianen]

Stop looking so hard.
Like the story goes, it'll happen when you least expect it. The girl I'm seeing now (and who is moving in with me soon!), we met on a -city bus-, when I was sitting, playing my GBA, and she was interested in what version of Pokemon I was playing :shinner:

Anyway... the more you look for something, the more you miss it. Don't worry too much over it, and it'll happen.

You know, I've been hearing this for years and while I'd like to believe it's true, I'm starting to have my doubts. :shinner:

[Sword]

Stop looking so hard.
Like the story goes, it'll happen when you least expect it. The girl I'm seeing now (and who is moving in with me soon!), we met on a -city bus-, when I was sitting, playing my GBA, and she was interested in what version of Pokemon I was playing :shinner:

Anyway... the more you look for something, the more you miss it. Don't worry too much over it, and it'll happen.


I gotta agree with this. I still have a suspicion that women actually monitor us and wait until we finally give up looking. Then they pounce on us! :chuckle:

[Druid]

It's true, I'm not looking right now, and some girl has pounced on me! It's soo frustrating. Grrrrrr.. though not like I can complain what with raging lesbians in the back of my van and a girl pouncing on me...

[Knightward]

Eh, it happened to me twice when I wasn't looking and they both ended on rather bad notes. This is not encouraging for a third time. But then, any frustration at this point isn't lack of companionship, it's a lack of action. Which probably carries that needy vibe that drives women away all the same. Whatever, screw it.

But yeah, when you honestly don't need it, your lack of a needy vibe will draw girls to you like sharks to chum.

[Knightward]

*digs up old thread*

Just remember, romance is overrated anyway. Don't believe me? Perhaps this will clear it up for you,
http://www.pbfcomics.com/archive/PBF210-Wishing_Well.gif

[suburbanhell]

Seriously, this is your problem.

Without confidence, you may as well be a 30 year old living in your parent's basement. You mustn't get discouraged... you can't get them all. I don't know your own personal "quirks" as it were... but most women that I'm around can forgive the cute faults if you can smile, make her laugh, and be able to hold your head high.

Confidence.

QFT. Again. Walk into the [insert location with women in it here] like you own the place and they'll be all over you like [something magnetic and/or sticky].

[Bitter Babe]

Oh really now? Practice that often? :P

[suburbanhell]

Not anymore. But I had practiced it enough to know it to be true. 80 percent of the time, it works every time.

[Blackbat]

80 percent of the time, it work every time.

lol.

[suburbanhell]

It's made with bits of real panther, so, you know it's good.

[Noble]

Tragic story time again. Met a wonderful woman at a Roman Re-inactment event in Mobile, Alabama a few weeks ago. We hit it off great, but alas, she lives in tenessee and i live in Virginia. Sad to say, she did tell me later over aim that she would have gone out on a date with me if in some different world where distance didn't matter had I asked.

Also, on another note, I struck out with another girl in the area. Had a great first day walking and talking, afterwards I blew it by thinking she had lost interest when she was simply just really occupied. someone play the worlds smallest violin for me.

[Knightward]

What did I just say last night about romance being overrated (http://www.cohguru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=213066&postcount=55) anyway? :P

[Blackbat]

*plays the worlds smallest violin*

[MikeKAY]

*plays the worlds smallest violin*

http://www.senocular.com/smilies/violin.gif

[Solario]

Why, when I talk to cute girls I like, do I always end up feeling like Andy from Forty-Year-Old Virgin?

"Is it true that if you don't use it, you lose it?"

[Solario]

Why do I suck? Why did I chicken out earlier today?

[iggy880]

I don't suck, I just never attempt. I'm mildly ashamed of that, but at least watching is fun the prospects is fun :P

[Yin]

I couldn't get a girl to look in my direction for years.

Then I lost weight and got sexy, and now I'm all conceited for no apparent reason whatsoever, and I get giddy as sin whenever I get complimented at parties, or whenever some random chick wants to get in my pants. LOL!

I STILL don't get hit on as much as my boi, but he attracts the stupid broads. I get wifey material-type girls. It's funny. Cause when I was looking for a relationship I chased after this one girl for 2 years and 4 months. She had me all kinds of sauced and played up. Then I got smart and left her alone. Now she's tryin to come at me, and I don't want anything to do with a relationship. Not now. These are the golden years. I dont have time to be held down.

