GIANT Spoiler for Civil War Issue 2 Dont Read if you dont want too be spoiled

[MajorMarvel]

here it is

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CivilWar/CW2.jpg

"My name is Peter Parker and I've been Spider-Man since I was 15 years old. Any questions?"

[razoras]

God, I hate modern comic drawing styles. I blame Liefeld.

[Blackbat]

Shouldn't this be in the comic section?

[Meltman]

Yes...yes it should.

And honestly...saw this coming a MILE away. Kept saying how Spider-Man will make a huge decision, how it would change his life forever, etc.

[AfterglowNoMore]

And thus begins the reign of crappy revenge storylines. Worse idea than the metal costume. And if Quesada gets his way, either Mary Jane will either die, or Peter and Mary will get divorced, because he hates the idea of Spider-man being married.

[Masked Revenger]

And thus begins the reign of crappy revenge storylines. Worse idea than the metal costume. And if Quesada gets his way, either Mary Jane will either die, or Peter and Mary will get divorced, because he hates the idea of Spider-man being married.

Oh, man I hope not! Peter and Mary are like Clark and Lois. If you get rid of one, you've totally ruined the comic!

Chris

[Solario]

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

THIS IS WHY I HATE CROSSOVERS. Fucking Quesada and his goddamn irrational bullshit. Fucking Marvel writers who make Spidey Iron Man's buttboy and fucking Marvel writers who don't understand jack about the characters. Peter has learnt nothing but lesson upon lesson upon lesson about why you don't fucking share your secret identity. Idiots. "I'm with disregarding all forms of continuity and core ideals about a character."

[coldcut]

And thus begins the reign of crappy revenge storylines.

Pretty much. Part of the suspension of disbelief that comes with superheroes is pretending that it's (relatively) easy to keep a secret identity. Because if it's not, the superhero and the alter ego cease to be different. And the alter-ego ceases to have any real connection with the reader. No one really wants to read a comic book where all the superheroes act like the most egotistical pro atheletes (Hey, did you see last week's X-men, where Iceman does a small mountain of coke off the bare breasts of three high-priced hookers then crashed his Ferrari into Lake Michigan?), but that's exactly what they would act like if it was being played realistically.

[Solario]

I'm not a continuity nerd by any means and I love revisions, reimaginings etc. if they still hold true to the core concept of the character. This isn't just a stupid move on Peter's side; this is counter to everything we've ever heard Peter express, experience and do.

If people want realistic superheroes go read the Authority. (Which I also love, but I would hate it if it had been Superman, Batman etc. in the DC universe.)

[MajorMarvel]

my reaction too this is mixed. As my reaction too most things is mixed.

In all comics, there are two different aspects of the story.
The execution, and the aftermath.
Every major Comicbook story begins with the execution and its the aftermath that continues too the next execution. Will it be done bad or will it be good? Will it be Great like Astonishing X-Men, Batman Hush, The Death of Superman, The Return of Hal Jordan, THe Death of Jason Todd and the Phoenix Saga

Or will it be done poorly, like The clone Saga, Superman red and blue, and Onslaught

So far the Execution is good. This moment has been built up greatly with the what if, and making it a major cliffhanger at the end of the issue.
But will the aftermath be written good or bad. thats the big question

The other thing is the comic taboos, but the thing about comics is that Comic Taboos are broken yearly. Jason Todd and BUcky being brought back, Other people wearing the costumes such as Kyle Rayner, Ben Reilly, and others.

Another notable character who lost his secret identity is Daredevil. But look at him now, written brilliantly.

For me, I'll just have too wait and see. Atleast they didnt bring back Uncle Ben. :P

[Meltman]

Um, I really don't have a problem with this. Peter is obviously trying to do the right thing and try to put an end to all this hero infighting.

[Solario]

The difference is that Daredevil didn't reveal his own secret identity, because he knows from experience that it's just not a possibility to him. Most notably Karen Page becoming a drug addicted whore who sells his identity to the Kingpin, who proceeds to systematically destroying his life. And his secret identity was never that important, most of the characters in his book has for atleast 30 years known that he was Daredevil.

And Uncle Ben was brought back recently. Just sayin'.

[MajorMarvel]

Not too mention its shown in solicitations that Peter is actually going too Switchsides and join the anti registration people. Got pictures of him fighting Iron Pants also.

and not the real uncle ben :P

The one thing I'm hoping is that if Marvel decides too retract this, They dont do it with some stupid way like Spidey using a satilite too make people forget who he is(Ironman did that) or using a Psychic too change peoples minds.

