Women...

[Sorah]

(I am going to try and stay relatively calm here, blame Meltman for directing me to some old posts that totally got me peeved and hopped up on this subject! *points at Meltman*)

Now, yes, the title of this thread is a direct attack on women...and yes, I am a woman!

I...-hate-...women O_O And no, I love Lady Grae, Radical Dreamer, etc. But I like to think we are of the same mind on certain levels.

The women I hate are those that are arguing for equal rights but cower when it is their time to step up to the plate.

Equality is across the board - not just "well I want to be paid the same but get this special prilivege". It doesn't work that way, or at least SHOULDN'T work that way. All this politically correct crap, that I feel was brought upon by women, burns me up on the inside.

I have mainly male friends in real life, and the females that ARE my friends are usually of the same mind set or butch. Yeah, I am gamer girl and so interests vary, blah blah blah. But I was brough INTO the gamer world because of my male friends and because I fit in with them so well (BECAUSE OF MY TRUE BELIEF IN EQUALITY!).

To me, when a woman says she wants equality, that means she gets the whole and ALL of the BAGGAGE that comes with said treatment. Meaning, you hear the dirty jokes, you laugh as the guys blame things on PMS, you deal (and possibly ENJOY!) the smut, porn, and things of that material because hey, you want equality, you want to be "one of the guys" - because that is what is boils down to!

Now, the question may be asked - what about the reverse? Why can't GUYS come to OUR level? Why would they WANT TO?! Come on, I'm not the FIRST person to ADMIT that the social life of a woman is far more stressful than that of a man, and it is a facet to all the things they do! I won't get into the nitty gritty details of it, but I've LIVED in said social circles, I KNOW what happens, it SUCKS and HURTS and is POINTLESS and VISCIOUS and HORRIBLE and just a waste of time in the end! Men simply don't care! It is one of the many reasons that I choose to surround myself with male friends because they aren't LIKE that. Not that they are inCAPABABLE of doing it, but because they just don't care enough to even attempt at it!

I am not saying men are superior, I am not saying women are superior. I am saying that the equality demanded by women is a joke because it is not equality they want. It is special treatment. Now, they do have some good argument points (we get paid 70c to a man's $1, etc). But as I said, the case details need to be fixed and adjusted before any MAN is really going to take them seriously.

"Oh, I want to be paid the same, and deal with the same things! But OMG you cannot say that the word p*nis in my presence, OR I WILL SUE YOU!"

Now, on that note, I am not going to just say it is only women who fester in this world of dreaming, there are men involved as well, but I find it a ridiculous battle considering that their end goal is IMPOSSIBLE - how do you expect to get any type of equality when you want special rights granted? IT DOESN'T HAPPEN! THAT's like...AN OXYMORON!

In the work place, women are denied CEO positions, etc...and the main arguing point is that unless their tubes are tied, they could get pregnant and be gone for a long long time. Which I think, is a legitimate argument. If we are going to be looking at the person who is best suited for a job, then I think one who can at least some what guarantee their presence is...BETTER SUITED! Because all companies come down to 1 thing - money money money money! And it will cost the company MONEY to cater to the woman's needs, etc. Now what can be done about said situation?

Well let's bust out a little socialology here. We all know that holding a family life and a job life is hard pressing on any parent. So even if said company provides for the time that the woman is gone, the parent-mode starts to kick in. And if you really want to have that job - then don't have kids, tie the tubes, cut the line, etc. Or - have a stay at home dad (which are becoming more common now a days, totally cool :) ) When it all comes down to it - realitistically speaking, to have quality of both job and family life, it is near impossible for the average Jane. It is simply life, and the way the world works. So you either 1) be a mother 2) be a CEO or 3) be a half-@ssed mother AND a half-@ssed CEO. And this is not to down on those who ARE able to accomplish both over the mediocre level, kudos to them, but when you really sit down to analyze yourself, you know you are lacking the attention in one or the other. I mean...come on, latch-key kids? *nods sagely*

I think that women need to sit down and really think, "What is it that I want?" If the answer is equality - then get ready to swallow the pill.
If the answer is a better job - then get ready to swallow the pill.
If the answer is to be a mother - then get ready to swallow the pill.

HOW do they expect to get something for nothing? There is going to be some pill swallowing in any course of action, but they refuse to see that, and expect (as many Americans do today) to get their answers HANDED to them.

