CoV E3 rewiev by CoH player.

[Sword]

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=general&Number=2911225&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

This is the good stuff, compared to the bland generic rewievs most gaming-sites are giving. Some really interesting stuff here.

Sounds like I'll finally get to play a real scranker!

[Kinetix]

Nice find and great info!

[Sword]

I'm really fascinated by the Mastermind AT, if it's like the poster is guessing.

Primary: pets/minions
Secondary: Buff/Debuff

A team-oriented character that brings its own team :D

[Randomus]

Sounds like Nano Napoleon will need to be rerolled as a Mastermind.

[vyxzuw]

Mastermind will probably work like an Illusion Controller. (Or upper level Fire/Rad...)

[Stalking Shadow]

Doctor Sarcasmo will definitely be an evil mastermind.

[Cold Quake]

Woohoo! CoV will have exactly the power sets I need for Poet's villain. :D

[Moon Jump]

Oh god, that sounds awesome, I will make my character into Mastermind for sure. Can't wait to try it! (Please let me into the beta Cryptic!!)

[The Widowed]

Hmmm. I guess Bloodywedd would be a Dominator, then? Or would that be Dominatrix? :D

[inkblaster]

Excellent, no true equivalent of blasters!

Wait, does this mean our archetype is so teh gimp they don't want to repeat their mistakes and have something like it in CoV?

[MaligneFamily]

Brute: At its most basic description, this is the CoV version of the Tanker. The first thing I noticed, however, is that they have their primaries and secondaries switched. So while this AT clearly performed as a Tank in the Base Raids, their powers were setup with their attacks as their primary and their defenses as their secondary. It was obvious that the Brute would have access to some of the same sets as a tanker, but also some new sets all together. For example the Base Raid Brute was using Dark Armor as his defense set, and fire melee as his primary. There was also, I noticed a Dark Fire defense set, which I suspect will work similar to the current Fire Aura defense set. Overall I would classify the Brute as a Tanker with a higher emphasis on damage.

Stalker: Again, the simplest way to describe this AT is as the Villian version of a Scrapper. Again, like the Brute, the Stalker worked most clearly like a scrapper only with his primary and secondary power sets swapped. The Stalker they had available was a Regen / Ninja Sword stalker. That's right, ninja sword, not katana. While the ninja-sword set did have mostly the same attacks as the Katana, it did have some features that I would describe as Stalker specific. By now you've probably asked yourself why would you want to play a stalker if the Brute already appears to have the best of both worlds, higher damage and near tank-like defenses. Stalker abilities would be the answer. While the stalker might not have quite the damage potential of the scrapper, they will do pleanty of damage. Stalker behave more like thieves in that they only do the really high damage, potentially higher then anyone else, but only in specific cercumstances, such as the backstab. Looking through the Stalker powerset I noticed a few powers that were clearly being set apart. For example, in the stalker Regen set, you had all the typical powers, except you also had an additional hide abilitiy. This Hide is basically a stealth, but it did not fit with the rest of the defense set. Likewise the ninja-sword set had a couple of bright red attacks which claimed to do moderate damage "+Special". So I looked at the power descriptions and it mentioned that these attacks were considered "Hide abilities". Attacks that have some additional effect, but only while you're hidden. The only one available to the Stalker I was playing was the Assasin Blade attack. A basic attack that does a much greater amount of damage if you're using Hide at the time. That's right, Stalkers get true backstabs.

Destroyer: This set was actually harder to classify, but inthe end I would have to describe it as the Villian equivilant of a Defender. Again, however, their primaries and secondaries were swaped. Meaning that while they had massive buffs and debuffs, their primary consisted of blast sets. This also made Destroyers the closest thing to Blasters available among villians. I suspect now you'll get to use psychic and dark blast as your primaries, in addition to new sets. I suspect Destroyers will get to do just below Blaster and above Defender level of damage, with near defender strength buffs and debuffs in their secondaries. It should be interesting to see how people play Destroyers, since most people will probably want to play them as either defenders or blasters. But like the Devs said, none of these archetypes fit exactly with current CoH archetypes, eventually people will have to play them as their own unique thing.


Wait from what the review makes it sound like, the Brute is the scrapper and the is the Stalker.... considering that Tanks are in essence Scrappers only with switched powersets dam/ def-res and def-res /dam

And the destroyer sounds like an alternate version of a blaster...

[Meltman]

I can be a rogue? Mwahahahaha.

[Poison]

Wait, let me quickly...
*puts on a black tshirt with the word STALKER in big, red letters on it*
There. >:]

[Sword]

Well, I see the villain ATs ike this:

Brute: Still the aggro manager. Think BS/Invuln scrapper before 75% res cap with tanker taunt and a bit lower damage. They'll be more of a hybrid of scrappers and tankers, probably doing neither job quite as well as the CoH ATs, but being more diverse. Jeez, I wish they could have come up with this before CoH :rolleyes:

Stalker: A more fragile version of scrappers. Think MA/SR scrapper with stealth. They'll be more aimed at doing surgical strikes against key enemies and then getting out of dodge again.