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Aug06/ASM535_Cov_Col.jpg

[Solario]

Another guy at another forum made a pretty valid concerning the character, that they have been building up to it throughout his book for the last year. My only problem is that I think his book has been shit for the last couple of years.

[Sun-Scarab]

You think they would had wrote its going to be a secret government hero sign up, tsk tsk .

[Meltman]

And Uncle Ben was brought back recently. Just sayin'.

Actually it's not the same Uncle Ben. He's more like a "What If?" Uncle Ben. (Actually, I'm pretty sure there was a What If? exactly like that.)

[Meltman]

My only problem is that I think his book has been shit for the last couple of years.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Solario]

No I've never claimed otherwise, I'm just saying I don't like the direction it has had for a while and this is just more in the same direction. That's just personal taste; I know loads of people who liked it.

[Meltman]

Honestly, my only problem with it is it seems to rip-off an Earth-2 Superman story. (Probably not intentional, but I'm sure there will be accusations.)

[Randomus]

The last issue of ASM explained Spider-Man's decision to follow Iron Man's lead rather well, I think.

I'm with Captain America, certainly, but I can understand the appeal of the superhero registration act.

I'm not a big fan of Millar, but Civil War is shaping up decently.

[PawnOfFate]

I like it.

But then again, I have my suspicions behind why Peter did it. (And more to the fact that it might not even be peter, just a ploy from Iron Man to out one of the most secretive heros of our time, hence the old costume that Iron Man just happened to have... as well as the web shooters... since he made a new costume for peter). The main reason I believe that it's NOT peter... is because he mentions earlier in Issue #1 that his wife was impaled on an octopus arm and aunt may was begging for her life, that's why secret identites need to be secret. He says this in the Metal costume. He makes the coming-out speech... in the old costume. Fishy to me.

I can't wait for issue 3, and thus far I really like where they are going with it. I -like- Bendis and Millar and most of the young talent at marvel. I like the majority of Quesada's decisions. I like marvel right now and what they are doing.

[MajorMarvel]

I like it.

But then again, I have my suspicions behind why Peter did it. (And more to the fact that it might not even be peter, just a ploy from Iron Man to out one of the most secretive heros of our time, hence the old costume that Iron Man just happened to have... as well as the web shooters... since he made a new costume for peter). The main reason I believe that it's NOT peter... is because he mentions earlier in Issue #1 that his wife was impaled on an octopus arm and aunt may was begging for her life, that's why secret identites need to be secret. He says this in the Metal costume. He makes the coming-out speech... in the old costume. Fishy to me.

I can't wait for issue 3, and thus far I really like where they are going with it. Fuck you all, I -like- Bendis and Millar and most of the young talent at marvel. I like the majority of Quesada's decisions. I like marvel right now and what they are doing.

VERY nice, Pawn. I have too agree with that. Tony Stark is a buisness man and he would stoop too doing somthing like that. THis could be the reason why we see Peter fighting Tony 2 issues later. just picked up the issue and one of my favorite things about this event is that it plays more on obscure characters. In house of M (Which I loved), we got too see alot of Obscure mutants, in CIvil War, we see alot of Obscure heroes. I was like "HOly crap, thats Cable!" when they showed Cap and the growing underground resistance. and got too see Nighthawk and Goliath in the first issue. It looks like the event is building too Kingdom Come-like status, with the "42" that Stark and Richards mensioned sounding alot like the Gulog from Kingdom Come. This thing is going too be huge. Thor is returning, All out war, The Watcher Watching, I'm totally pumped

my only complaint about issue 2 is that it was too short. Spent over 4 dollars and it was gone too fast.. all well

[AfterglowNoMore]

God I hope you're right Fate. I'd hate to have to give up one of the few Marvel books I still buy.

[Solario]

This is Messiah Cable, right? Not Techno-organic-prolapse Cable, right? And I hope you're right, Pawn.

[Nerfed]

I like it.

But then again, I have my suspicions behind why Peter did it. (And more to the fact that it might not even be peter, just a ploy from Iron Man to out one of the most secretive heros of our time, hence the old costume that Iron Man just happened to have... as well as the web shooters... since he made a new costume for peter).
Nope, sorry. Its definitely Peter. The reason he's wearing the old suit is because his Aunt May gave it to him so there'd be no doubt in the public's mind who he is... she fixed up that old suit because, though the new Iron-Spidey suit is a smarter thing to wear into a fight, the red & blue carries significant recognition factor.


The main reason I believe that it's NOT peter... is because he mentions earlier in Issue #1 that his wife was impaled on an octopus arm and aunt may was begging for her life, that's why secret identites need to be secret. He says this in the Metal costume. He makes the coming-out speech... in the old costume. Fishy to me.
He really believed the idea of keeping secret identities secret almost up until the end. He got the hard sell from Stark after he met with the President at the White House... and Peter was thinking of taking every bit of cash he could scrounge from his personal accounts that he didn't share with M.J. (not much) and running off to Canada or Europe.