SO ALL IN ALL?!?!?!?! THIS ALL ROOTS DOWN TO LAZINESS?!?!?!?! AND THE DEPARTURE OF THE AMERICAN WAY OF SACRAFICE!?!?!

*takes a breath* I feel much better now...

[Lady Grae]

Girl....you Rock! Hear, Hear!!! I have found my soul mate...well at least my Soul Sister! you are so right on...and its so true...people need to really think about what they say before they 'preach' you know? Its like do you want or do you not want it?? How can you be trully equal if you want special treatment because you are a woman or whatever...I have 10 more years on you and I can say that you are right, in my opinion, in what you believe and very smart for just figuring it out in 19.

I liked ur CEO reference best...this is a perfect example...job description says: high stress job, long hours, heavy work load, no time off except maybe one week a year if lucky...okay..best person for this job?? woman with no kids, not gonna have kids...(actually this is best person in a perfect world, because a woman may work harder to prove themselves - however we dont live in a perfect world according to Walgreens so......) in reality the perfect person would be a man with a wife...cause she can take care of any home things that come along...so he can put in 103% into this position...

okay my two cents...*smiles and bows* hope u enjoy by fraction of a Sorah rant... :) *group hug and collective groping*

[Bari Jon]

Wow, do either of you really know the job of a CEO? Oh, that's right, of course you haven't because sexist, egotistical men won't let you into a job like that! :P

[Sorah]

Wow, do either of you really know the job of a CEO? Oh, that's right, of course you haven't because sexist, egotistical men won't let you into a job like that! :P

I don't blame men for that fact, and some women are CEOs, and actually yes I do know the ins and outs of what a CEO does, because my step father is the CEO of a military-contracting company, and let me tell you - he gets 3 hours of sleep, leaves to go to work, at 6am, doesn't come home till 9pm (if lucky), eats less than quality food while at work, has to take care of the other branches of his offices' responsibilities because he is good at what he does, and his hair, which used to be jet black, is now salt and pepper, in fact, starting turning that way when he was in his early 30s because of it.

Could a -good- mother do that? No. Could a -good- father do that? No. I love the man, with all my heart, and I know what he does, but has it hurt the family life? Yes. But do we still function? Yes. And he wouldn't have that job if he didn't put 110% into it.

EDIT: And I never said that men were sexist or egotistical. Unless you were joking, I am honestly wondering if you read my rant, cause I was b*tching about women...not men...-_O

[Sorah]

I just came up with a perfect solution to fixing all the womens' problems.

Biological engineer it so that all men have the ability to become pregnant *nods*

[The Widowed]

Wow, do either of you really know the job of a CEO? Oh, that's right, of course you haven't because sexist, egotistical men won't let you into a job like that! :P
Snark, snark, snark. Shouldn't you be defending the good names of radical Muslim terrorists somewhere (http://www.cohguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4872&page=3)? :rolleyes:

I just came up with a perfect solution to fixing all the womens' problems.

Biological engineer it so that all men have the ability to become pregnant *nods*
How would they deliver the baby? More importantly, which orifice would get the job? :think:

[Sorah]

Snark, snark, snark. Shouldn't you be defending the good names of radical Muslim terrorists somewhere (http://www.cohguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4872&page=3)? :rolleyes:


How would they deliver the baby? More importantly, which orifice would get the job? :think:

I don't know the ins and outs of THAT hehehe, it was a suggestion ROFL

[Lady Grae]

Well dont know anyone who is a CEO except the guy that holds the position at my job...I can tell you its stressful...Im sure its rough...and I can tell you as a woman who is a wife, a mother and a career woman...that is freakin hard enough geez, then u take on an entire company to boot, one should not take presedence(sp) over the other its not fair to either...so...and I NEVER said anything about a man being egotistical either...*scratches head* or sexist...hrmmm?!? but no fighting, this was not my intention, just agreeing and adding two cents for what its worth... *hugs Bari Jon*

[Joe Schmoe]

What was that woman's name, that recently dressed/acted like a man, and joined a bowling league? Wrote a book about it.

