Gamespy article on Patron Powers

[Sword]

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/city-of-villians/689170p1.html

[Morcalivan7]

We talk with Matt Miller about the upcoming Issue 7, Patron Powers, Lord Recluse's victory, and much more.

By Allen "Delsyn" Rausch | Feb. 16, 2006


For all the virtues of City of Heroes, the remarkably enjoyable NCSoft MMO that lets players pull on the spangled tights of super-powered do-gooders, something always seemed to be missing. That missing element, of course, was vice -- specifically the ability for players to play as the bad guy, the Lex Luthor to City of Heroes' Superman. That's why the launch of City of Villains came as such a breath of foul air to Paragon City. Players could finally take on the role of crim ... err, the "morally challenged," and go toe-to-toe and fist-to-face with the forces of goodness and righteousness in PvP.

For all the plaudits that City of Villains received, though, it was hard not to notice that the game was incomplete. Among other things, there simply wasn't any of the exciting level 40-50 endgame content that heroes had access to. There were also complaints about the game's "feel" being too similar to City of Heroes, with missions that felt like mere redresses of heroic missions and not enough opportunity to be truly bad.

If there's one thing NCSoft and Cryptic Studios has proven with City of Heroes, though, it's that they won't sit still when there are improvements to be made. Sure enough, when the company's first major content release after the launch of City of Villains ("Issue 7: Destiny Manifest") was announced, it was all about the villains. Villainous players are finally getting the 40-50 content that will put them on a level playing field with the heroes, and they'll also be getting two new PvP zones, including a high-end region where they can fight against Lord Recluse himself. GameSpy recently sat down with Matt Miller, Systems Designer for City of Villains for a discussion about the reaction to City of Villains, what's coming in Issue 7, and a bit about the future of the City of… franchise.

GameSpy: The general consensus for City of Villains was that the game was excellent (we certainly enjoyed it at GameSpy), but it wasn't quite the revelation the first game was, nor was it without its flaws. What was the team's reaction as reviews started to come in?

Matt Miller: The team has always had a very positive attitude about City of Villains. We appreciated the fact that many reviewers looked upon the title as both an expansion and a stand-alone, and reviewed it under both merits. Overall we were very pleased with the reviews. Many of the reviews went a long way into lifting our spirits after undergoing the grueling effort of putting it out.

GameSpy: Were there universal elements of praise the game received that you were surprised or gratified by?

Miller: We were very pleased to see players take to the PvP zones as well as they did. We spend a lot of time in there ourselves gathering the meteor in Bloody Bay and bounty hunting in Siren's Call.

[Morcalivan7]

GameSpy: What are you doing anything to expand the game's PvP?

Miller: We're adding another PvP zone called "Recluse's Victory" for high level characters. We're also making a few tweaks to PvP game balance to make sure that PvP is fun for everyone, regardless of what archetype they choose to play.

GameSpy: Were there any criticisms of the game that particularly resonated, and how are you taking steps to address them?

Miller: Sure, there were a lot of complaints about the base/lair system having a huge barrier of entry. To improve this we're adding new base items that are self-powered and allow players to use their Salvage to give themselves some pretty sweet buffs. These will inevitably be the first items purchased by many small Supergroups, since they give bases functionality almost out of the box. We're looking to get these into players' hands as soon as possible.

GameSpy: With each issue, it seems that the new base features come closer and closer to a true "crafting" system. Is this where the game is heading, a real crafting system?

Miller: That's the goal. The current base item creation system is the foundation for the "invention system" in City of Heroes and City of Villains. That's not to say you need a base to craft. The Universities were put in for a reason.

GameSpy: What about the fan community? How have City of Heroes fans reacted to the launch of City of Villains?

Miller: A large percentage purchased City of Villains and upgraded their accounts. They like the things that villains finally brought to the game, like Bases and PvP zones. I think we all agree that heroes need villains in order to be fully defined.

GameSpy: What kind of praise and criticisms have you gotten from them?

