Darth Vader vs. Witch-king of Angmar

[WingedAvenger]

There's a hotly debated discussion going on at another forum I read, so I figured I'd bring it here.

Who'd win in a fight: Darth Vader (http://www.blight.com/~scarlett/images/Vader.jpg), or the Witch-king of Angmar (http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/movie/lotr_feature/extrotk_04.jpg)?

[Noble]

Witch-king of Angmar easy. No man can kill him, so Darth is done for no matter what he tries. In a sword fight, the witch-king would still win because Darth Vadar is passed his prime as a fighter, whereas the witch-king is at his pique of power.

[The Widowed]

No man may kill the Witch-King.

But Darth Vader is a cyborg so twisted by the Dark Side of the Force, can he even be considered a man anymore? Or is he something more? Or something less?

And Darth Vader is no more past his prime than Yoda was on Dagobah. And Yoda could lift a spacecraft with his mind. Age and appearance are trifling concerns when the Force is your ally.

Besides, the Witch-King's not parrying any lightsaber with that huge morningstar of his. And his weapon will be destroyed if he even tries. A simple stroke of Darth Vader's unliving hand will leave the Witch-King unarmed and easy prey for the Dark Lord of the Sith.

Darth Vader for the win. :D

[Noble]

I guess some people did not see the extended version of the DVD where the Witch King confronted Gandalf. The Witch King's sword turned into flame as he cast a spell that destroyed Gandalf's staff. The undead King would have killed Gandalf had no Rohan arrived. Don't forget that the Witch King has a lot of powerful magic on his side. The Witch King's weapons aren't just simple metal either, they are imbued with dark magic that could very well withstand the blade of a the lightsaber.

Vador might still be mostly a cyborg, but he is still a man. No matter how man times Vador might put the Witch King down the Witch King would come back time and time again. Eventually even Darth Vador would begin to tire, as he did when fighting Luke in episode 6 right before Darth Vador lost his hand. The Witch King would win. I would say on a power level, magic vs. force, they are probably roughly equal. You can't forget about the Witch King's powerful and terrifying scream that paralyzes and instill fear in all who hear it.

[Randomus]

Vader would kick his ass. All things flow through the force, even the Witch King's piddly 'magics'. No fireball is going to stop a guy who eats laser bolts for breakfast and commands the very primal forces of the universe.

This also depends on which Vader we're talking about. If it's Vader from Episode 3-5, then the Witch King stands no chance. That Vader is not a man, he is a heartless, mindless killing machine. If it's Vader from the end of 6, then he couldn't win, because that Vader is a whining, sissy little punk like his son.

[Akamaz]

Vader for teh winzzorz

cause he's got midichlorians... what's the witch king got? he's a ringwraith. hmm... midichlorians or ghost, midichlorians or ghost... i say midichlorians win, and dead guy dies.


go midichlorians!

[Randomus]

Every time someone says 'Midichlorians' God kills an orphan.

[Poison]

The threads I hated most on the pre-beta forums were the "Hero1 VS Hero2" ones...

Witch-King for teh win!

[Malibu Sally]

Bah! This argument is stupid. Why bother with lackeys? Let's discuss a REALLY important "vs." subject:

Who would win? Sauron or Emperor Palpatine?

[Randomus]

Sauron's just a collection of Freudian imagery depicting intercourse with a woman who has Chlamydia. No contest.

[TroubleWolf]

"Hi, everyone, and welcome to the geekiest thread ever. I'm your host, Trouble Wolfly, here to do the play-by-play on ESPN 8, the Ocho!

"The LotR -- that's Lord of the Rings, for the uninitiated -- crowd came on strong with the "No man can kill the Withc-King" defense. The Star Wars geeks countered masterfully with a strong "Vader is not a man, he's a twisted cyborg held together with the Dark Side of the Force". The LotR crowd struck back like the Empire, though, saying that underneath all that metal and heavy breathing, Vader was in fact still a man, as evidenced at the end of Return of the Jedi, when true emotion shines through his robot facade. The Canadian Star Wars squad struck a telling blow with the old "All things flow through the Force, and Vader is a Master of the Force" argument, but then there was a fumble! It seems one of the Star Wars crowd tried to throw a left-hook with "midichlorians". I have no idea what the poor half-wit was thinking when he tried that, but you can imagine how it went over here today!

"Right now the scoreboard stands in favor of the Dark Lord of the Sith, He Who is Called Vader, but we'll keep you updated, ehre on ESPN 8, the Ocho!"

[Randomus]

Sabotage! I call sabotage on the midichlorians! I want a yellow flag down here right now!

[Noble]

All things flow through the force, heh, guess you haven't read the latest stars wars series called the New Jedi Order. An entire race of beings is completely devoid of the force. CAPOW! Even so though, in the world of Middle Earth are things are bound to magical forces, so magical power and the force battle would just be a big tug of war like Yoda vs. Darth Tauranis(sp?). It would come down to who is the better fighter. Without the force Vader could not kill The Witch King. And regardless of how much metal makes up Vader's atanomy, HE IS STILL A MAN. You cannot take away what a person once was. He is still flesh and bone to some degree, so he could not kill The Witch King. You cannot bend the rules about the force controls everything, because it doesn't. Read The New Jedi order series then come back at me with that one, because you won't be able to :P.

