So yeah, Infinite Crisis...

[Meltman]

...woah. O_o

(Seemed time for a new thread since it wasn't really a..you know...countdown anymore...)

[Joe Schmoe]

Yeah :)

So according to DC.com, the deaths were, in special highlight text

The Freedom Fighters walked into a Society ambush...and were brutally struck down! Fatalities included Black Condor, Phantom Lady and the Human Bomb!

[Meltman]

Brutal is right, yikes. Especially The Human Bomb...

[Joe Schmoe]

Yeah, that was.. Yeah. But.. I mean, I'm glad the one who did it is finally.. bad. For awhile, he was a good guy, but just the biggest dumbass ever.

[Meltman]

Also, weren't Uncle Sam and Polaris killed too?

[Joe Schmoe]

I thought so, I got my info from here http://www.dccomics.com/features/countdown/

Which updates every Monday on what happened in the Crisis for those who can't keep up with all the comics.

[Impact]

*grumbles about not getting his latest comic fix*

[Seadevil]

To be fair though...

All those heroes were pretty bottom-of-the-barrel material. Black Condor learned to fly by watching condors fly. I wish I was making that up. Human Bomb got his powers by drinking a new form of liquid explosive so the Nazi's couldn't get it. Phantom Lady... Well, she was just lame.

Oh, and Superman got owned by Bats. :chuckle:

[AfterglowNoMore]

Yeah, but the Ray and Damage had potential. Not to mention Uncle Sam is like oe of the oldest of the old school. So even though, they're like 5th tier characters, it'd still be a shame to lose them.

[Seadevil]

Oh, I agree AG. But, DC is only listing PL, Bomb, and Condor as KIA so i'm assuming Sam and the rest are gonna make it.

[AfterglowNoMore]

Yeah, maybe I'll get a new Freedom Fighters book to read out of all of this.

[Meltman]

Well, we know Ray survives, at least for now, seems like he'll be pretty important, too.

[Meltman]

So I picked Infinity Cirsis #1. I haven't read all the other mini's all the way through (I'm about 5 months behind on everything I collect right now, except Invincible), so I'm a little confused. Like WHY isn't Superboy being Superboy?

And after that last pannel... I'm thinking that the plan with this series is to undo what happened in Crisis on Infinate Earths? Bring back the multiple Earths? God I hope not.

Chris

Luthor used a secret codeword to turn Superboy against the Teen Titans...that's why he's apprehensive.

[Joe Schmoe]

And the plot thinkens! Dun dun DUN!

I'll have to reread it again, but if I'm getting this right.. Black Text! Doctor Polaris is dead? Did I read that right? Human Bomb did in fact succeed in taking him out?

[Meltman]

Issue 2's out? Damn, I'll have to get it tomorrow then.

[Xanatos]

Oh, I agree AG. But, DC is only listing PL, Bomb, and Condor as KIA so i'm assuming Sam and the rest are gonna make it.

Not the bomb. Not the human ****ing bomb! :mad:

GRAG!H

[Seadevil]

Not the bomb. Not the human ****ing bomb! :mad:

Somebody set up us the bomb!

Sorry. Had too.

[Meltman]

Ok, so I finally got issue 2....

...Damn. And I thought they dropped a bomb on us last issue...

[Griimace]

I'm looking forward to seeing E2 Superman, and EP Superboy laying some smack down on these whiney, angsty, Earth-1 shulbs.


Seriously though, that's an incredible twist on why E2 Supes is back. Coming back to put a stop to the Grim'n'Gritty heroic mindset is cool, in a continuity standpoint, and it's a nice hat tip to the fans, as well.

[Gold Rush]

:yoy:

Man! Now I am gonna have to hunt up these instead of waiting for the Trade Paperback!

You know how many YEARS I've waited on for an answer of what has been going on with those TWO particular characters in the DC world (well, actually, there are 3)??

Of course, there was the Alex Luthor stuff I missed out on in the Superman comic book.

============================================

Gold Rush

[DOOM2099]

W00T! I have no idea whats going on right now. Heh.

[Griimace]

Dude. You're trade waiting on this? Our generation's Crisis? Are you serious?


:yoy:

Man! Now I am gonna have to hunt up these instead of waiting for the Trade Paperback!

You know how many YEARS I've waited on for an answer of what has been going on with those TWO particular characters in the DC world (well, actually, there are 3)??

Of course, there was the Alex Luthor stuff I missed out on in the Superman comic book.

============================================

Gold Rush

[Magna Harrier]

Gonna have to agree... this is something to keep up with as it happens. While they'll collect the issues of the Crisis series, it'd be a pain to fit in the issues of all the other series as you read.

[Solario]

I'll get it as a trade, if it's any good. I can't handle another EPIC!!!11 Clone Saga/Death of Superman/Identity Crisis/Heroes Reborn at the moment.

[Chain Lightning]

So I have some interesting info from January Wizard magazine. This is from Dan Didio himself, the VP-Executive Editor at DC. I'm not going to bother to 'black out' this info, sorry.

Between issues 5 & 6 of Infinite Crisis, all the DC books jump ahead one year, and a special weekly series, so far tentatively titled 52, will show us what happened in the year following the events of Infinite Crisis. Okay that was told to us last month. Here is the new stuff.

Several books will be cancelled after IC. The list is, Aquaman, Gotham Central, Batgirl, Gotham Knights, Legends of the Dark Knight, (and here come the big ones) JLA, Superman, Flash, & Wonder Woman

Now, the quote from Didio "Some books we wanted to relaunch, and we felt the direction was going to be so radically different from the [current incarnation] that they were deserving of a new #1 in cases of Wonder Woman and The Flash".

Okay now then for those of you who may remember the classic Crisis on Infinite Earths. The Barry Allen Flash was killed off in that series. Marv Wolfman, the writer of CoIE said he didn't want to kill Barry, that DC asked him to do it. Marv Wolfman has said on MANY occasions that he did leave a way to bring back the Barry Allen Flash. In his own words he said, "Don't look for it, you'll never find it, but it's there"

Now then, since the Earth 2 Superman has come back, Issue 2 has shown that Power Girl is not insane and that she is of the old Earth 2, seems to me this is the perfect time for DC to call Marv Wolfman and ask, "How do we bring Barry Allen back?"