Miller: The best praise we've gotten has been players who have taken a shine to the new archetypes. We really wanted to "think outside the box" on these guys and we think we got some really unique gameplay out of them. Each archetype has their own little mini-game, and players who latched onto that fact love it.

The biggest criticism is that villains just didn't seem villainous enough. That's fair, but a line had to be drawn somewhere, and not everyone is going to agree with where we drew it. The very open-ended "Mayhem Missions" in Issue 7 turned the opportunities to cause havoc and be villainous up a notch, though.

GameSpy: Then what are you doing to address that?

Miller: We're definitely doing our best to make you feel like a villain, while still staying within our moral boundaries. By adding mayhem missions to the brokers in City of Villains, we finally give villains a chance to let loose. You'll get your own instanced area of Paragon City in which to blow stuff up, fend off the cops, and, if you're not having too much fun outside, enter a well defended bank and attempt to rob it before the time is up. There's even a chance of a signature hero showing up to put an end to your crime spree.

[Morcalivan7]

GameSpy: Has most of the player traffic in City of Villains been new players or have City of Heroes players been switching sides?

Miller: Both, really. We got a lot of new customers with City of Villains, but the gameplay between the two games is unique enough that even Heroes players with a lot of time under their belt are giving Villains a shot, simply because we took a different approach to the content of the game.

GameSpy: Give us a brief overview of "Issue 7 -- Destiny Manifest." What kinds of things can players expect in this issue?

Miller: Issue 7's primary content is the last ten levels of the City of Villains game. This includes "Grandville," a vertical zone that is home to the most powerful villains of Arachnos and their enemies. We're also releasing a new PvP zone called "Recluse's Victory," where players can literally change the look of the zone with their actions. Naturally, all high level heroes will also be able to access this zone.

We're adding new "mayhem missions" that allow players to take their villain characters into an instanced version of Paragon City and cause havoc while completing timed missions. This includes being able to now destroy hundreds of environmental objects and send pedestrians running in terror!

Some other new stuff includes Electric Melee and Electric Armor power sets for Brutes and Thug pets for Masterminds. Bases are getting the items that give buffs for salvage, there are some really cool new character costume items, and a ton of little "quality of life" improvements.

GameSpy: You've called Grandville a "vertical zone." What can we expect in this area and what's a "vertical zone?"

Miller: Grandville takes the symbolism of "working your way up the ladder of Arachnos" and personifies it. Players start at the bottom in the gutter and things get tougher and harder the higher up they go. As you work your way up vertically, you are proving yourself more and more, gaining the notice of Lord Recluse himself. The feel is a lot like Mercy Island, where you see Mercy City before you can actually get to it. Grandville should evoke the same type of feelings, and kind of bring the Rogue Isles full circle.

[Morcalivan7]

GameSpy: What can you tell us about Recluse's Victory?

Miller: We love the "mini-game" aspect to our PvP zones. It gives players a goal other than just "gank the other guy." Recluse's Victory is the most complicated PvP zone we have ever done. Your actions in the zone will sway control of it between Freedom Corps and Arachnos. I don't want to give too much away, but I think gameplay in this zone will be nothing like the players have seen before in an MMO.

GameSpy: Will players be able to battle Lord Recluse himself?

Miller: Yes, you get to face off against Lord Recluse, and if you prove to him you are his equal in personal combat you will unlock the chance to face off against his greatest enemy.

GameSpy: Will You're adding something called "patron powers" with this issue. What are they and how do they work?

Miller: Patron Powers are the equivalent to the epic power pools in City of Heroes. That's not to say they are identical. You only get one patron power pool for your character, and the choice is permanent. It has powers flavored towards the patron you chose, and not toward any particular special effect. This makes it a bear to balance in PvP, since heroes will have access to epic pools, and villains do nos. We think that players will enjoy the different gameplay of level 40-plus Heroes versus level 40-plus Villains.