She now prefers hanging with men, and still chills with them after she revealed she's a woman. :lol:

[Lady Grae]

Wow, do either of you really know the job of a CEO? Oh, that's right, of course you haven't because sexist, egotistical men won't let you into a job like that! :P

oh, oh...just to add...if we are talking about job placement for a sec *I know its off topic Sorah...but hold on* It works both ways...I work for a certain company and I can tell you that I know first hand that a job was offered, a man applied (very qualified), a woman (less qualified) was given the job...why...well they want a woman in this position for the 'look' this particular job works directly with men (lets call them car salesmen) and the 'boss' realizes that they will be much happier and cooperative to work with some cute little chic then some dude...so which way is that...I would catagorize that as being sexist and egotisitical...but it works...same argument! um hello the oldest profession in the world proves that 'sex sales'

[The Widowed]

What was that woman's name, that recently dressed/acted like a man, and joined a bowling league? Wrote a book about it.

She now prefers hanging with men, and still chills with them after she revealed she's a woman. :lol:
That was your mother, Joe.

Zing!

Sorry. All of these other Gurus are starting to rub off on me....

And it does seem like most servers and cashiers are attractive women (with some attractive men thrown in here and there; Ugliness seems to be the great opportunity limiter, as always), while the males and the unattractive females are often relegated to the stockroom, the grill or some other out-of-the-public-eye position. I think we can only blame human nature for that, alas.

[Dr Jack Wolfe]

First of all, men are completely capable of, in theory, of bringing a baby to term. Some psycho sciencetist did the math. Plenty of room, redirect some intestenal stuff and bang. Baby incubator.

Women will get it, there seems to be this myth the men have had it all amoung 20/21st century feminist. With rising cancer rates, record stokes and heart disease women are learning the price paid by all those ALPHA males for past million years. Welcome, make a choice, and enjoy consequences. Seems to me we should just load half the work on women and all work half as hard. :)

I have faith in the younger generations. My generation was taught that women and men were equal, although not with a lot of enthusiasm. That led to a lot of smart, sexy, slutty and proud broads that we all love. The generation behind us was taught everything we were, plus had pounded in there heads by the media. We now have your generation Sorah, open, smart, sexy, raised 95% like boys. Soon all those little difference ain't gonna matter, sex, race, sexual preferance and attitudes will just be accepted. Then we take over BAHAHAHAH.

From here out its an open game for everyone, and as libertarian I'm all for it, I really think were seeing last conflicts between the socally invasive cultures and the free, yet conservitive ones.

[Meltman]

That was your mother, Joe.

Zing!

Sorry. All of these other Gurus are starting to rub off on me....

And it does seem like most servers and cashiers are attractive women (with some attractive men thrown in here and there; Ugliness seems to be the great opportunity limiter, as always), while the males and the unattractive females are often relegated to the stockroom, the grill or some other out-of-the-public-eye position. I think we can only blame human nature for that, alas.

Apparently you don't eat and shop around here then...

...


(I am going to try and stay relatively calm here, blame Meltman for directing me to some old posts that totally got me peeved and hopped up on this subject! *points at Meltman*)

And I agree with what you said Sorah, but really, it's rude to point.

What was that woman's name, that recently dressed/acted like a man, and joined a bowling league? Wrote a book about it.

She now prefers hanging with men, and still chills with them after she revealed she's a woman. :lol:

And Joe, Norah Vincent is the woman you were thinking of. Self-Made Man (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670034665/qid=1139684438/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-0324265-3559855?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) is the book. (She was on Conan.)

[The Widowed]

And as libertarian I'm all for it.


I'm Green Party. Is it okay for me to be all for it too? :)

[Dr Jack Wolfe]

I'm Green Party. Is it okay for me to be all for it too? :)

Why would I care? to each their own. :naughty:

[The Widowed]

Why would I care? to each their own. :naughty:
Cool! Is it okay if we create our own Devouring-Earthlike shock troops to enforce the Green Party's agenda while we're at it? :)

[Masked Revenger]

To me, when a woman says she wants equality, that means she gets the whole and ALL of the BAGGAGE that comes with said treatment. Meaning, you hear the dirty jokes, you laugh as the guys blame things on PMS, you deal (and possibly ENJOY!) the smut, porn, and things of that material because hey, you want equality, you want to be "one of the guys" - because that is what is boils down to!