[AfterglowNoMore]

I think it's the whole him going into the future thing that Wolfman was referring to, and if so, then it's not really that interesting of a way to go about bringing him back.

[Chain Lightning]

I think it's the whole him going into the future thing that Wolfman was referring to, and if so, then it's not really that interesting of a way to go about bringing him back.

But remember 1) He goes into the future to live with Iris at the end of his own series, issue 350. 2) Barry mentions about the last few weeks of happiness he had with Iris in the future in Crisis on Infinite Earths. So the story already takes place with him living with Iris in the future. In CoIE, Batman mentions that Flash has been missing when Barry appears to him, this is tying to his retiring to the future with Iris.

I don't think Wolfman's 'out' is Barry living in the future. But I could be wrong.

[Meltman]

Wolfman also said that if a fan asked him at a convention and he was in a really good mood, he might tell them. Hmmm, wonder if anybody ever got it out of him. And I think it has more to do with the way he died as far as how he would be brought back. (After all, first rule of comics: No body, no proof) Or, one other thing I thought of. Maybe it's like Lex Luthor. Barry wasn't at the beginning of time when the universe was reset, so maybe he was recreated and just didn't get his Flash powers.

[Gold Rush]

Wolfman also said that if a fan asked him at a convention and he was in a really good mood, he might tell them. Hmmm, wonder if anybody ever got it out of him. And I think it has more to do with the way he died as far as how he would be brought back. (After all, first rule of comics: No body, no proof) Or, one other thing I thought of. Maybe it's like Lex Luthor. Barry wasn't at the beginning of time when the universe was reset, so maybe he was recreated and just didn't get his Flash powers.

Well, if we are gonna bring this up...

You can always try to bribe Wolfman with many drinks at the con bar to get him in the mood. :chuckle:

I wouldn't mind Barry back, I liked him, but for me, he died at the right time and Wally took up the reins well. It was new and it has worked, because Wally has been put through the ringer and has proved himself.

I can see in the recent past DC has attempted to move on to a "new" generation of heroes and has tried to kill off the older ones, more specifically, the Silver Age ones that replaced the Golden Age ones first! Even before there is a hint of any slowdown in the Golden Age Versions, OUT go the Silver Age ones! Most notably, this has been tried on Green Arrow and Green Lantern and mostly, it has been unsuccessful. Sure, there are fans of Kyle and Conner, but it doesn't bring in the long-term readership that DC hopes for. Even when they FORCE things like they did with Kyle (Last Green Lantern out there), most people seem lukewarm at best. With the AMAZING number of Green Lanterns earth has had (wasn't there suppossed to be ONE Green Lantern per sector, you Big-Headed Blue Boobs? And here you have 3-4, and that's NOT counting Alan Scott or even Jade! And they all LIVE on the same Bloody Planet!!), I would have been more comfortable if they focused on John Stewart (although, if I remember correctly, they made him crazy for a bit and then he ran the Mosiac world and now...he's back to normal. I wonder what happened to Mosiac?) or even Guy Gardner (again, they decided to stip him of his Lantern powers and try out 2-3 powersets on him before deciding on his Warrior-alien powers for the longest time.

Actually, I was gonna be sneaky like Wolfman but I'll tell you my theory(s). Time Travel could easily be involved in it. Barry could be in the future now drinking mint julips for all we know. He could also just as easily be on another dimension/surviving pocket universe. My most likely (but not substantiated) is the whole turning into Energy thing. (E=MC2). He could coallesce back into his form if he slows down his molecules enough. Or maybe he'd need something like a Star Trek transporter to help him along the way. In fact, I think it was pointed out that Barry had become "Living Lightning" and was "the" Lightning bolt that gave himself and Wally their powers (and probably Jay Garrick, too. In fact, let's just say he gave ALL the Bloody flashes who have ever encountered Lightning their powers. How's that for an incestious God! Take THAT, ZEUS! I KNEW Barry was repressed but not THAT repressed! :neener: Okay, I am ranting slightly off-field).

If you take Matter=Energy at speed of light jazz, then Barry could come back at any time he feels like, but he is probably having too much fun exploring and given that he can be in any time period, probably knows Wally will do fine and does'nt need him. Of course, if he finally DID come back, the writers would probably need to give him some sort of mental block/amnesia so he would not remember/know everything he witnessed as a lightning bolt.

I *think* that fits in nicely with Wolfman's cryptic, "Don't look, you'll never find it" comment, but I am just speculating. :p

=================================================

Gold Rush

[AfterglowNoMore]

Another thing to consider is, that if everything changes, then the future that Barry escaped to will no longer exist. And in doing so, they will have technically probably negated the saving of Earth-1 with Barry not being there.

[AfterglowNoMore]

So did Crsis 3 Come out this week and I just missed it because it's advertised in like every DC book I picked up.

[Meltman]

According to www.dccomics.com it comes out the 21st.

[Joe Schmoe]

Spoilers for number 3

Interesting. So can anyone tell me all the ones in that tower? Saw Ray, Martian, and Black Adam, but couldn't identify the other two. And who the Society's leader really is relaxes me. Didn't see that coming. Oh, and Bruce's ring destroyed, he better make/get a new one! And the Firestorm thing confused me. What happened there?

[Seadevil]

Highlight-o-riffic!

Another great issue. The tower was a 'Holy ****!' moment for me. Really surprised me, what with it containing THE ANTI-MONITOR'S HEAD! We see the beginnings of the new Blue Beetle. Kind of disappointed it's not another hero taking up the mantle (I had my money on Dick Grayson since he's not going to be Nightwing after all this) Wonder Woman is also appearantly the only Amazon left on Earth. It was cool to see Aquaman fight back against Black Manta and Ocean Master, showing he may have the orange shirt and the clean-shaven look back but he can still kick some ass.

Not sure what the deal is with Firestorm, i'll have to read the latest issue tomorrow to see if it says anything. I liked the quote made by Animal Man "I don't know what animal i'm synching up with... But it shoots lightning out of it's face."

