Mexicans "are doing the work that not even blacks want"

[MikeKAY]

MEX. PREZ FEELS HEAT OVER BLACK REMARKS


May 15, 2005 -- Mexican President Vicente Fox came under fire yesterday for saying Mexicans were willing to take jobs "that not even blacks want to do in the United States."

"There's no doubt that the Mexican men and women — full of dignity, willpower and a capacity for work — are doing the work that not even blacks want to do in the United States," Fox told a meeting of the Texas-Mexico Frozen Food Council in Puerto Vallarta on Friday.

Fox's remark came a day after Mexico announced it would formally protest recent U.S. immigration reforms, including the decision to extend walls along the border and make it harder for illegal migrants to get driver's licenses.

While Mexican newspaper Milenio called Fox's comment "racist" in a front-page headline, and the newspaper Reforma called the president's words "controversial," the Rev. Jesse Jackson called them "unwitting, unnecessary and inappropriate."

He said the president "should not confuse the need for sound legal immigration policy between the two countries, which is important, and the border disputes between the two countries, with a spurious comparison."

Mexico's foreign relations secretary, Luis Derbez, said Fox was not motivated by racism, but was emphasizing that "Mexican migrants are making great contributions in the United States and that their role is a positive role."

Linkey (http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/44081.htm)
__________________________________

You have GOT to be freaking kidding me... O_o

[Solario]

What a racist.

[Magna Harrier]

Well, unfortunatley, racism rises in falls in waves that are proportionate to the maount of that race in the area. When a large amount of one race arrives in an area, it causes panic by the "locals", who feel their way of life, jobs, etc, are threatened. Hence, racism becomes prevelent. As the two (or more) groups learn to live and work together in everyday life, the racism tends to decline and or dissapear (for the most part). In Mexico, certain areas just don't have enough black citizens for the locals to know better. It's not an excuse, but ignorant racism is better than informed racism in my book. Of course, the dude is the president, so he really should know better.

[Solario]

Of course, the dude is the president, so he really should know better.

Since when was that an actuality? I seem to recall a certain other president, who, arguably, hasn't always known better.


To sidetrack even further, I hate the arguement, that imigrants are "stealing our jobs" (I hear that assessment here in Denmark too), to quote Maddox (who's a bit of an ass, but right, when he's not being sarcastic):

"News flash: immigrants aren't taking anything from Americans. Companies like WalMart are giving jobs to them illegally. If WalMart paid a company to hire immigrants to do the job over Americans then there's probably a good reason for it. I'm sick and tired of lazy gluttonous Americans bitching about immigrants "taking" our jobs. It's not like they can literally come to America, ambush us in the parking lot and take our jobs.

If you lose your job to an immigrant, it's probably because he or she was willing to work harder for less money. Don't want to pay them full wages? Then don't hire them. If they do equal work, then they deserve equal pay. It's just that simple, and I'm not going to sit back like every other racist piece of **** bitching about having to work harder because there's a little competition for my job, immigrant or otherwise. I know I can do my job better than anyone, and if an immigrant thinks he can do a better job than I can, I welcome him to try."

[Magna Harrier]

I hear that. Sadly, our much vaunted "free market" sysytem in this country has become something of a joke. Our farm goods and cars are so heavily subsidised it's a joke(and it's looking to get worse with cars, if our current president and the auto-industry heads with their hands up his butt have their way.) If someone comes along and does the job better for less, what does the right-wing, in their "free markeyt mentality" do? Do they lower prices, or at least TRY to become competative? No, they lobby the hell out of their little paid seats in DC to eliminate the competition through tariffs.
Super-thread-hijiack... go! (kidding)

[Alumette]

Since when was that an actuality? I seem to recall a certain other president, who, arguably, hasn't always known better.


To sidetrack even further, I hate the arguement, that imigrants are "stealing our jobs" (I hear that assessment here in Denmark too), to quote Maddox (who's a bit of an ass, but right, when he's not being sarcastic):

"News flash: immigrants aren't taking anything from Americans. Companies like WalMart are giving jobs to them illegally. If WalMart paid a company to hire immigrants to do the job over Americans then there's probably a good reason for it. I'm sick and tired of lazy gluttonous Americans bitching about immigrants "taking" our jobs. It's not like they can literally come to America, ambush us in the parking lot and take our jobs.

If you lose your job to an immigrant, it's probably because he or she was willing to work harder for less money. Don't want to pay them full wages? Then don't hire them. If they do equal work, then they deserve equal pay. It's just that simple, and I'm not going to sit back like every other racist piece of **** bitching about having to work harder because there's a little competition for my job, immigrant or otherwise. I know I can do my job better than anyone, and if an immigrant thinks he can do a better job than I can, I welcome him to try."


Amen, bro. I have such a beef with WalMart it's not even funny. Don't even get me started.

At the moment I live 30 miles outside my city (one more year till I can move back! I can't wait! I love my city!) and the nearest grocery is a Wal-Mart.

Every week I drive the 30 miles to and from the city to get groceries at the local store there because I refuse to shop at WalMart. I have never spent a dime of my money there and never will.