I have to say, I disagree with this statement. That stuff is not about equality as it is common courtisy. As a man, I don't want to hear that stuff. Partially because it's sterotypical, and I am getting really tired of the "dumb neanderthal" sterotype this country has of men, but also because it's crass and rude and I don't want to hear it in a public setting.

Does that mean I never say tat kid f stuff, or share it with other men? Of course not. I do with my friends. But, I've hung out with these people (some are women) long enough to know what they enjoy and what they don't.

Equality does not mean same. I just wanted to point that out.

Chris

[Meltman]

EDIT: removing that, because I just noticed the above post looks alot like kindle and I'd rather not be the match.

[Joe Schmoe]

Thanks Melty, think I saw her on Colbert Report. And the news.

[Meltman]

You're welcome. You're just lucky I happened to have my break at work while that was on TV (as that's the only place I actually watch TV anymore).

[Sorah]

I have to say, I disagree with this statement. That stuff is not about equality as it is common courtisy. As a man, I don't want to hear that stuff. Partially because it's sterotypical, and I am getting really tired of the "dumb neanderthal" sterotype this country has of men, but also because it's crass and rude and I don't want to hear it in a public setting.

Does that mean I never say tat kid f stuff, or share it with other men? Of course not. I do with my friends. But, I've hung out with these people (some are women) long enough to know what they enjoy and what they don't.

Equality does not mean same. I just wanted to point that out.

Chris

e·qual·i·ty Audio pronunciation of "equality" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-kwl-t)
n. pl. e·qual·i·ties

1. The state or quality of being equal.
2. Mathematics. A statement, usually an equation, that one thing equals another.

Main Entry: equal·i·ty
Function: noun
: the quality or state of being equal: as a : sameness or equivalence in number, quantity, or measure b : likeness or sameness in quality, power, status, or degree

I am not flaming - but I am curious as to what you mean, by it not meaning the same?

And on that note - I wasn't talking about politically correctness in direct, I was speaking about the hypocrasy (sp) of women.

And frankly, I am tired of being politically correct all the time. Yes yes yes, there is a "time and place" for everything, ie. you don't go humping someone's leg in church. But really - I don't get all pissed off if someone calls me an asian, when in fact I am eastern oriental. I know people that DO and THAT pisses me off. Granted, call me a NORTH Korean, and I will just think you are complete dumbass - but that is neither here nor there.

I think that to a certain degree, being politically correct is a good thing, but really, in this day and age, it has molested the line and dominated it, everything has to be dissected for the "true" meaning, when way back when, you used to be able to say what you wanted and exactly HOW you wanted. Now, that isn't to say that everything people said way back when was truthful, and that there wasn't a certain form of political correctness then either...but in all honesty, the intelligence of the nation as a whole as dropped, that is why many of the "inner" meanings of shows, books, music, etc is SPELLED out for the general public. Which brings me to my final point of my original rant - LAZY.

Everyone's turning into lazy butts, not wanting to think for themselves, and just expecting everything to be handed to them. *shrug*

[Bari Jon]

And I never said that men were sexist or egotistical. Unless you were joking, I am honestly wondering if you read my rant, cause I was b*tching about women...not men...-_O

No, I read your rant, I was just flabbergasted by what you had said. It was the only thing I could think of to say at the moment actually... maybe I should think about my posts before I post them... NAH!

Snark, snark, snark. Shouldn't you be defending the good names of radical Muslim terrorists somewhere (http://www.cohguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4872&page=3)? :rolleyes:

I think there's enough of my opinion to go around for everyone! Shouldn't you be over harassing our resident blowhard, Darknesse:P

but no fighting, this was not my intention, just agreeing and adding two cents for what its worth... *hugs Bari Jon*

I promise, no fighting... I wouldn't want you to go back to the leader of one of my character's SG and tell him to sack me! :D

I have to say, I disagree with this statement. That stuff is not about equality as it is common courtisy. As a man, I don't want to hear that stuff. Partially because it's sterotypical, and I am getting really tired of the "dumb neanderthal" sterotype this country has of men, but also because it's crass and rude and I don't want to hear it in a public setting.

Does that mean I never say tat kid f stuff, or share it with other men? Of course not. I do with my friends. But, I've hung out with these people (some are women) long enough to know what they enjoy and what they don't.

Equality does not mean same. I just wanted to point that out.