Appearantly, Catwoman will no longer be Catwoman after Crisis either, which makes me think of a question posed in Wizard concerning who would become pregnant after IC. Lo and behold, Catwoman was one of the choices. Hm...

I'm forseeing a big battle between the Spectre and the remaining forces of magic very shortly. That leads me to Dr. Fate. Hector Hall is dead according to the last JSA. Hector and his wife's souls are appearantly in Dream's realm where they won't be able to leave. Nabu now controls the Artifacts of Fate, creating a Dr. Fate identical to the Fate from Kingdom Come. Very interesting stuff. And I doubt we've seen the last of Shazam... Just a hunch.

I hope we get to see more of the Lantern Corps in action. It seems like a big wave of anti-matter in the place where Oa used to be would draw the Guardian's attention.

The Batman/Earth-1 Superman exchange was really well done. You see Batman's aura of 'I don't give a damn what you think' start to crack and he knows he's messed up in concerns to Brother Eye. The fact that in the end his decision came down to weither or not Dick would be better off was cool I thought. Any one else think of the 'Superman Is A Dick' site from Earth-1 Supes reaction Bats' decision?

One last thought: The Spectre is without a host. Ted Kord's staying dead. Hmmm....


Overall, great stuff. Looking forward to the next one.

[Meltman]

I'm so not looking at those. And I'm SO going to the shop on Saturday.

[Seadevil]

Some new spoilers/updates from the new Wizard about the post-IC DCU:

Luthor is going to form his own Justice League after IC made up of all new folks and one 'familiar face'

An entire country will be slaughtered. Always a happy occasion.

A new Batwoman will appear, no word on who yet.

Catwoman IS the one who becomes pregnant.

One of the 'normal' heroes is actually getting powers. My money's on Nightwing.

NEW FREEDOM FIGHTERS BOOK!!!

Batman and Robin will both leave Gotham completely for one year and guess who steps up to guard over Gotham. THE QUESTION! Awww yeah.

Booster Gold becomes an actual A-list hero.

A new Red Tornado debuts.

Black Adam, Booster Gold, Renee Montoya, Enlongated Man, Steel, and the Question are all the main focial points of 52. And one of 'em eats it by the end of the series.

There was more, 52 points total, so I just picked the ones I found most interesting.

[Gold Rush]

Okay...

I have broken down (again) and bought up a "fair" amount of comics (read : ALOT) and overspent on them! Grrr... :mad:

I have bought Inf. Crisis 1-3...the 80 page pre-Crisis lead up. 3 Graphic Novels that tie into it (although with the Rann-Thanagar War, I couldn't find the novel, so I bought issues 2-6). I also bought a smattering of titles of the independent books that tie into the Crisis to get some idea what's going on in personal lives as well as other things. And I bought some un-related Crisis stuff, like the Return of Donna Troy, some more Graphic novels and some Marvel.

I *WILL* comment! Mark the words of the Spectre!

===================================

Gold Rush

[Meltman]

Actually, from all the evidence presented so far, I have to say I think Booster Gold gets actually powers, those being the powers of the first Blue Beetle. (Ted Kord was the 2nd)

[Seadevil]

Actually, in that same Wizard, they mention that the new Blue Beetle will be Mexican-American so that probably disqualifies Booster

[Meltman]

Actually,

Damn, then it's going to be that random kid who picked it up in issue 3. That isn't going to turn out well...

[Meltman]

As for the tower, I don't recognize the one on the left, but the one who's yellow with red polka-dots is Lady Quark. So as I had thought, they're taking one person from every reality that was merged during Crisis on Infinite Earths.

[Gold Rush]

Damn, I hate replying in Black...so much empty space.

So far, my thoughts on your speculations without my overall view of it all just yet.

Yeah, about Blue Beetle, I hated seeing this from a mile off, but from the dialogue and actions that happened in the Countdown Book, It HAD to be someone new. I am a bit upset someone new is going to take th role of Blue Beetle from Ted (since Ted could be considered the MAIN character to his little group of comic characters DC gained the rights to even before Captain Atom).

I sure hope Ted is put to some use, even as the Spectre. I am kinda doubting it.

I actually like Phantom Lady and it's sad to see her go. Can't argue with her costume. And yes, Doctor Polaris is Dead. At least ONE villian got taken out in this "Blood Bath. Good to see a Freedom Fighters book starting up afterwards. It kinda makes me wonder if the whole Earth IS gonna reboot or what not. Comments later.

If you are right about there being no Catwoman, which I am doubting (more comments as to why I doubt later), my money on the new Batwoman is...Catwoman. I just read the collected Graphic Novel called "The Nail" and in that "Elseworld" Catwoman becomes Batwoman. And since you say Catwoman will become pregnant, I can see her marrying/joining forces with Bruce Wayne. Her child will be Selina Wayne (sp), the Earth-2 Huntress. The current Huntress, as a result, should be merged or wiped out.

Doc Death's "Firestorm" comment got me confused, but looking at the issue, I am guessing he doesn't know Firestorm lore. :) That flaming person rising up behind Firestorm...is Firestorm. Or rather, the Professor (I think his civilian name was...Hammond?). The Professor and Ronnie Raymond made up the first Firestorm. At some point, they finally split and Ronnie got control of Firestorm by his lonesome and the Professor got a Firestom body (different looking) as well. The Professor Firestorm was dubbed Earth's Elemental champion/Avatar of Fire (Like Swamp Thing is the Avatar of Plant/Earth), although, he did not stay on Earth. Being a scientist, he got curious and decided to roam space exploring it and marvelling at it. He has come back from time to time; even cured Ronnie of his cancer when he had cancer. He doesn't know of Ronnie's...disappearance (Now, THIS part of Firestorm I am sketchy on, but I am hoping Ronnie is still FULLY alive).

I really cannot see Dick Grayson giving up Nightwing because of certain things I've read in current series, the whole "cartoon" ethos (Nightwing has pretty much become a franchise onto itself), and gut feelings. Again, commentary will follow once I put my thoughts into words.