Destroyer: The villain version of Blaster. Think blaster with actually usable secondaries. They'll do good damage and have team-helping abilities.

Manipulator: CoV version of controllers, but leaning more towards defenders. Think Dark/Dark defenders perhaps.

Mastermind: Dunno, but they will roxxor :D One thing I'm wondering about them is: will we get to design our own minions? Will there be powersets that are different minion types perhaps?

[Quilan]

i can just see myself with the mastermind AT, yelling at my minions "faster you little slaves!"

that would rock

[Maveric]

I also asked Statesman about any new powersets they might be working on. I mentioned Pistol scrapper sets, and he said that this was not something they would be adding any time soon. I got the sense that he liked the idea, but it's simply not something they are working on right now. - Ciaos

looks like I won't be re-newing my CoH membership unless they come up with more powersets other than archery and sonics...

[Poison]

FFS, Mav, there will be more than those. Sonic and Archery are just the only definite ones (except Shield, that is).

[inkblaster]

How are you so sure about shield Poison? Is there anything from the devs or in the piggs pointing to this?

The shield set from the Ascendants is very one-trick pony-ish, and even Blue Shield's shield is just an emblem...

[Krypto]

looks like I won't be re-newing my CoH membership unless they come up with more powersets other than archery and sonics...

Word. Powersets that were originally scheduled for what, Issue 3? :rolleyes:

[Sword]

How are you so sure about shield Poison? Is there anything from the devs or in the piggs pointing to this?

The shield set from the Ascendants is very one-trick pony-ish, and even Blue Shield's shield is just an emblem...

Yeah, what's up with the shields? I don't want no shields. I want pistols or streetfighting for scrappers and electric armour and melee for tanks.

[vyxzuw]

My view on the ATs: (From what I gathered from the post, and general thoughts.)

Brute. Old school view on scrappers. (Before they were given the boss-killer role.) Take care of minions and lts. Think Fire Tank, or Spines Scrapper. Probably will have aggro drawing abilities, and lots of AoE attacks. (Will probably have problems doing single target attacks, so attacking bosses will be a problem.) Very soloable, since it can kill fast. May need some inspires to take down bosses, perhaps.

Stalker. Boss killer. What scrappers are now. Think DM/Reg scrapper, or Inv/EM Tank. High survivabilty, but low aggro drawing. So, it can stand toe to toe with a AV. Will probably have lots of single target damage, which will be decent, and have lots of special damage boosts. (Like backstab, and proabably critical hits...may even have toggle droppers.) It will be soloble, but slow. Due to it's primary being Defense, it should be able to withstand tank sized mobs. However, it won't be able to HOLD those mobs attention.

Destroyer. Support. What a blaster SHOULD have been. Think AR/Dev. Or Rad/Rad (with a damage boost). Will support through buffing, and debuff. Then will add general damage. Will be soloable, due to high damage, and buff debuff power. (Much like my examples are.)

Dominator: Even though they think Controller with powers swicthed. I believe that this one will be a new mix. Controller/Blaster. Think Mind Control/PsiBlast. Will have mez powers (no pets) and defender damage. Will be soloable, but slowly (not as slowly as controllers are now though.)

Mastermind: Controller. Pure. Only with more summons. Illusion Controller/Dark Miasma, for instance. With pets at lower levels. Will be soloable, due to pet damage, but a bit 'unfocused' in direction. (Much like Fire/Rad are at high levels.)

Why do I think this. First, the devs have said how they didn't like basing the initial ATs on such set ideas. It's caused problems, and they probablt don't want to repeat them. Second, villains, while do team, are usually more independent. Thus, more should be soloable. (Also, the devs have always said that you should be able to solo...and these are. Some are 'slow' but even they are faster than some of our ATs.)

[Maveric]

FFS, Mav, there will be more than those. Sonic and Archery are just the only definite ones (except Shield, that is).

FFS?

shield actually sounds kinda cool, i imagine a it would be a combo powerset part invulnerability(resistance) and reflexes(defensive/avoidance)... i just mainly want new powersets and costume options so i can create an play new characters. i was really hoping for pistols (the most requested powerset to my knowledge) but i think cryptic is biased against them. mabey they don't want children to be encouranged to play with handguns, ofcourse playing a hero that uses fire to burn villians alive is okay though...

for me this game has been more about creativity than "balance" or "add-on" features or "content"...

[Jade_Dragon]

Unfortunately, it's looking very much like Cryptic is correcting the mistakes that they made in the archetype design, leading to the obvious question of why they didn't do this in the first place, or at least make the same adjustment to heroes. The Tankers and Scrappers certainly seem to be more realistically implemented in the Brute and Stalker forms, and most people are agreeing that Destroyers will be far superior to Blasters, at least as they currently stand.

