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Valcarde
11-19-2005, 05:20 AM
Before I go into the matter at hand, I feel I need to explain something concerning Canada, for the American readers ont he board who may not be privey to our 'language war'.

In Canada, there are two official languages, English (primarily) and French (Secondarily). In Quebec, the major french province, it is the opposite: French is the primary language, and English the one they are trying to abolish. There are laws in Quebec, and I admit I don't know every single specific, but the laws are: French first on any signage, English must be smaller print then anything french on the sign, and heaven forbid if you have a sign that is only in English. This effects even the government signs. Whereas, in Ontario (the primarily english province right across the St.Lawrence), as far as I know, there is no such laws: If a sign is in French, oh well. English and French can both be on a sign, it doesn't matter which one is bigger then the other.

The recent 'controversy' (a term I use loosely in this case) stems around the University of Ottawa. A bilingual university, it boasts full courses offered in both english -and- french. Ottawa is the Capital City of Canada, so it's expected to be bilingual, compared to Toronto, which is a primarily English (and chinese!) city. Recently, there was a job fair in Toronto, an -english- job fair. The Univeristy had some of its staff there to offer information about the University to the people there. A memo was passed around the staff: Stating that the staff should speak primarily english at the -english- job fair, speaking french if they are addressed in french by people looking for information, of course. The reasoning being, people who speak only english and no french (which the university can handle: Remember, it offers full courses in both english and french) may be apprehensive to attend the University if it seems they -have- to know french to succeed there. Understandable, yes?

The exact wording of the memo, as reported byt he local newspaper 'The Metro': "Also, be sure to speak English at all times. This is an English Fair. We will meet a couple of French students throughout the weekend (and don't hesitate to addres them in Frnech) but we do not want to scare those English students (who probably already think that they need to be billingual to attend our University)."

Political pundits in Quebec, most notably a french columnist named Denis Gratton who writes for a french-language newspaper called 'Le Droit' ( 'The Right') pounced on this. "Is that the way they promote a billingual University?" he wrote. "By hiding the fact that is it ... billingual? By hiding the fact that French-speaking students are also welcome: Or are they still?"

Cool your jets, Monsieur Gratton. Let's try circulating a memo the next time the University attends a French job fair in Quebec City. "Also, be sure to speak French at all times. This is a French fair. We will meet a couple of English students throughout the weekend (and don't hesitate to address them in English), but we do not want to scare those French students (who porbably already thing they need to be billingual to attend out University."

The problem: The University would be -lauded- for that. Not a single english person I know of would be offended by this in the least, but the Quebecois who are terrified of losing their heritage and their language are offended that staff are asked to speak ENGLISH at an ENGLISH job fair? Does anyone else smell the hypocrasy in the air?

- Alexander Dupuis, one pissed off Billingual person who REALLY hates double-standards.

Heather
11-19-2005, 05:33 AM
well... I mean come on you do live in Canada eh?

Poison
11-19-2005, 09:13 AM
I still love Canada. The English part more than the French though. :shinner:

ChairLegOfTruth
11-19-2005, 10:25 AM
Flash forward to the future...
--TDF 1, Television For France with the news headlines.Within the last few minutes the united nations war council has voted to lift sanctions upon France following... <news anchor sobs> ...Excuse me. This governments conditional surrender six weeks ago in what the BBC have called "The War of Verbals". France's condition that fremch remain the language of government and administration was also surrendered today, in return for technical and financial aid.
Sorry to say it looks like it's going to be an anglophone world.

TOTAL ECLIPSE
11-19-2005, 10:42 AM
im canadian and i find most Quebec residents to be uptight about the whole language ive had a woman freak out at me for speaking in english she thought i should speak french if i was in Quebec "your canadian you should speak french automatically" she said. Im not bilingual and i dont intend to learn french just because it makes old french ladies freakout

8 Ball
11-19-2005, 11:02 AM
I'll admit the Quebecois do have some very valid reasons to be scared for their culture, their death rate is higher than their birth rate, they're isolated in a country that speaks primarily english (regardless if we call ourselves Bilingual or not...go to the prairies and tell me how many folk speak French). I just think it's damn well time we let them separate :P.

ChairLegOfTruth
11-19-2005, 12:54 PM
Yeah but you don't preserve a culture through isolation; especially if your population is diminishing. You intergrate; sharing your culture with as many neighbouring cultures as possible.

You open Quebecois restaurants for a start and create as many cultural artefacts as you can. If you isolate a culture then it becomes an ethnic ghetto; if your stifle a language to preserve it, it dies.

The Welsh language is now dying because it's had all the words adopted from other languages removed. Eventually it'll become like Latin; taught because it has to be and spoken only because you can.

Just my tuppence.