Wonder Woman...Last Amazon...perhaps for the moment.

"Shoots lightning out of its face" I am not positive, but it sure sounds like one of the electrical beasts that have given Lightning Las, Lord and Lass their powers in the far-flung future of Legion of Super Heroes (although I thought Lightning shot from their horns...)

Well, don't count out Hector Hall yet. It looks like it is a set-up to "protect" them (again, I'll comment later on this). Basically, Lyta was one of the "unshuffled" ones on Earth Two that sorta had a raw deal comparable to Power Girl; Lyta was Wonder Woman's/Steve Trevor's daughter of that Earth. Her origin changed. She's been out of action alot, makig her in actuallity a WORSE casuality than PG (since, it seems, writers didn't know what to do with her). I think something is up here...

I don't think we have seen the last of the Wizard Shazam either, since the ShadowPact seem to be collecting all the rocks from the Rock of Eternity. I have read a passing comment in another book that Sabbac (a Captain Marvel villian) has absorbed ALL SEVEN DEADLY Sins! Not sure what affect this has on the future. Also, there is a strong indication that in the FAR-Furture (again, the Legion of SH), that Captain Marvel/Billy Batson becomes the new Wizard. I sorta doubt it is time yet, but who knows what the writers plan (I plan to take a guess at it and comment later).

Get the Guardian's attention? Heck, unless you missed some panels, that big space rift of "Anti-Matter" HAS the Blue skinned ones attention. They even comment on it. Now, I am pretty sure some GLs will be sent there, but they seem to have their hands full with the Rann-Thanager War for the moment.

I forget what happened to Earth-2's Robin inregards to the question "Is Dick Grayson better off there than here?", but I am pretty sure I remember nothing bad happened, at least Crisis-wise. I remember Grayon-2 a Selina-2 crying in a graveyard (over Bruce's Tombstone?) and wondering what would happen to them. The answer was they would be erased from the new continuium. I mean, at best, they both got incorporated and at worse, they were forgotten and never existed. Sorta a non-issue with this asked question. That's why I am wondering....Robin-2 wasn't that bad off compared to Nightwing...

Batman and Robin leaving Gotham? Well, that actually may fall in line with Grayson not being Nightwing; he may retire/leave Bludhome for a year as well. Seems like Batman is due for a vacation, especially all that has happened recently and maybe Nightwing follows (although, he seems to have lots of things happeneing in theTitans at the moment...)

Booster Gold becomes a main hero. Possibly. He left our time after the Countdown, kissing Fire/Beatrice good-bye. He then returns with a new Skeets and armed with more info. So, to me, he already has his powers back and is at full power. Ripe for A-Listedness. Actually, stepping back from the Countdown story, the way things were set-up with him, it does look like this was planned out to happen.

I also am wondering, who is that guy on the left? I can't quite pin-point him. Now, remember, we have been shown most of the abductions for the most part : Sinestro dragged away Lady Quark, Superboy picked up Martian Manhunter, etc. I can only guess he MAY be a badly colored Uncle Sam (doubtful) or Captain Atom (No one from the Charlton universe yet up there, but this is also doubtful, becase the good Captain is currently in a whole other dimension/universe).

Again, I will post stuff later, but really, too early to comment. More like, post a feeling I have.

=============================================

Gold Rush

[Joe Schmoe]

Response to Gold's post, Outsider spoilers about Sabbac

Sabbac did absorb the Seven Deadly Sins. Then Outsiders came, Katana stabbed him with her sword and absorbed him into it. The seven deadly sins are back out and loose, Envy is showing up in JLA soon

[Seadevil]

On an immature note, anyone else chuckle everytime they see 'Skeets'?

[AfterglowNoMore]

I believe that Earth-2 Huntress was named Helena Wayne, not Selina.

[Chain Lightning]

Batman and Robin will both leave Gotham completely for one year and guess who steps up to guard over Gotham. THE QUESTION! Awww yeah.


I picked up that issue of Wizard also. Where did you read this? I don't remember them actually saying who was guarding Gotham with them gone.

[Seadevil]

I picked up that issue of Wizard also. Where did you read this? I don't remember them actually saying who was guarding Gotham with them gone.

They talk about it either in the 52 points part or the other section where they discuss IC.

[Gold Rush]

I believe that Earth-2 Huntress was named Helena Wayne, not Selina.

See, you are right! I KNEW I got that wrong, but couldn't think of her name right then :D My use of (sp) was really intended as "it sounds like this, but it's spelled entirely different." :chuckle:


Batman and Robin will both leave Gotham completely for one year and guess who steps up to guard over Gotham. THE QUESTION! Awww yeah.

Well, maybe they actually meant it was a QUESTION as to WHOM will take over for Batman??!

Actually, that was a joke, and a lame one at that! :chuckle:


On an immature note, anyone else chuckle everytime they see 'Skeets'?

Well, I know Popeye used to sing a song with the lyrics :
"A-Skeet, A-Skattin, Doodaih, A-Skiddley, A-Didddley, A-Doh!" But I don't think you mean that.....Do you?

========================================

Gold Rush

[Gold Rush]

Oh! Also nice to see Airwave being used again. Wish I could locate the issue/series where they actually draft him on Donna's team.

I admit, he is lame in the power department, but he was fun in a back-story way. Not as lame as others. Actually, with a bit of tinkering, he could become an integral background character in the DCU, maybe even work with Oracle or used by Government or Super powered community, such as JLA.

But, I hear the Vegas odds on him surviving are pretty steep. (Well, at least my odds on him are, but I do hope he survives).

================================================== ====

Gold Rush

[Meltman]

They talk about it either in the 52 points part or the other section where they discuss IC.

It's in the 52 section, because the time away from Gotham takes place during that year. (After the one year skip, the first issue of one of the Batman comics (or the next issue of Crisis) has Batman and Robin coming back and conflicting with the new powers in town)

Also in that section, under the Question's picture, it says "The New Batman".

[Meltman]

Damn, I hate replying in Black...so much empty space.

So far, my thoughts on your speculations without my overall view of it all just yet.