However, once he got home, both Mary Jane and Aunt May pretty much talked Peter into going along with Stark's crazy plan... noting also the fact that even if he chose to side against Stark, Stark knows who he is and could out him anyway making Peter a fugitive once the law is passed.

I can't wait for issue 3, and thus far I really like where they are going with it. Fuck you all, I -like- Bendis and Millar and most of the young talent at marvel. I like the majority of Quesada's decisions. I like marvel right now and what they are doing.
Bendis is an arrogant asshole, and Millar doesn't impress me in the least... but "fuck you" right back for the opinion. I hate Marvel right now, and I hate everything they are doing. I hope Galactus shows up in CW #3 and just eats the planet while everyone is squabbling over legal issues.

[Solario]

The sadist in me wants Peter's life to be systematically destroyed from this point forth. Starting with assassinating Mary Jane, Flash, Aunt May, Betty Brant, Robbie and anyone who has ever had any relationship with him. It should end off with Peter, teethless, moneyless and fumbling around the streets of New York in his Spider-man costume half-ripped in a trenchcoat screaming like a crazy person about "where did it go wrong?" and "I am da Spida man!" Any bad thing that happens from this point is completely his own fault and I have a hard time sympathizing with the character.

Peter, as a character, should be punished for this transgretion against his core values. And I just don't think JMS or Quesada understands the characters well enough to write them or even advice about them.

And I like Millar and Bendis. I just don't think they should be involved in "mega-events." Far as I'm concerned there's been one good "event involving multiple characters" the last couple of years and that's Morrison's Seven Soldiers.

[MajorMarvel]

This is Messiah Cable, right? Not Techno-organic-prolapse Cable, right? And I hope you're right, Pawn.

Messiah cable, or X-man, has been dead since 2000. Became one with the earths energy fields. This is Techno Organic Prolapse Cable.

[MajorMarvel]

The sadist in me wants Peter's life to be systematically destroyed from this point forth. Starting with assassinating Mary Jane, Flash, Aunt May, Betty Brant, Robbie and anyone who has ever had any relationship with him. It should end off with Peter, teethless, moneyless and fumbling around the streets of New York in his Spider-man costume half-ripped in a trenchcoat screaming like a crazy person about "where did it go wrong?" and "I am da Spida man!" Any bad thing that happens from this point is completely his own fault and I have a hard time sympathizing with the character.

Peter, as a character, should be punished for this transgretion against his core values. And I just don't think JMS or Quesada understands the characters well enough to write them or even advice about them.

And I like Millar and Bendis. I just don't think they should be involved in "mega-events." Far as I'm concerned there's been one good "event involving multiple characters" the last couple of years and that's Morrison's Seven Soldiers.

here you go, Solario. From Civil War #5
forgive the stretchyness

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CivilWar/CIVWAR005_cov_100.jpg

[Half Life]

Whats with Venom all of a sudden having eyballs, my all time favorite character now looks like an idiot....

[MajorMarvel]

Whats with Venom all of a sudden having eyballs, my all time favorite character now looks like an idiot....

thats not Eddie Brock. Eddie died of Cancer a while back. thats Mac Gargan, formerly the Scorpian. He got the symbiote during the big Spiderman MK series between issues 1-12, written by Mark Miller. good series. mostly was about Spidey getting his ass kicked by every different direction. this was RIGHT before he joined the New Avengers. story was good and it offered an interesting insight as too why supervillains specifically fight specific superheros

[PawnOfFate]

Bendis is an arrogant asshole, and Millar doesn't impress me in the least... but "fuck you" right back for the opinion. I hate Marvel right now, and I hate everything they are doing. I hope Galactus shows up in CW #3 and just eats the planet while everyone is squabbling over legal issues.


It's posts like this that make me go "Why bother?" I mean, if you hate marvel so much, why are you bothering to read the books? Obviously, DC isn't doing anything big enough to warrant your attention, so you're reading this "trash" and bashing it every step of the way. I read both DC and Marvel, Both have their good and their bad but I don't go onto a thread about a book I don't like and start preaching.

You don't see me going over to the 52 thread and trash everything there because I happen to think it's a poorly concieved notion, and that Black Adam is just another one of those "bad boy so he's cool" characters (same reason I hate wolverine with a passion).

Again, Civil War is shaping up to be a very intriguing story and I'm very interested in where it's going from here. Issue #3 is where it's going to come to blows, and I really want to see Cap clock Tony. That'll be priceless.