Back to the topic at hand, remember that these remarks are taken out of context. On the surface they look appalling, and in truth he should most certainly have thought more carefully about what he was saying and how it would be perceived (Politics 101), but to make the leap from a poorly-framed out-of-context remark to a person's global attitudes towards race is kind of a large jump. None of us knows what President Fox's attitudes towards race are, and furthermore, there is a lot of institutional racism that bleeds into everything every one of us does/says. What we do know is, he is concerned about US immigration policy and how that may affect his constituents and their families. Granted, there aren't many more graceless ways to express that in my book, but let's not make assumptions about his worldview from a single remark.

[Esbat]

Even in a bordertown, such as where I live, the undocumented and mexican citizens with work visas work a bulk of the fast food/janitorial/stocking/babysitting/housekeeping jobs, whilst the mexican-american citizens tend to either work the better paying versions of these jobs / be the managers over the mexican workers / or not work and live off the welfare system.

[Stalking Shadow]

An assumption that I think lots of people make is that illegal immigrants come to the US to stay. On the contrary, most "immigrate" for seasonal work like farm labor. Walmarts, manufacturing jobs, and other stuff in the service industry are difficult jobs for illegal immigrants because they have no infrastructure to support them. Service industry and manufacturing jobs tend to be closely monitored by the INS. At the other end of the spectrum, in states like California, migrant worker populations form the backbone of the agricultural farmwork workforce.

One of the big things that Mexico is pushing for isn't to let illegal immigrants become just simple facts of life in the US. Mexico wants migrant workers to be recognized under a "Migrant Worker" status, rather than forced by neccesity to put up with sub-standard and even life-threatening lifestyles in the hopes of supporting their families. Things like temporary driver's licenses, limited health-care/welfare for migrant workers, letting them be legally recognized human beings rather than agricorporately exploited resources. Needless to say, Vincente Fox was tactless in how he said what he said, but there's a grain of truth there: migrant workers do the work that Americans would avoid like the plague, and they do it well.

[Esbat]

Service industry and manufacturing jobs tend to be closely monitored by the INS.

If only whomever does the background checks and inspections weren't being bribed down here... :grr:

[Stalking Shadow]

There's a difference: there are actually people to bribe in the service industry. No hurdles like that for agriculture.

[vyxzuw]

Shouldn't this be in the debates forum? (It's not spam...although it doesn't HAVE to be moved.)

[MikeKAY]

An assumption that I think lots of people make is that illegal immigrants come to the US to stay. On the contrary, most "immigrate" for seasonal work like farm labor. Walmarts, manufacturing jobs, and other stuff in the service industry are difficult jobs for illegal immigrants because they have no infrastructure to support them. Service industry and manufacturing jobs tend to be closely monitored by the INS. At the other end of the spectrum, in states like California, migrant worker populations form the backbone of the agricultural farmwork workforce.

This is very true. Even all the way up here in the North East we get about a dozen Mexicans that come here to do roofs for a couple months. They have been coming and going back now for four years. They don't do bad work from what I hear. Nice enough people to, they eat lunch almost everyday at a place my friend works at.

Shouldn't this be in the debates forum? (It's not spam...although it doesn't HAVE to be moved.)

To be honest I'm not sure how much attention the Debate forum actually gets, you are probably right though.

[Stalking Shadow]

I'm not seeing any debate, really. Just constructive conversation. :p

[Krypto]

DAMN, that's a pretty big flub for a president to say.


To sidetrack even further, I hate the arguement, that imigrants are "stealing our jobs" (I hear that assessment here in Denmark too), to quote Maddox (who's a bit of an ass, but right, when he's not being sarcastic):

Ugh, I ****ing hate Maddox.

Want to know my opinion? The asshole needs to quit bitching about other people's lives and actually get one of his own.

[Solario]

Maddox actually isn't so bad, I seem to recall him actually roaming the NeXusRPG forum for a short while. Much more constructive and less an ass, than on his site. I'm pretty sure his website is just an outlet for him with some of his opinions and some of it is just to piss people off.

[Blackbat]

Back to the topic at hand, remember that these remarks are taken out of context. On the surface they look appalling, and in truth he should most certainly have thought more carefully about what he was saying and how it would be perceived (Politics 101), but to make the leap from a poorly-framed out-of-context remark to a person's global attitudes towards race is kind of a large jump. None of us knows what President Fox's attitudes towards race are, and furthermore, there is a lot of institutional racism that bleeds into everything every one of us does/says. What we do know is, he is concerned about US immigration policy and how that may affect his constituents and their families. Granted, there aren't many more graceless ways to express that in my book, but let's not make assumptions about his worldview from a single remark.

I don't believe that this was a just a badly spoken remark. I find his remark highly offensive and believe he truly meant it.

Saying that "Mexicans are doing the work that not even blacks want" is hard to misunderstand. Obviously he thinks that African Americans are the lowest of the low in terms of races. It just upsets me, which it shouldn't, this is nothing new. Regardless, it gets under my skin.

[Magna Harrier]

Much as I would like to give him the "I mispoke" pass, is there really a good way that quote could be taken?