In reply to Gold Rush's comments:
Firestorm was pierced by a sword that Shadow Thief was carrying. He flew off, and was blown up. (Happened in Identity Crisis) As for Robin, he was still Robin (in the SAME costume) only old and fat. Plus he's killed at the very end of Crisis on Infinite Earths.

[Gold Rush]

You don't have to reply in black for those, Melt. But, now you got me paranoid, thinking, "What is someone hasn't read Identity Crisis?"

So, here is some black responses.

Robin-2 killed? And was fat? I *totally* missed that. But you must be right, given the reaction in the comics. And he wore more of a Flash Gordon style of costume (that I thought was neat at the time, but it also appeared in an "End of Batman" album.

True, I know that about Firestorm, but in the new Firestorm run of comics, Ronnie re-appears in the New Firestorm's Brain-psyche for a little while, then he disappears again. So, it seems, he has become part of the power that is Firestorm. It seemed he would fill in a second or third personae for awhile, but I haven't seen him back and I don't regularly read the series. Granted, from all the things I've seen so far, DC is trying to push this new Firestorm to be accepted in DCU continuity. Nothing bad with him, but since I have a personal interest in Ronnie Raymond, I kinda want him to at least get a fair shake.

I am thinking that, perhaps, the professor will absorb what is left of Ronnie and fly off to the stars. Unless DC does something "stupid" and decides there can only be ONE Firestorm and kills him off. This will effectively sever all ties with Ronnie for the immediate future. I am not sure how popular the new Firestorm is now as far as readership, but it seems to be doing alright sales-wise.

On a side note, are you a Detective Chimp fan, Melt?

======================================

Gold Rush

[Chain Lightning]

They talk about it either in the 52 points part or the other section where they discuss IC.

Okay yeah I found it. Went back and reread the issue. There was a lot of good information to absorb in this Wizard.

[Meltman]

You don't have to reply in black for those, Melt. But, now you got me paranoid, thinking, "What is someone hasn't read Identity Crisis?"



[COLOR=Gold]On a side note, are you a Detective Chimp fan, Melt?

======================================

Gold Rush

Maybe I just missinterpreted the way George Perez drew his big muscles, I don't know. To me he kinda looked like those guys with lots of muscles, but a slight beer belly too.

Detective Chimp? No. In truth, I didn't even really read DC comics until I found a good comic shop close by and could get some older graphic novels. I would like to get the Day of Vengeance TPB when I can find it. He seems like an interesting character...plus he's a monkey. Oh, were you asking because of my avatar? That's actually:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/Meltman/monkeysmoke.jpg

[Gold Rush]

Ah, smoking with a blowtorch like some 1950's-1970's on-the-job welder.

That is one smooth monkey. :chuckle:

================================================

Gold Rush

[Gold Rush]

Here's another question I keep forgetting to ask:

Just who is that Doctor Psycho midget on the Society? I've never seen him before. I have this feeling his is a "Carlton Comic" (sp) villian, possibly an old Blue Beetle or Captain Atom one.

==============================================

Gold Rush

(Also, just to answer one DC forum guy who asked "What is the Society?" from afar, which I am sure most of you guys figured out, it is just a re-tooled "Injustice Society of the World", without the extra wordage that makes the name a silly counterpart of the JSA)

[AfterglowNoMore]

(Also, just to answer one DC forum guy who asked "What is the Society?" from afar, which I am sure most of you guys figured out, it is just a re-tooled "Injustice Society of the World", without the extra wordage that makes the name a silly counterpart of the JSA)
Not true. The Injustice Society and the Society are two wholy different entities. Though many of the members may have joined the Society, the Injustice Society has operated outside if the Society on it's own beforehand, and continues to do so currently.

[Seadevil]

True, I know that about Firestorm, but in the new Firestorm run of comics, Ronnie re-appears in the New Firestorm's Brain-psyche for a little while, then he disappears again. So, it seems, he has become part of the power that is Firestorm. It seemed he would fill in a second or third personae for awhile, but I haven't seen him back and I don't regularly read the series.

The current Firestorm still has to merge with someone to become Firestorm, but he can merge with ANYONE. He;s fused with Ronnie, a random hobo, and is now merged with his roommate as he's part of Donna Troy's task force.

[Gold Rush]

Paraphrased:
Injustice Society is not the Society
Okay, noted.


The current Firestorm still has to merge with someone to become Firestorm, but he can merge with ANYONE. He;s fused with Ronnie, a random hobo, and is now merged with his roommate as he's part of Donna Troy's task force.

Yes, I see that. With Ronnie, if I remember correctly, the New Firestorm was able to sorta do it on his own but Ronnie started to suffer a bit. Then the New Firestorm merged with Lorraine (Firehawk) and got to talk to Ronnie in a 3-way convo. Ronnie "disappeared" again after that, again dissolving away. I am kinda interested in how long they will keep this schtick up with having to merge with a second party, since, to me, it seems that since Ronnie finally was able to do it on his own, perhaps the new guy will eventually do so, as part of learning to master his powers. This restriction on having to have 2 bodies can be an interesting story element if it is done right, but it can also be boring if the wrong writer(s) start to write for it.

I am still rooting for Ronnie to get some just treatment, especially since he is "somewhere....out there", so to speak. :)

================================================== =

Gold Rush

[Seadevil]

Concerning IC #3:

The red and white guy in the tower is Breach. He's a relatively new character as far as I know, and he had a 12-issue series run that just ended a month or so ago. How he relates to the Crisis Multiverses, I have no idea.

[Meltman]

It might be because he's tied in with Captain Atom, and nobody from that universe was on the tower.

[Joe Schmoe]

I loved the Day of Vengeance Infinite Crisis Special! Okay, spoilers

Wow. Just wow. New Fate coming up, a Shadowpact SERIES! Spectre now awaits a host finally. And looks like the Society needs Nightshade for the machine? Is she from a different universe then all the ones captured so far?! Loved it, I really liked this comic

[Gold Rush]

Joe :

Yes, Nightshade is from the same universe as Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, and a few others. Her costume has changed many times during her tenure in DC. In fact, in Issue Two, when Superman is explaining to Kara the big History of the First Crisis, after the 4-page Batman card game advertisement, she is among the heroes with Blue Beetle in her old costume.