But always remember, that one special someone is out there for you. Don't rush anything. Everything'll fall in place when it's suppose to.

[Grae Knight]

Stop chasing relationships and just get laid. Eventually you will find a keeper but it is fun test driving all the others :)

[Enlightened One]

"I suck at picking up chicks"

I believe this man can help you.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l51/MrVyngaard/800px-Airforce_forklift.jpg

[iggy880]

I prefer the term for my state as "Chicken with prospects"

I don't necessarily know factually if any girls are interested(yes girls, I'm still in High School remember, and I'll reserve 'women' for at least when I'm a senior) though I know quite a few I like, and that are at least nice and seem to at least enjoy my company, plus have the same, somewhat odd, sense of humor I do.

Anyways, on the plus side, I'm not an overweight(at least not looking, I might be seeing as almost everyone is at least a little over the mark), truly geeky/nerdy seeming guy(give or take glasses and I kinda keep my gaming and technology obsessions a bit to the side, at least when 'prospects' are about)

Well, I may take the plunge with our Junior Prom this year(no seniors at my school so just us Juniors) so I may go for a good looking, and funny(funny in a good way, like sense of humor) sophomore thats in the play I'm doing tech on now, who knows, that fact thats she can't go to Prom unless as a date might help me :D

/rant

God can I type a lot when I'm kind of thinking to myself about the subject at the same time

[Kid Ferret_]

I have a lot of friends who are girls. My friends who are girls actually rival my friends who are guys. Unfortunately the conversation that I have with these girls last around 5 minutes. So, I don't know if I will be able to keep a conversation going if I ask a girl out.

There is a girl in my class who is always flirting with me (Pretty sure anyway) and I was planning on asking her out today but I chickened out... I had a few good oppertunities to ask her, but as I said, I chickened out. A few times my friends wouldn't leave me alone long enough for me to get to her in the first place. :grr: Hoping to give it another shot next week.

[iggy880]

Try a group date thing like, plan to see a movie with a friends and invite her like "Hey, do you want to catch a movie with some friends?" I mean, I'd do that if I could actually, successfully, organize anything like that with friends, and if I could get a conversation with just her going, and friendly enough to ask it. It should work, and be a good start to going out, just tell your friends the plan so they don't do a lot of extra talking and interrupting :D

[Stalking Shadow]

I have a related problem:

I Get the Girls, But in the End I Do Not Want Them.

[Druid]

In a strange twist of fate, I have to agree with SS here. I now get the girls, but not only can I not have them (currently dating someone) I also don't want them (which unfortunately seems to apply to the current relationship as well)

[Stalking Shadow]

I know that this solution doesn't apply to me, here, but maybe have you considered the possibility that you may very well be gay? Or an Adonis.

[Druid]

If I was gay, then why would I still love the whole 'having sex with a women' deal? Or the whole 'being only attracted to women' thing? I think my real issues lie with my poor attention duration and my lack of judgement in character.

[MikeKAY]

If I was gay, then why would I still love the whole 'having sex with a women' deal? Or the whole 'being only attracted to women' thing? I think my real issues lie with my poor attention duration and my lack of judgement in character.

In truth, your temperament likely lends itself more to casual sex more then it does relationships. Some people are built inside and out to stay with one person and be happy, others just aren't... The problem is that your disinterest with "what you have" is eventually going to take its tole on the relationship, and with that attitude, it won't last. Try to reevaluate exactly what the problem is and if it turns out I'm close, you may want to consider getting your playa' on.

There IS a pretty rough stigma against guys who "don't like to settle down." It is just one of those things society generally holds in value and expects you to fit in with. If that doesn't do it for you, consider that there are alternatives and they aren't as bad as they tend to get painted.

On the other hand, it could possibly be that the people you are with just aren't interesting or engaging to you. Again, examine your own interests and what you find attractive, get a mental "list" together and see how your girl stacks up. It is entirely possible that you just need someone who is a little closer to yourself. Don’t settle for someone who can't make you happy... Or at the very least, keep you interested.

[Druid]

I have given the situation quite a bit of thought. I think the biggest issue was i walked into a relationship not too long after getting out of a bad one simply to fill a hole. That was stupid mistake number one.