GameSpy: It's got to be tough trying to balance a game this enormous, while continuing to provide new content. What keeps you going?

Miller: The players. We love the fact that the players are so passionate about the City of… franchise. We get a lot of feedback from our players, some positive and some negative. In either case, there is no shortage of passion because everyone wants to see the game be as good as possible. Constructive criticism is always good in my book. We do listen to the players, and although they may not agree with every decision we make, I hope they can understand our reasoning behind them. All we want is to keep players excited with fresh new content, storylines, and game systems.

[Astartus]

2 new PvP zones?

I thought only "Recluse's Victory" was a PvP zone and "Grandville" was the villain "Peregrine Isle" pendant

But it is nice to hear that the University system hasn't gone down the pipe completly

[NibblerJr]

Nice find, Sword man! :)

[Morcalivan7]

2 new PvP zones?

I thought only "Recluse's Victory" was a PvP zone and "Grandville" was the villain "Peregrine Isle" pendant

But it is nice to hear that the University system hasn't gone down the pipe completly

Astartus is on teh crack!

1 PvP, 1 PvE.

[Darknesse]

Miller: Patron Powers are the equivalent to the epic power pools in City of Heroes. That's not to say they are identical. You only get one patron power pool for your character, and the choice is permanent. It has powers flavored towards the patron you chose, and not toward any particular special effect. This makes it a bear to balance in PvP, since heroes will have access to epic pools, and villains do not.

I take this to mean that the patron powers are weaker than the epics

We think that players will enjoy the different gameplay of level 40-plus Heroes versus level 40-plus Villains.


I take this to mean that the hero gameplay will be to kick our asses up and down the street while the villian gameplay will be trying to survive.

[The Widowed]

I take this to mean that the hero gameplay will be to kick our asses up and down the street while the villian gameplay will be trying to survive.
Then again, when was the last time you heard of comic book villains attaining a victory and keeping it despite any and all of the heroes' comeback attempts? Besides Doom 2099, I mean. :cool:

I swear, the way Cryptic handles City of Superfolks looks awkward and clueless, but for all we know their gameplan could be Machiavellian as hell. :D

[Remianen]

GameSpy: Will players be able to battle Lord Recluse himself?

Miller: Yes, you get to face off against Lord Recluse, and if you prove to him you are his equal in personal combat you will unlock the chance to face off against his greatest enemy.

OMG, I get the chance to put the boots to Statesman?

Okay, I'm taking off work next month. I SO hope that's what that means.

[Darknesse]

Then again, when was the last time you heard of comic book villains attaining a victory and keeping it despite any and all of the heroes' comeback attempts? Besides Doom 2099, I mean. :cool:

I swear, the way Cryptic handles City of Superfolks looks awkward and clueless, but for all we know their gameplan could be Machiavellian as hell. :D
Well, it's really sucky if we will be playing City of Punchingbags come I7 when heroes will start REALLY ripping us up with their epics.

[Jade_Dragon]

I take this to mean that the patron powers are weaker than the epics

No, I think what it means is that while there are a larger selection of Epics, and they are more "themed", Patron Powers are more varied, and unrelated to a particular use.

It could actually be that all ATs get the same Patron Powers, although I don't know how that could be balanced. It would probably be weaker than Epics as you suggested, though, as there would likely have to be one power designed for squishies, one for meleers with no ranged attacks, and so on, while the Epics give you four choices tailored to your weaknesses.

Then again, if you consider that villain ATs are less specialized and have fewer weaknesses than hero ATs, it's possible that the Epics "tuned" to a particular AT aren't necessary.

Until I see them, though, I will assume there is one set per AT per villain patron. So the limitation will simply be number, you get 4 (or is it 5?) Sets to choose from and no more or less. I'm guessing THAT is what is meant by the original comment about it being "tough to balance".

[Darknesse]

It has powers flavored towards the patron you chose, and not toward any particular special effect. This makes it a bear to balance in PvP, since heroes will have access to epic pools, and villains do (not)

That scares me. If it were powerful on the Villain side, they would say that it makes a bear to balance because of the lack of AT based limitations or something to that effect.