However, I find myself wondering about a few things. The archetype of a "stalker" is that he is both weaker offensively AND defensively than a more force oriented meleer, like a Brute or Tanker. So while the Tanker is certainly getting a bonus by having his power sets switched, I wonder if the Stalker won't be overpowered because his boosted defense makes him too difficult to kill. He will be able to do additional damage by striking by surprise, but will also be able to continue the fight over a longer period of time like a Tanker. This doesn't fit the description of a "stalker", who is supposed to stick to the shadows not only to strike with surprise, but to avoid counterattack as well.

If we make the Stalker weaker, defensively, to encourage him to act in accordance with his role, then I can see them complaining that their Primaries are not as powerful as a Brute's Secondaries. And despite the Brute being called the counterpart to the Tanker, it is obvious that he is really just a Scrapper. A Scrapper with additional aggro holding capability, perhaps, but he won't need punchvoke or the like, since he will naturally do enough damage to hold aggro. And I DOUBT he will get more than 75% resistance cap because then the Scrappers will ask why THEY don't get the same thing.

As for the Destroyer, I agree with vyxzuw that the Dominator is more likely to be the counterpart to the Blaster, with the Destroyer being the Defender with the power sets switched. (Destruction being the opposite of defense, after all) If we assume that the best Blaster builds are those that make use of control powers in their secondary (which isn't true in all cases, but is certainly a successful strategy) then the Dominator as Control/Ranged would be its inverse. The Mastermind is then the counterpart of the Controller, as Buff-Debuff/Control, with an emphasis on pets in the Control. (Which the Dominator probably wouldn't have)

[vyxzuw]

Hmmm.. I think that Dominator will be even more messier than I originally thought. Rather than just a Control primary. It will have a Debuff/Control primary. (No pets, and debuff...not buff.)

I'm thinking that the Dominator will be more single target oriented. (Debuff bosses, and stacking single holds.)

(I don't think that each villan AT will be one of our inverted. But rather redoing it.)

There was the debate long ago about each ATs role.

It sort of went.
Controller: Mass mob handler. (The controller works as intended. The only problem is soloing...thus the Masterind is given soloing ability, by getting pets.)

Tank: Tank. (Which meant holding the BOSS aggro. Since the controller had the rest of the mob. Unfortunatly, the tank ISN'T working quite as intended, and often step on the controller's role. It does work, when in AV battles, it hold the AVs aggro. The Stalker will serve as this, by doing single target damage, to hold aggro. It will have a single target taunt, which will actually make sense now. By being single target oriented, it won't be able to hold mass aggro, even though it could survive it. Thus, not stepping on the mob controller role. Single target damage, while should be enough to take down targets, won't impede on the damage dealer's role.)

Scrapper: Melee damage. (Which was initially, CORRECTLY, interpretted as minions and lt take down. However, it was then given the role of boss slayer... The Brute, however, is stepping back into the old scrapper role as mob slayer. It's role is to draw mobs into it's swath of destruction. However, it doesn't have the tank's survivablity. It will be able to survive in melee, for awhile, but will need some assistance...hence the mastermind. With AoE attacks, it will not be able to rip bosses down effectively, due to wasted end.)

Blaster: Damage Support. (They are meant to assist. Either by doing AoEs to aid the scrapper and controller. Or single target damage to assist the tank. For CoH, however, we already have a Defender, that acts as assistant. So, blasters were used as JUST damage support. The Destroyer, however, will be SUPPORT. Both, by dealing damage, AND by buffing and debuffing. Yes, they look like the reverse of the Defender, but they are actually a revamped blaster. The benefit of having this revamping, is that they are not also given SOLOABLITY.)

Defender: Support. (The odd, AT, that is a throwback to the Fantasy games. It's the Priest. One, that doesn't fit with Comic book lore. And, it shows. CoH Defenders are taking the role that blasters should have. There should be NO Defender AT. A Rad/Rad Defender, should be a BLASTER. In CoV, they are splitting it up, into single target and mass target. The Destroyer is Mass target. It assists the Brute and Mastermind. By either buffing/debuffing the brute. Or adding damage to the Mastermind. The Dominator, on the other hand, is assisting the Stalker. By having single target mezzes, it can stack them on their target faster than our controllers can. Thus, allowing them, to mez bosses very quickly. Their debuffs, will be used in AV fights, where mezzes will usually require two Dominators to mez. While our Controller when not teamed with other controllers, against AVs, will feel somewhat useless. The Dominator, will be able to debuff, which will be more powerful than the Destroyers, and will also be able to deal single target damage. Which will be somewhat weaker than the Desrtoyer's but will be more focused.)

Thus, while CoH, currently has a AT system, where ATs step on eachothers toes. CoV will have one with easy roles.

Mastermind: Mob control.
Brute: Mob damage.
Stalker: Boss aggroing.
Dominator: Boss damage.
Destroyer: Support.

And, all will be soloable.

Thus, CoV won't have any role problems...until they start introducing the Epics...then all Hell will break loose...or is that all Heaven will break loose...since we're talking about villans?