My scenerio:

Vader and the Witch King fight each other with their respective powers, magic vs. the force and it ends in a draw. Vader draws his light saber, the Witch King his blade. Vader's lightsaber cuts the Kings sword in half, then follows through and cuts the King in half. THe King gets back up as though nothing happened, grabs Vader with his hands and brakes him down into little pieces. Game over.

Keep this in mind that if an entire river could not smash the wring wraiths to bits and kill them, then what makes you think a lightsaber could do anything worse? Cleave him to little pieces? The Witch King would just reassemble himself and rip Vader apart.

[Randomus]

The Expanded Star Wars Universe is not official canon. Sorry man.

[The Widowed]

My scenerio:

Vader and the Witch King fight each other with their respective powers, magic vs. the force and it ends in a draw. Vader draws his light saber, the Witch King his blade. Vader's lightsaber cuts the Kings sword in half, then follows through and cuts the King in half. THe King gets back up as though nothing happened, grabs Vader with his hands and brakes him down into little pieces. Game over.

Keep this in mind that if an entire river could not smash the wring wraiths to bits and kill them, then what makes you think a lightsaber could do anything worse? Cleave him to little pieces? The Witch King would just reassemble himself and rip Vader apart.
Remember, though, that the lightsaber is not a mere laser blade. It is an extension of the Force. If one considers that this might make a lightsaber the equivalent of a magic weapon, and that magic kill ringwraiths and, well, just about anything in Tolkien's universe....

[Noble]

The Expanded Star Wars Universe is not official canon. Sorry man.

says who? Its official enough to be on the Starwars website.
This is what they have next to the link that directs you to the expanded universe, "The galaxy far, far away doesn't end with the movies. The adventures continues in books, television and more..." Sounds like official canon to me.

EDIT - also concerning this, I checked all over the official website, even read their privacy terms and all that stuff, and no where does it mention that The Expanded Universe is not official canon. I've also checked all of my books and no where does it state that they are not official canon in any form either. If you can show me where you found that I would yield, if not then I have no idea where you heard that from.

EDIT: Also, magic doesn't kill all in Tolkien's universe. If you read the Silmarillion you find that "singing" is the true power in the creation of Middle Earth. Illuvatar created his lesser gods to worship him and to sing hs praise. Much like Tom Bombadil. I'm not sure if you could consider that magic, per say, but more of the overlying power behind the universe. Maybe like the Force in Star Wars. To some degree the spread of power is much like the idea that some beings are granted greater powers than other people. Much like Jedi having the force.

On the idea of the lightsaber being an extension of the Jedi, I imagine that the Witch King's blade could also be considered an extension of his being. A morgul blade was designed to turn others into wraiths, so I image that The Witch King could manipulate his blade like a lightsaber, as he did to some degree when he conjured power into it to shatter Gandalf's staff.

[Griimace]

Wow. Geek overload here.

But Vader loses, becuase I saw Episode 1 again today, and remembered how much of a queerpack little Annie Skywalker, the young Vader was. I bet the Witch-King wasn't that lame as a kid, so there.


*Hides from Randomus*

[Randomus]

I remember Lucas mentioning it in one of his zillions of interviews. It's authorized fanfiction, but it's still fanfiction. That's like referencing some Cid/Vince FF7 slashfic in an argument about Cid's sexuality.

In the end, of course, there's really no way to know who would win in a fight between these two characters. They're from completely different universes and completely different themes. What it boils down to is which character you like more, as with all of these lame little debates.

[Noble]

Then go away if you think the point is moot and let us have our fun. :P

It is all opinion based, which is reinforced by facts backing each character involved involved. Just like what goes on in these threads http://www.cohguru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10 . Opinions reinforced by facts.

EDIT - I guess in light of that even the debates you take seriously such as the ones mentioned above could be considered lame by others as well. Show a little more consideration to people who are interested in something before throwing it down.

[Randomus]

I'm not seeing where you get offended by my comments. I love both Star Wars and Lord of the Rings, and enjoy a debate as much as the next guy, but even I can understand that arguing about which fictional villain would win in a fight is completely pointless-- as is arguing about anything on the Internet. I thought everyone here realised that?

[Noble]

I can understand that arguing about which fictional villain would win in a fight is completely pointless-- as is arguing about anything on the Internet. I thought everyone here realised that?

Maybe it is pointless, but its still fun to debate about it. Although I don't see why someone who looks down on internet debating would even choose to participate in one unless their purpose was only to ruin what fun those involved were having.

EDIT - to be fair to you Randomus, I took offense because you think the topic is pointless. Which makes sense because the topic is in the Spam Forum, so if you don't like it you don't have to read it, or comment on it. Just let the people who want to play it out do their thing and enjoy it.

[Magna Harrier]

Witch-King. The dark side of the force may be powerful, but it's the big power in a setting with no real competitiors. If the Witch-King can take on the likes of Gandalf and all... sorry, the "not killed by man" thing gives him the edge. And on that note, I must flee, before the geek chi-wave overwhelms me.