[Jade_Dragon]

It has powers flavored towards the patron you chose, and not toward any particular special effect. This makes it a bear to balance in PvP, since heroes will have access to epic pools, and villains do (not)
That scares me. If it were powerful on the Villain side, they would say that it makes a bear to balance because of the lack of AT based limitations or something to that effect.

Yes, but if you take that quote as a whole, it seems as if he is saying that the Epics are hard to balance BECAUSE the villain ones are tailored to a patron, and the hero ones to a specific special effect. So there could be any number of reasons why that would be imbalanced, from individual powers (like Focused Accuracy) to flexibility of choices. (If a villain pool has for instance ranged attacks, defenses, buffs and controls all in the same set)

Until I get more information, I'm not going to assume the hero Epics are just overall more powerful than the villains. It could be "hard to balance" if it's the other way around. Or it could be hard to balance if individual powers are overpowered.

[The Mystic]

I think (at least I hope) that they're trying to say that Patron Powers will be similar to Epic powers, except designed around the different Patrons instead of a particular effect.

Meaning that each archetype has the option of 4 powersets (unless Recluse has one, making 5)

And I would have to THINK that those sets would be unique for the archetype. It would be unbalanced if, for example, there was only 1 set for Black Scorpion and that set offered a dmg resistance power. Therefore, a Brute could obtain more resistance than normal. Tankers' sets don't include a resistance power because of this and it would be unbalanced if Brutes could.

[MaligneFamily]

I'm expecting Ghost Widow's to be a psi set.

[Jade_Dragon]

And I would have to THINK that those sets would be unique for the archetype. It would be unbalanced if, for example, there was only 1 set for Black Scorpion and that set offered a dmg resistance power. Therefore, a Brute could obtain more resistance than normal. Tankers' sets don't include a resistance power because of this and it would be unbalanced if Brutes could.


Exactly. That's what *I'm* afraid of.

It seems like a dumb idea, though. Which is why I feel foolish for even thinking of it. But, am I dumber than the devs? That is the question. :D

[Darknesse]

Brutes could get some additional resistance and not be overpowered. The thing you need to worry about is Stalkers getting some resistance of note. Give a /Regen stalker some solid damage res and you are asking for trouble.

[UnSub]

I take this to mean that the patron powers are weaker than the epics


I take it to mean that they are different. Within each Hero AT, you have a range of epic power pools to choose from. For Villain ATs, any AT can pick a patron and get access to their powers. This may mean that the more melee ATs can get access to ranged attacks or the squishier ATs may get access to defensive powers. This will likely see villains having to choose between increasing their strengths or decreasing their weaknesses when choosing a patron.

And, having seen the difference between CoH and CoV, I'm willing to bet that the CoV patron powers > CoH epic power pools. Cryptic has shown some tendency to learn from its mistakes / problems.

Also... Positron has done a few interviews now after not doing any for quite a while, if at all. Think he's filling in for Zeb Cook? Or now that CoV is out the door and I7 is being polished that he's got some time to chat?

[Meltman]

Probably more the latter.

[Morcalivan7]

Because it takes hours to answer a few questions.

[Meltman]

Would you want to do it when you're off the clock?

[Yin]

That's what I was wondering.

Patrons sound cool, but they aren't like Epics where you have a broader selection that caters to the characters other powers and fits a theme. These all sound as if you just get 4 options no matter what AT you are, and are all the same, which I guess is alright if they're planning on taking CoV to another level where villains actually take sides, etc. Dunno. We'll have to wait and see.

[UnSub]

Because it takes hours to answer a few questions.

Well, I've got a set of questions in through official channels and it's taken 2 weeks and counting. I received confirmation the other day that someone from Cryptic had a least looked at the questions.

Meltman - if I worked at Cryptic, I wouldn't tell you guys anything on or off the clock :-)