I am also looking forward to the YA/Runaways crossover, considering those are two of my favorite books.

[TheImperial]

... it offered an interesting insight as too why supervillains specifically fight specific superheros

Which was?

[MajorMarvel]

Which was?

I cant find the main description but it involved somthing about how too keep superheroes in check some organization secretly and very covertly gave people the means too become the supervillains and they would cause small acts too make sure they continually fight each other.

that was it in a nutshell

[Solario]

They implied that the reason certain heroes were attacked by certain villains was because Corporate America was doing so in an attempt to hinder superheroes from messing too much with the Status Quo.

And critique of a book is just as valid as praise.

[PawnOfFate]

Critique of a book is valid, yes...

But "I hate marvel" and "Bendis is an arrogant asshole" Isn't much of a critique. Saying I like something is generally enough to get an impression from someone, but saying "i hate blah" without following it with a "Because..." or offering alternatives is a poor way to communicate. Perhaps I'm just too stuck in the world of middle management where critique has to offer solutions to the problem.

[Nerfed]

Critique of a book is valid, yes...

But "I hate marvel" and "Bendis is an arrogant asshole" Isn't much of a critique. Saying I like something is generally enough to get an impression from someone, but saying "i hate blah" without following it with a "Because..." or offering alternatives is a poor way to communicate. Perhaps I'm just too stuck in the world of middle management where critique has to offer solutions to the problem.
You may be right, saying things like Fuck you all, I -like- Bendis and Millar and most of the young talent at marvel. I like the majority of Quesada's decisions. I like marvel right now and what they are doing.
doesn't lend your criticism of other people's critiques any credibility whatsoever.

[Kinetix]

You may be right, saying things like
doesn't lend your criticism of other people's critiques any credibility whatsoever.

Sounds exactly what you're bashing Fate.

[Half Life]

Regardless of whos in the suit, venom looks retarded with eyeballs

[Chain Lightning]

Anyone besides me think the particpants (Iron Man, Cap and Spidey) are also acting kind of out of character for them?

[AfterglowNoMore]

Anyone besides me think the particpants (Iron Man, Cap and Spidey) are also acting kind of out of character for them?
I'd say that Cap is a little out of character, and Spidey is way out of character, But Iron Man seems like himself. He's a businessman, he sees things from more than one view point. Plus, he's revealed his identity more times than Anne Heche has changed her sexual orientation.

[Noble]

I have a question:

Who are all of the heroes standing in the secret shield bunker that are part of the resistance when Cap and Falcon arrive with the Young Avengers?

The ones that I recognize are Daredevil, Luke Cage, Cloak and Dagger, Cable (I think), but then there are about maybe 3 or 4 people I don't recognize. I don't even know all of the young avengers and what their powers are either. Guess I need to look that up.

[MajorMarvel]

I have a question:

Who are all of the heroes standing in the secret shield bunker that are part of the resistance when Cap and Falcon arrive with the Young Avengers?

The ones that I recognize are Daredevil, Luke Cage, Cloak and Dagger, Cable (I think), but then there are about maybe 3 or 4 people I don't recognize. I don't even know all of the young avengers and what their powers are either. Guess I need to look that up.

Black Goliath and Hercules are in there also.

[Noble]

what about the two ladies standing between Luke Cage and Cap America. One is wearing a lab coat and the other has dark hair and is wearing what looks like a blue life preserver and a lab coat.

[Poison]

Regardless of whos in the suit, venom looks retarded with eyeballs I agree. And Venom will always be Brock for me.

[MajorMarvel]

what about the two ladies standing between Luke Cage and Cap America. One is wearing a lab coat and the other has dark hair and is wearing what looks like a blue life preserver and a lab coat.

I'll venture a guess on one of them. One is probably Lukes Wife, Jessica Jones. the other is...I dunno

[Nerfed]

Anyone besides me think the particpants (Iron Man, Cap and Spidey) are also acting kind of out of character for them?
Definitely!

I think Cap's been acting out of character ever since Iron Man was able to talk him into allowing Wolverine onto the team.

Iron Man's been acting out of character since he gave up on the Avengers after the Scarlet Witch went nutzo... and then went back to acting in character by finally going along with the whole "New Avengers" crap including financing them, bringing out the more-expensive-than-ever quinjets, and giving them a posh HQ again.

Spider-man? Its been so long since I've seen him in character that I almost didn't recognize it when it happened recently. Watching him agonize over his finances and the idea of leaving the country to protect his wife and aunt... yeah, suddenly he's back in character. Only now, MJ and Aunt May aren't what with talking him into revealing his secret ID.