I've looked at my relationship in alot of ways and I've determined that I could be really great friends with her, but I just don't see us being close. We're on two different mind tracks. She's all about mindless comfort (just assuming that everything is alright and not bringing up anything if it might possibly shake the boat) and she has an uncanny ability (maybe it's just a female trait) to make me feel like the world's largest deusch whenever I try to talk with her seriously about us. If I am not saying what sounds like something good for the relationship, then she starts this whole thing about how it's all her fault, or that she feels exceptionally sick now, or tells me a really sad story about her past. At this point in time I feel like a jerk for not having been around 20 yrs ago to prevent everything because obviously I am the cure to all woes. O.O

Also, she keeps saying random comments that make me nervous. Mostly about marriage. I'm barely 20, I do not want to settle down.

[Gold Rush]

LOL!

Maybe it would be better to take the cowards way out, Druid? Just...run away! Don't listen to her. Don't answer phone calls or anything from her. Step out of any room you may be with her. Sure, it IS insensitive and there probably is a better solution, but think of it as an option.

Sorta, mentally, put your fingers in your ears around her and say, "La-La-La! Not hearing you! La-La-La!" :P

Maybe a good long stern note/e-mail to her, followed by the ignoring?

Or, go from one bad relationship to the next....AGAIN! Find another woman! If she finds out...who cares, as long as she dumps you.

I guess you gotta be the villian in this, but examine the consequences first if you do.

There is always hooking her up with other men...or many other men and then coming out with your, "Let's be friends" speech?

Just suggesting stuff early in the morning.

================================================== =====

Gold Rush

[Graphite]

Long story short. Bout six months back there was a woman I was interested in. She was interested in me too, but was too much of a pansey to leave the bad relationship she was in. She openly admit that she liked me but wasn't sure if it was because of who I was or because of what he wasn't. Anyway, I think I freaked her out around her birthday (showing up at her door to give her a gift card and just wanting to hang out but he was there). Haven't seen her since but we've bounced a few text messages back since then.

So I'm out last night at the only local club. The people there are bumping and grinding (which I find a bit tasteless). Then I start thinking about her, and that she's the only woman I've ever truely enjoyed dancing with. Now I don't have alot of experiece, haven't even picked up a chick, but it felt... sacred. A bit to my surprise, I made a prayer request to dance one last time with her before she graduates, after which I figure I'll never see her again and I suspect she's still attached.

Anyway, I don't make prayer requests very often, holding the opinion that its not my place to request anything from God. That he knows whats on my heart, and if it has it his blessing it will happen. So I feel a bit out of place with what I did last night. My head says its far past time that I moved on. Now I dunno what to do and was looking for someones two cents.

[razoras]

She sounds like she's stringing you along, buddy. This is a VERY VERY common situation and it usually goes like this: She will never leave that boyfriend. If she does, you'll likely find yourself waiting out another boyfriend she grabs on the rebound... before she goes back to the first.

Waiting for a girl you like to break up with her current boyfriend is bad, too, because being the "rebound" guy makes your prospects for anything long term pretty low. If she's too much on a pansy to break up with someone she doesn't like, she doesn't sound like she's very mentally mature. Find someone else, you're infatuated but you're not in love.

[Graphite]

Thats basically what I was thinking...if she didn't have the gonads to break up with him and move on then I wouldn't want to be that other next guy that she strings around forever never saying there's a problem. Your ether in it or your not, and I don't like taking middle stances on issues or people. And she's not stringing me along. We're talking maybe five texts in five months. Its mostly a problem in my head and keeping her out me thinks.

[razoras]

Okay then, contact isn't much more than sporadic then, eh?

I've been in your situation, is all, Graphite. I had a chick who had her claws in me real good during late high school, and it's only in retrospect that I can see how stupid I was being. Just get yourself drooling after a lady you're in regular contact with and you'll be able to move on just fine.

[Graphite]

So I just signed up for Geek two Geek (www.gk2gk.com) today. Its a fun sight and I suggest people give it a go. It has the same garrentee as Match.com for less which is also a good draw. Here's something cool:

10 ten Geek Games (gk2gk.com)
1) Final Fantasy
2) The Sims Deluxe Edition
3) World of Warcraft
4) Tetris
5) Super Metroid
6) Halo 2
7) Civilization
8) Grand Theft Auto
9) Battlefield 2
10) City of Heroes

We made the list!