Been gone since I5, time to make a run for it.

[TheImperial]

I'll keep this short and sweet.

I haven't really played a tank (much less CoX as a whole) substantially since issue five. However, I've come back and am wanting to *finally* take the Old Man from 27 to 50.

Basically, though, I'm completely in the dark as to how a Tanker acts these days - more specifically, an Inv / Mace tanker.

Anything in particular I should be aware of?

[Greblaja]

Well, the stories are true regarding the tanker changes (and ED): tanker defenses (Resistance and Defense) are much weaker than they used to be. I would advise stocking up on a variety of inspirations as you start out to get the feel where your new limits will be. Personally, I had to play a lot of low level tanks to recalibrate myself to this new age of 'fragility': as you have been away for a while, you likely won't need that sort of adjustment, more that you just jump in with Imp and get a feel for how he does.

The good that has come of these change (IMHO), is that tankers aren't forced to be quite the placesetters they used to be: as a tank, I no longer have to get pissy about stacking everything up in a nice tight bundle before allowing others to play. There are times you still get to do it (and it's still a ton of fun to do) but in many encounters you need to take a 'soft' alpha strike, you need the various holds/mezzes/flippy-floppy powers to attack right when you do (or just after) or you may take a great deal more damage than the team is comfortable with. You are still the group's defender, watching heath bars and the like, but the days of "zero tollerance of not-on-me-agro" are thankfully gone. All of the ATs are in there at once, which is fun for everyone, and makes for a better all around game. It has certainly made the game much more fun for me.

As The Imperial is level 27, my closest data point to how he would feel toughness-wise is my tank, American Ant (he's somewhere in the low to mid 20s). I haven't played him much at all since I5 (not even re-spec'd yet), but what I did notice is the marked difference in his play fighting against certain groups (CoT jumps crisply to mind). You can now very easily get overwhelmed by groups that used to be, frankly, rather trival to fight against. Again, just be aware that your durability is quite different now than it used to be. You may want to solo a couple of missions, then steadily work up to bigger and bigger groups.

I have no significant experience with Mace - I regret I have no wisdom for you there. I will say that when you reach the 40s, if Mace is at all comperable to Super Strength, you will be able to solo most of the mission arcs that include Elite Boss versions of the numerous AVs you encounter along the way. I found this significantly encouraging, and by far the greatest factor that got Blue Hammer off his lvl 44 resting post and up to (as of this writing) lvl 48.8: tanks may not be as tough as they once were, but they are still plenty tough in terms of what they can take on in this game.

That's it off the top of my head. Hope this helps, but most of all, welcome back: it's good to have you back on the streets of Paragon. :)

[TheImperial]

I haven't respected Imp since before issue 5 went live.

What powers should I pick up and dump sue to the changes / nerfs?

Also, how should I slot everything as a result of ED?

[Greblaja]

There are some varrying opinions as to what powers to take in the Invuln set. For example, it has been demonstrated (on the tanker forums) that having aid-self is more effective at restoring hit points than the passive resists are at preventing damage: many tanks will choose aid-other/aid-self over these passives. I tend to think that such things will eventually be balanced out, and further that whipping out a tri-corder is so not Blue Hammer's style, so I opt to take the tradional route and take all of the passives.

BH, in fact, he has every power in the Invuln family. I am actively looking at his spec to find a way to get one of the Epic sets in there, and I have been looking hard at the Invuln powers: but I just can't justify taking any of them out of his spec. Whatever measly amount of damage is resisted by the passives, it's still better than nothing. Unyielding, Invincibility and Temporary Invulnerability are still gotta-haves for me. That leaves Dull Pain (big self heal in a pinch), Tough Hide (a nice, passive, pure Defense), and Unstoppable (the ultimate "oh !@#$" power), all of which I'd still rather have than not.

Those that advocate taking Tough over TI, or Aid-self over the passives have very compelling arguments for doing so. Such paths do tend to require more throw away or highly situational powers as prerequesites, though. I guess I'd rather invest in having more strong attacks to better my chances to have an attack/taunt when being hammered by slows. I guess I like to keep it simple, too.

So in short, to answer your question, there really is no right or wrong way to proceed, as far as defensive power selection is concerned. You're going to have to do some research on your own to figure out what seems best for you. (FYI, if you're a number-head, BuffySummers (sp?) has a thread in the tanker forums where she lists all of the resist and defense numbers for all pertinent tanker powers.)