Which does bring a question, who is that normal-looking guy to the right of Captain Atom? Looks like he may be military with that crew cut, but he could be DC's janitor who snuck in during the group photo.

So that would leave...Breach. Again, no ideas what universe he comes from or how he relates to this. It could be a new universe we have never heard of or something obscure (Triumph's Universe? Or was that just a timeline thing?).

======================================

Gold Rush

[Meltman]

Something new I learned from a comics preview guide from my comic book shop: SPOILER Green Arrow is the character that's going to be Mayor after time skips a year in the future.

[Joe Schmoe]

Thanks for the speedy reply Gold :)

Spoilers in response to Melt's post

Yeah, DC put the March month up, and that seems to be the major One Year later releases. They seemed really good on only dropping hints, but Green Arrow they flat out say he's mayor now

Well the Day of Vengeace special came out this month, Rann/Thanagar is next month, with the OMAC finally in March. Guess this means Villains United is April and will have to wait the longest to get my hands on.. *eye twitch*

[Meltman]

Um, OMAC TPB has been out since December...

[Joe Schmoe]

Not the trade paper backs. The epilogues for each of the four series. Like http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=4703

[Meltman]

Ah, those, ok.

[Chain Lightning]

I think there's going to be a series based on the Villains United group coming also.

[Gold Rush]

STOP !!

The following post contains spoilers, speculations, and out-right information dumping that may be hazaradous to the health of pregnant women, the eldrerly, and comic book fans of the "Infinite Crisis" series of books which have yet to come out. The author makes no assurances that this specualtion will ultimately prove true, but you should consult a physician all the same. General readings can cause mild heart palpitations, watery eyes and ambiant radiation exposure in a small percentage of the general populace sampling of case studies. Use of percentages will be given as a sort of grading method of the certainty of certain events actually will take place.

Again, I beg to GOD you do not read this Necronomicon of Infinite Crisis spoilers or your sould will go to some pitiful indie comic company....The one that publishes Lady Death!

Well, here we go.

Just some set up. I broke down and bought Wizard issue 171 and could not find this 52 List you speak of. It may've been issue 170, but I don't feel like tracking it down for the moment becuase I have been putting this off and...it's Wizard!

Just to warn you, I am very good at foreseeing an ending to a movie if I am not actively engrossed in it (and sometimes when I am engrossed; if you give me time to think, it's all over! I know the ending!)

Of course, when I actually start to WRITE this, my mind goes numb.

Another point, I am judging each choice of the questions individually, so all 4 chocies will not add up to 100%, but you may get figures like 275% .

So, let's start off with Wizard's multiple questions :

1) Which heroine will give birth?

Well, part of the 52 list says Catwoman, even my gut tells me so,but let's go over the cross outs anyway and reasons why and percentages :

*Wonder Woman - (5%) I feel she will be on the run for most of the Year. I think the direction, writing wise, will be the fact that she feels alone and isolated (no amazons. not many other heroes. world generally hates her). I don't think she'd find the time for romance.

*Oracle - (10%) I think she was picked by Wizard at Random. It's not impossible for her to become pregnant, but her "job" will become even more active than before. The is a tete-a-tete against Calculator. Possible rape? I hope not! Character's suffered enough, but there are not too many sacred cows in this series.

*Power Girl - (30%) Actually, I think her odds may even be better. I will cover a bit more details later.

*Catwoman - (80%) Yes, it could be a red-herring, but given what Doc D has given up on the 52 list, the Earth-2 previous marriage, the "surprise" covered below, The Nail, and other things, I feel she will be the one to give birth. It is too soon to tell if it will be a baby girl named Helena, but I give that an 85% over a Boy named Sue. I also feel this may mean marriage for Bruce Wayne, or at least, I VERY strong live-in-relationship. The #50 Catwoman synopsis in Wizard (I should read it) has the Cat having a heart-to-heart with the Zat..(anna). I think this may be setting certain things up. I also feel that since Zatanna is so guilt-ridden about mind-wiping Batman, she is willing to help things along. Zatanna is seeking a redemption in the eyes of Batman.



2) Which one will be stripped of Powers?

*Green Lantern/Hal Jordan - (9%) No. He just came back. Too soon, although, it would be quite angsty if he DID lose his powers just about then. But, I somehow doubt it. I feel it should also affect other Green Lanterns.

*Wonder Woman - (14%) Actually, that percentage is kinda high. She has enough on her plate while on the run. It could be possible that they could harken back to the time when she wore the White Suit/Gui when she lost her powers. It could happen, but not high on priority. The fact they are restarting her magazine is a possible clue to her new direction, but I don't think it will be because she had her powers stripped. Maybe her gods got angry?

*Supergirl - (5%) Too new. Just came back. Sure, it would be double angst if she lost her powers and then died...AGAIN, but I doubt this is her course. I literally flipped through the latest Superman on the stands and it seems she is going to outer space, so I think, she will be away from the action. I think Kara will be safe, unless there is some sort of cosmic backlash with...Powergirl! Yes, perhaps if we run with this tangent, Alex Luthor and Superboy-P need her power. Perhaps they want ONE Supergirl, as on "their" Earth and Powergirl is it. But, that's not really "stripped", it's "Dead". I don't think this will be explored.

*Superman - (96%) Yes, HE will be stripped. His comic is starting over, the flagship of DC comics. So that is the new direction of the comic, which ties directly to question #5 and will be more detailed there.


3) Who will become Mayor of their city? (This is an especially tricky question, and ultimately useless, but it may shed some light on things)

*Dick Grayson/Nightwing - (3%) Which IS his city? Gotham? Bludhaven? No matter, I don't think he will settle into a mayoral role. I think his life may become better...for the short term. He still has a full plate for Titans and all. There has been talk that he may become the new Batman. Again, it is unclear to me because there are not enough facts. I feel he will still be in the hero business.