Joe Schmoe
11-19-2005, 01:28 PM
Maybe Quebec and Texas can run off together. That would be great!

Charon
11-19-2005, 01:50 PM
You better be kiddin' there, boy, I tell you what. *spit*

Valcarde
11-19-2005, 05:07 PM
I'll admit the Quebecois do have some very valid reasons to be scared for their culture, their death rate is higher than their birth rate, they're isolated in a country that speaks primarily english (regardless if we call ourselves Bilingual or not...go to the prairies and tell me how many folk speak French). I just think it's damn well time we let them separate :P.

Hey, I agree with you on that point. If Quebec wants to seperate, let's let them. The problem is, they would more then likely have to give up the Gatineau area and Montreal: Montreal has a very high english population.

Randomus
11-19-2005, 06:22 PM
The Quebecois treat bilingual Canadians like dirt anyway, if their primary language is English. Every time I go to Quebec and speak in French (which I am good at), I get sneered at. And then they refuse to speak to me in French.

How am I expected to perfect my French if they won't speak to me in French? How do they expect to preserve their language and cultural history if they are utter dicks to everyone who tries to learn it?

I just don't get Quebec.

Vendel
11-20-2005, 09:46 AM
yea I know what ya mean. I went To Southern Cali a little while back and was just speaking english when I got the worst looks. I mean hey how was I supposed to know Everything below LA was "New mexico". Geeze ill go back to Missouri where at least we speak english good.



:shinner:

Malibu Sally
11-20-2005, 11:21 AM
yea I know what ya mean. I went To Southern Cali a little while back and was just speaking english when I got the worst looks. I mean hey how was I supposed to know Everything below LA was "New mexico". Geeze ill go back to Missouri where at least we speak english good.



:shinner:
I want to learn Seminole so I can sneer at all the English AND Spanish speakers in Florida.:P

The Widowed
11-20-2005, 12:08 PM
I'll admit the Quebecois do have some very valid reasons to be scared for their culture, their death rate is higher than their birth rate, they're isolated in a country that speaks primarily english (regardless if we call ourselves Bilingual or not...go to the prairies and tell me how many folk speak French). I just think it's damn well time we let them separate :P.
Well, you could always let Quebec separate by letting them remain Canada while the rest of Canada asks to be annexed to the United States.... ;)

We speak English down here. All kinds of English. Miles upon miles of English. The only catch is you have to go to our overpriced doctors, but that's about it. :D

Graphite
11-20-2005, 02:54 PM
Heh, kinda reminds me of the discussion between English and Spanish here in the States. I'm a proponent of the American Melting Pot, but thats just me.

As for staying on topic, Quebecians are just weird.

Alumette
11-20-2005, 04:01 PM
*sighs, shakes head, and goes back to reading the paper*

coldcut
11-20-2005, 06:38 PM
Maybe Quebec and Texas can run off together. That would be great!

Isn't that how Preacher got started?

Valcarde
11-20-2005, 06:49 PM
Isn't that how Preacher got started?
Such a great series. I'm only missing 1-2 of the books.

The Widowed
11-20-2005, 07:06 PM
*sighs, shakes head, and goes back to reading the paper*
Get back in here!
*grabs and yanks Ally-Lummy back in*

sheld0n
11-21-2005, 04:57 AM
This whole thing is kind of silly. I agree that Denis Gratton was out of line and the university's decision was completely logical. The Quebecois want to preserve their language and they seem confused on how to get around to it.
On one hand, I see students who purposefully refuse to learn English in school, and on the other, I see them use expressions like "C'est chill", or "Check ca".

Now, I can sort of understand why would they be scared about their heritage. As a matter of fact, I myself refused to participate in Russian classes when I was in Poland, because I felt that it was like surrendering to the communist regime (though now I regret it, it would be nice to speak Russian). I guess this is a very similar thing going on here, accepting the Anglophones is a little like reliving the war between Nouvelle France and the Brittish colonies. But that's just a pride thing and it doesn't solve anything.
I think Chair hit the nail on the head when he said that preserving a culture is all about propagating it to others, and not isolation.

Get back in here!
*grabs and yanks Ally-Lummy back in*

I'm certain we all feel like that, but Lummy needs her rest.
These aren't the most relaxing times for her, as I'm sure you know.

Heck, if I could, I'd buy her a Blackberry, so that she'd never have to go offline, but you know, can't be selfish. :p

The Widowed
11-21-2005, 05:44 AM
Did you capitalize "blackberry" by accident or are we talking about something other than the fruit here?

Druid
11-21-2005, 05:55 AM
Blackberries are like handheld pda's or other related things.

Didn't you see the American Dad where Bud and the alien get Dick Cheney's Blackberry and start prank calling various world leaders? Yeesh. =P