As for slotting with ED, the rule at hand is that it's not worth slotting more than 3 of any one type of enhancement within a particular power. So, for example, for an attack, having more than three damage enhancers is wasteful, as you are getting next to no bang for that extra enhancment, and you are taking away a slot that could be used for something else (accuracy, recharge reducer, endurance reducer, etc). The 'lemon' of that with many Invuln powers is that some of our powers only accept one sort of enhancement so diversification is not applicable, and those powers are overall weaker. The 'lemonade' is that we are assured, now, of being able to fully slot other powers in our arsenal that might otherwise be skimped on.

So, as for how to slot, pop in up to 3 defense/resist enhancements in all of your defensive powers and flavor the rest to taste. Personally, I (mostly) have fully slotted attacks, each with damage, accuracy and endurance reduction, some with recharge and taunt. I am also debating adding hold durations to KO blow. I also run at least one End reducer in all of my passives (2 in Unyielding).

Hope this helps. I can post BH's current spec later if you like. Just let me know.

[TheImperial]

Greblaja,

You've been increadibly healpful.

Thanks so much.

[Greblaja]

Anytime - always glad to help :)

[ThunderMace]

I posted a build for Frost Samson about an Inv/Axe tank in the Pimp my tank thread. many of the stuff I put would apply to you as well.

[Impact]

Samson? ;)

Anyway, I'd like to second checking that build out. I took Midgardian (my level 14, but 12 at the time) tank out with a team of mostly 20s and was sk'ed up taking on 21s and 22s throughout the night and it actually surprised me how tough he was to be missing the powers I'd have picked up if I were actually that level :) Definately made me think a little higher of invuln than I have in the past. But then again I'm only 14 so I've got a while to go ;)

[Remianen]

Note: My highest inv/mace is currently 17 so much of the following advice is coming from more of an "on paper" perspective than play experience.

The only advice I can give at this point is to really decide on what works best for you and your concept. My concepts are generally very fluid (which was a learned behavior from all the nerfage) so I wouldn't be stuck with an unplayable (to me) character, no matter what Cryptic decides to do. For my inv tankers, the aid self line of thought works best, so I generally skip over the passives. But that's coming from a person used to playing /regen so active health management isn't a foreign concept at all.

Greblaja basically summed it up nicely though. You're now a lot squishier than you used to be. :) I hope this doesn't happen but there are times when a scrapper may be chosen to "tank" over you (it's happened to me, as the scrapper, in 2 TFs so far - Sister Psyche on Clamor and Synapse on Babbage and the Clockwork King). This has nothing to do with your abilities as a tank usually. It's more about who has more tools to control the encounter. Like, against Clamor, the team basically left me on her while they handled the rest of the room because I could keep myself upright with little to no support from the defenders/controllers. The tank held court with the other mobs to assist in controlling the situation better.

War Mace needs some dev love, seriously. I'll leave it at that. Besides that, it's just an adjustment in attitude and approach that's required. Slot TI and Unyielding with 1 or more end reduction and 3 damage resist. Invincibility has a few more options, depending on how you wish to use it. Your attacks should be 1 (or 2) accuracy, 3 damage (no more), an end redux (or two), and/or maybe a recharge reduction or disorient duration (where applicable). No more than 3 of any one type in ANY power. Short version for the non-numbers oriented is, an SO for say accuracy or damage increases a power by 33%, right? Wrong. If it's the 3rd accuracy or damage in the same power, it's 29%. If it's the fourth (or fifth or sixth) accuracy or damage in the same power, it's......5%. Not worth the cash to do that. Cost:benefit ratio is WAY off. Other powers you slot are more of a "to taste" issue. I 3 slot Health in all of my characters (of all ATs, especially regen scrappers) and later on, will 3-slot Swift as well. I value movement and passive health regeneration a great deal. After all, think of how different an AV fight would be if they regenned like a minion. Regen is HUGE (to me). Dull pain must be slotted like this: 3 recharge, 3 heal. Why that is requires a bit of a long, drawn out explanation but the short version is, it heals more in addition to increasing your HP.


bah, I'll need to ask you questions fairly soon. Once I7 drops and I respec Dawncall, I may start playing her frequently again. :p

[Sword]

I'm a bit rusty on my Tank builds atm but the Inv/Axe build ThunderMace posted in the Pimp Up My Tank thread looks very good. Simply adjust it for Mace (Axe and Mace being allmost identical, it should be pretty easy)

[TheImperial]

Your advice has been really helpful, guys. I sure do appreciate it.

And man, Mace definately needs some Dev Love (tm), but we all know not to expect that.