*Oliver Queen/Green Arrow - (50%) Many fans are saying THIS guy will be the mayor. It is possible, lots of things can change in a Year that makes him reconsider being..."THE Man!" instead of championing causes of the little guy against..."THE Man! He has normally chaffed against such rules and regulations. Not enough info on how he will turn out. If I had to choose the 50/50 of him being mayor or not, I would choose "No". It's just not his personality (of course, there are LOTS of things that may change in the coming year).

*Wally West/Flash - (75%) Actually, I am more 50/50 about this too, but here are my reasons that are linked to #7 (and which I will divulge and not build up suspense as I have been with some of these questions). There has been ALOT of talk and comments like, "You can't have a Crisis without a dead Flash." Now, admittedly, I am spotty on the last few years of Wally, but it looks like he has a nice family life. It sorta reminds me of how they *suddenly* gave Barry Allen a "Happy Ending" just before his death in Crisis (his wife was found alive and he took off for the future with her). Saying this, I don't think they really will kill Wally. I think he may retire, to focus on family life. So that possibly fits in with which hero won't be around after I-Crisis. So, being a civilian, why not run for mayor. Effectively, the FLASH is dead, but Wally lives on.

Another thing to add, JSA #80. Again, I need to read this, but it states 2 JSA members disappear forever after this issue. "Forever" is relative, but let's see. We got the young folks of the JSA...May not be an emotional impact...what about the OLDER members. May be one of them. It says Dr. Fate fights Mordru for the last time. That could mean he is one of the JSA that disappears. Skipping all the other choices (Hawkman and Hawkgirls are non-choices actually), there is the Garrick Flash. Perhaps THIS is the Flash "death"? Of course, if Wally retires, he will be the ONLY Flash besides Impul...err...Kid Flash. This may mean Bart takes over as the "Flash". I actually prefer Bart as Impulse; I hope he won't be the New Flash, but you never know. Maybe everything WILL be retconned...or not. This still meshes in with Wally retiring from Super-heroing. Having a family and seeing a "death" by someone close (Garrick). Garrick has become an icon almost all by himself; he is the LEAST changed of all the remaining "old guard" of the original JSA (although Alan Scott has gone back to normal). It would be poignant..and regretable if Jay died, but it IS a distinct possibility.


*Bruce Wayne/Batman - (70%) Amazing, no? Well, think of it this way. All this talk of who will be pregnant and the best choice is Catwoman/Selina. I feel the changes will cosmically ripple and implant an Earth-2 template over the universe. Bruce of Earth Two, in his later years, became police commissioner, married Selina Kyle, had a baby girl. I feel the role of Commissioner will still be filled by James Gordon (unless they replaced him in the comics with someone else; again I need to catch up). The next best role would be...Mayor. This would leave the Batman role open to...whomever (with Dick Grayson the best choice, but perhaps Jason Todd is re-arranged in the new Universe, never "died" in the first place, so he'd be a shoe-in). Bruce would be in retirement (or semi-retirement). Of course, Selina would give up her former criminal role of Batwoman to become a Batwoman (ala "JLA : The Nail" ). "Elseworlds affecting this world. Remember JSA #80, Fate and Mordru cross over into Kingdom Come and The Nail territory. Selina may actually become the main vigilante of Gotham once Bruce becomes mayor (making her the NEW Batman, so to speak). Actually, I should give this option 85%, but, I like to keep options open or in other words, I still need a few more facts to cross-check.

4) Who will have Amnesia and not be able to tell Friend from Foe?

Now, this is a weird question. As interesting as it is, WHAT possible effect could this have on the Crisis storyline if someone has Amnesia.

Let's go into theories over this: Perhaps, in a sense, this Amnesia serves the same purpose as the Psycho-Pirate's role. In otherwords, who will remember the old universe when the new one is here? Who will provide the clues that lead the fight to get it back? I-Crisis ain't over yet, even with this One Year jump, so there's gotta be someway out of this.

Now, here's another thing to consider, HOW did this person have amnesia? Did they bump their head while making coffee? I think there is something more here; the amnesia was induced on purpose and it may've been Zatanna that did this. It could be some other magical-using entity, such as Doctor Fate, right before he "goes away". It would fit nicely if it was Zatanna who caused this.

Onto the choices :

*Martian Manhunter - (80%) At first I was thinking "Mind Powers" related to amnesia loss, so maybe this number is too high, but let's see. He did not have an Earth-2 counterpart, has been a part of almost every JLA ever formed and this would be a good role for him to fill. He'd be strong, can defend himself, and become a bigger hero of sorts at the end of all this.

*Aquaman - (66%) Well, he has his own continent/land to retreat to, meaning he doesn't have to face these new "strangers" all the time. Fits in with the Mind Powers scenario of possibly coping with this amnesia better than others. He may not be noticed by "the powers that be" and squashed before hope of the universe's return comes to pass. Still, while this category is a toss-up, I'd consider him a weaker choice.

*The Atom - (75%) You don't wanna get noticed? Here's your man. He's a scientist who would be driven to get at the truth (although the Martian is not a slouch in truth-finding for that matter, either.) Interesting that ALL these choices were with the JLA when Zatanna was on the team. Makes you think she'd choose a friend.

*Elongated Man (90%) Now, THIS would be angst at it's best. Of course, you say Rubber is not a big power, but this is the kinda thing enemies underestimate all the time. Not saying he will fight and all, but he has proven himself in a few JLA books of the past and here is his chance to shine, especially after Sue's death. However, if the universe is reset, I think Miss Dibney would be around, which would provide the aforementioned angst of him thinking, "Should I replace the universe with the one before or leave this happier one in place, especially since my wife is dead?" (This thought would occur, of course, after he has used his detective skills and deduced the answer to his amnesia.) He may or may not know his wife as he did with his friends/foes. And again, something to chew about, Lorna (Atom's Ex) is still out there as Eclipso, remember I asked "Why the HECK choose her?!?", well, this would answer that quite nicely and give Ralph...MORE ANGST at the moment of decision since it connects to him even more. This would serve as a redeeming act for his suffering during Identity Crisis.

Actually, if it IS Ralph, I sense a happy ending for him out of all of this (a hint right there).


5) Who will take the Mantle as the Most Powerful Hero in the DCU?