Chris

Chris sums up pretty well my views on your post... I don't think it is ever appropriate for gutter talk in a professional office. I have been in offices dominated by men and by women, and actually the female lead offices were much worse with being crass and rude. In both spots it is not only inappropriate, it is unprofessional and demeaning to all who have to listen to it. Leave the catcalls and crudeness on the construction site! :D

About the CEO and being pregnant... I don't think these two things must be exclusive of each other... there are ways to manage a business that don't require the CEO to be onsite 21 hours a day... a little delegation of authority is necessary ... I would say that most likely the examples of CEO's given in this thread are the 'typical' CEO, but I daresay, may not be the most successful or prudent. (no direct attack intended there)

[Dr Jack Wolfe]

Cool! Is it okay if we create our own Devouring-Earthlike shock troops to enforce the Green Party's agenda while we're at it? :)
Nope, the second you impinge upon the rights of others, death from above with our massive Wolfetec Untested Space Sheld Yogurt Beams.

Thats right WUSSY B :eyebrow:

[Masked Revenger]

(I preface this by apologizing for my bad spelling)

What I mean by equal does not mean the same is this. Women are, simply put, not men. They never were and they never will be. Its simple biology.

You know what? I'm giving up on this tanget for a moment, because I just hought of a better way to express my opinion.

Let me instead define what I mean when I refer to the equality of men and women. Believe me, I totally believe in the equality of men and women.

By equal, I mean that a woman should have the same chances at a job that a man does, regardless of maratial status or desire to have a baby in the near future. I think that a woman should get paid the same amount for the same job. I think that women should be allowed to serve in front line combat, if that's what they want. In short, I think that a woman should have all the same opportunities in this world that a man does. Same goes for other minorities. Blacks/native americans/non-Christians, etc., should all get the same opportunities as a white male.

I do NOT think that in order to get these things they need to stop being women, however. I think that a woman is quite capable of being a hard-nosed CEO of a multi-billion corporation and not be a total bitch. I think she can do it and still dress feminantly. I think she can do it and have flowers on her desk, or any number of sterotyically "women" things.

I think that a woman should't HAVE to put up with men being assholes or sexist just to be equal. If you don't mind with men acting that way, then that's cool. But just because a woman doesn't like it when men act like that does not make her a hippocrate. It makes her a PERSON with certain social standards she like to have no matter what sex her friends and co-workers are. And I think that as an equil, she should get that respect.

Just my thoughts. YMMV.

Chris

[Dr Jack Wolfe]

I"m with you up to front line combat. In that case I want segrated tank crews. Last thing I need is a pad floating in the piss bottle or the **** helmet. :) While that might be a little to practical example, lets look at how men react to danger poised to woman, there were studies that showed more male casualties occur, becaues the, idiot, men try and protect the women. I dont' know if we've knocked the modern woman far enough off her pedistal to serve in a fox hole with her. Jets okay, copters ok, segragated tanks ok.


Basically your asking for a everything blind society Melty, we're getting closer, but I don't think we are there yet. Your right in a lot a ways though, I know I dont' feel a lot better knowing that the Fire Department has different requirements for females. One of those being the fireman's carry for a man means that, carry a full sized man out of building . For a women its drag a full sized man (as his head hits every stair on the way out). Several one man lifts in the military and 2 person lifts for females. Army fitness standards are different. None of that should be true, if you can't lift the 60lb cannon shell alone, then you can't do the job. Someday, PC will die down, people will be comfortable enough to realize who they are and there limitations, and the right jobs will be filled by the right people. That means a woman fireperson, or infranty person who can do everything the male next to her did and no one will be in a postion to bitch about anything

Yep gonna happen when the cows fly, and the dolphins return to the land.

[Masked Revenger]

uh... pssst... I'm not Meltman. ;)

Chris

[Dr Jack Wolfe]

uh... pssst... I'm not Meltman. ;)

Chris
DOH :yoy: I dont' know why assocate that orange with him but I do. I knew that and I'm not :sarcasm:

[Sorah]

(I preface this by apologizing for my bad spelling)

What I mean by equal does not mean the same is this. Women are, simply put, not men. They never were and they never will be. Its simple biology.

You know what? I'm giving up on this tanget for a moment, because I just hought of a better way to express my opinion.

Let me instead define what I mean when I refer to the equality of men and women. Believe me, I totally believe in the equality of men and women.

By equal, I mean that a woman should have the same chances at a job that a man does, regardless of maratial status or desire to have a baby in the near future. I think that a woman should get paid the same amount for the same job. I think that women should be allowed to serve in front line combat, if that's what they want. In short, I think that a woman should have all the same opportunities in this world that a man does. Same goes for other minorities. Blacks/native americans/non-Christians, etc., should all get the same opportunities as a white male.

I do NOT think that in order to get these things they need to stop being women, however. I think that a woman is quite capable of being a hard-nosed CEO of a multi-billion corporation and not be a total bitch. I think she can do it and still dress feminantly. I think she can do it and have flowers on her desk, or any number of sterotyically "women" things.

I think that a woman should't HAVE to put up with men being assholes or sexist just to be equal. If you don't mind with men acting that way, then that's cool. But just because a woman doesn't like it when men act like that does not make her a hippocrate. It makes her a PERSON with certain social standards she like to have no matter what sex her friends and co-workers are. And I think that as an equil, she should get that respect.

Just my thoughts. YMMV.

Chris

Well, that's all fine and dandy, and in the perfect world I hope that happens. But let -me- be a total bitch and say a couple of things :D

1) This was a rant, not a debate
2) You are welcome to your opinions and I am welcome to mine
3) But if you are going to bust out with office politics, don't you think you should brush up on yours? I mean really, asking for a favor from someone and then systematically, and knowingly, irritating said individual isn' the best way to get what you want. *just my thoughts*
4) I was complaining about women and their hypocrasy...again...you completely missed the point of my rant.
5) I can't believe I am the chick in this argument
6) there are reasons why women do not serve on the front lines, and it comes down to biology - we make babies, you do not, humans want babies, so we don't die. yeah there are more details in there that I can point out, but I'm hungry and want to go eat.
7) companies need money, as I said before, and women with babies = losing money = not the best investment = business.
8) considering that I WAS just ranting, and I don't want this to be turned into a flamefest, I am going to be asking ot get this thread locked, cause...this is becoming more of a headache than a pain reliever, as I was hoping it to be

EDIT: 9) and the business reference was an example, not the corner stone to what I was saying...*obligatory insert about boobs, crotches, and every other offensive thing she can think of, just for the hell of it*

[Masked Revenger]

1) I wasn't trying to start a debate, I was simply saying I disagreed with one part of your rant. You asked me to claify, so I did.
2) Absolutly! :D
3) True, but doesn't that go the other way around? I mean, if someone asks you for a favor isn't it polite to not piss them off too?
4) I didn't, I just disagreed with that particular argument in your rant
5) I'm not sure what that means
6) I'm not disagreeing with this arguemnt, but I feel that if a woman wants to fight on the font lines, she should have that opportunity.
7) I understand that, I just think that in the long run, it's poor business practices. As I said before, though, YMMV
8) Agan, I wasn't trying to start a debate. For the most part, I agreed with your rant. I just had a problem with that one arguement. However, if you feel the need to have this thread locked, by all means. It's your thread.
9) Sorah, understand, I like you, and have nothing against you. Or against crotches, boobs, or the EZ Dark Corner or anything else you mentioned. I simply have a difference of opinion than you do on one point of your rant. That's all. Really. *Drags Sorah off to the EZ Dark Corner and tickles her in obscene places* :P

Chris

[Kinetix]

A huge part of our country is out lack of balance. We NEED a balance. We need family AND business or our kids are going to end up like even more ****. We need parents to rolemodel.

We also need these women to be working, kids need freedom and women working is a very good first step in true equality like you speak of.

[Larke]

ok, so AS Lady Grae said

"and I can tell you as a woman who is a wife, a mother and a career woman...that is freakin hard enough geez"

That's where the problem lies in a CEO being a woman, its expected that she's suppose to be more in control at home than a man is, like she's suppose to clean up she's suppose to make dinner and all that, now there would be nothing wrong if the woman could have the kid and her husband could take care of it, just like if the CEO was a man, his wife has a kid she's takes care of it, whatever.

but big reason I don't have many chick friends, they're all too sensitive, sheesh I even hurt GUYS feelings.

[Sebastian Kain]

The Rant has been given, and it is no longer up for debate.

Closed.

-SK

Note: Feel like debating go debate it in the debate part of the forums.