No debate here.

*Earth-2 Superman - (100%)Think about how this all clicks together. The old Universe is back. Superman-1 has a restart of his title and loses his powers (so I say!). He potentially becomes a criminal in the eyes of the World. Of course Superman-1 would be the last best chance to bring back the world so he would be taken down (probably by Alex Luthor and Superboy-P). This would make Superman-2 top dog. It would be his world. He can again be friends with Bruce Wayne and everything is a John Byrne book of happiness in Elseworldland. You could even say, Superman-1's power is added to that of 2's. Maybe a device made by Alex Luthor (and maybe this saves 2's Lois Lane, too)? Maybe Gold K strips one of his powers (again, probably Alex Luthor, but maybe Supes-2 buckles down to do it; doubtful, I consider him an innocent and he does not know about Alex/Superboy-P's plans).

It also "maybe" falls into place (although I am reaching) of one of Doc D's 52 presented points. Luthor (Alex) forms his own Justice League with a "familiar face" (Earth-2 Supes).

Just for fun, talk about the other choices :

*Booster Gold - (22%) He's got his powers back. New Skeets. Will be an "A" List hero, although, this could be a sly remark to the OMAC's designation of threat levels. Given all this, and given the fact that Booster will prove himself (loss of friend Beetle, "I can't believe it's the JLA TPB"), I think his odds of becoming most powerful should be lower. Probably more like 2%

*Green Lantern/Kyle Rayner - (37%)There is that cryptic side-bar reference to a new comic called "Ion". New power? Probably not. And as for multiple Lanterns in the Earth-2 Universe, some things don't really affect the ultimate balance so multiple GL's are alright. This retro-Earth-2, I feel, will mainly be Earth-2, but will combine certain things from Earth-1. If you will, a "What if?" question such as, "What if the Earth-2 template won out in Crisis of Infinite Earth rather than the Earth-1 template?"

*Animal Man - (10%) Yeah, I may've boosted his numbers, but I like Animal Man. He could possibly become a powerful force of nature linked to the cosmic wildlife of everything, but I seriously doubt it.


6) Which hero will become a criminal in the eyes of the World?

Again, I will cut to the chase :

*Superman-1 - (93.5%)Again, it fits. New title. A direct threat to the status quo of "New Earth-2", as in, there is only ONE TRUE Superman. There could be Superboys, girls,women, cats, dogs, horses, monkeys, clones, et al, but not an other universe doppelganger! Heaven's forbid the Marvel path to ruiniation! (Nate Grey, Rachel Summers, many others). He may even be treated as a Bizarro-like being, although I am pretty sure Bizarro survives. More likely, either before or after he loses his powers, he will become a criminal (flase evidence planted to make him look bad). Either way, he will eventually have to survive by the skin of his teeth and that MAY call on his either helping the amnesia-friend/foe character and/or seeking help from his former best friend, Bruce Wayne as to how to survive by his wits. This also will cause Bruce angst, as he is finally happy in his life, but somehow, deep down, he knows Supes-1 is right and the world is not correct, so Bruce may wind up helping him take the New Earth-2 down, even if Bruce is not happy about it. It IS possible something finally galvanizes Wayne that pushes him, possibly the alluded to "Does Dick Grayson have a better life on Earth-2?" to Earth-2 Superman in issue 3. This may mean Grayson dies, at least on this world....or forever.

Other choices :

*Green Lantern/Hal - (20%)Perhaps he is framed and flies away from Earth, being the "only hero" able to figure it out, given his Spectre involvement? I doubt it will be Hal, too obvious a choice. He's been a criminal before, even if he does something in his current US government job. I doubt this choice.

*Flash - (87%)Notice how on this entry, they only say "The Flash" and not "Wally West/The Flash"? Interesting, but I think this is a lazy typo. The picture is Wally's, I don't think it's Barry's and I doubt it's Bart's. Still, one possible way he could become a criminal in this new Earth-2 is that the "Flash" did something (or was framed) to give him such a status. Perhaps killing Professor Zoom (reliving those events) or some such. Well, it would fit in nicely of Wally retiring from his Flash role and retreating to his secret Identity. So, again, Wally "Kills" the Flash for his own reason and not a cosmic one. Remember, his is one of the books getting cancelled. I think it will be among the few that get re-numbered at #1. If he is the criminal, this would set a new story-arc and life for Wally in his new book (and have a harken back effect of Barry).

*Captain Marvel - (67%)Again, he has possibilities. Again, I doubt he will be the criminal, but he did go toe-to-toe with Spectre. He is magical and a possible weakness to Supes-2. Alex and Superboy-P May decide to frame him or at least call his inability to stop the Spectre criminal. He could hide out as Billy Batson, but I think Supes-2, Alex, Superboy-P, and a few others know that part of his secret ID, and it IS Happy-go-lucky Earth-2 where everyone knows your name and picnics with you eventually, even former villians. It's funny how he is only listed here. I think he is another red herring.

But on the subject, has anyone considered that bringing back the old Universe might actually bring back the Multiple Earths? So the Shazams would be on Earth-S? Again, I don't think this is the case, I think it will be a simple "What if" win as I posed earlier, but it is a slight possibility.

There is a slight clue, since Phil Jimenez gives things away during his Wizard outing on page 44. He smiles when it is brought up that it will tie in with the previous Crisis. Sure, this may be a smile leftover from the previous statement, but I think this all ties in more than we know. We should expect anything, even Barry Allen to return (and the reason I give for Wally quitting the Superhero game and possibly becoming Mayor). For me, even though I am fairly sure (but not 100% :) ) how this will end up, we cannot disregard that DC will RETURN to a multiple Earth scenario, even if it's just for a short run. Perhaps the new Freedom Fighters are in this new book? Already, Wildstorm operates seperately from the DC main world. It is something to consider in the search of clues until it can be totally disproven.


7) Which one of these heroes is the ONLY one who'll be around after Infinite Crisis?

Heck, at first I thought it was "Which one WON'T" be around?" Choices...Choices.

*Superboy/Conner Kent - (2%) I think he will get the heave-ho. Either as a noble death, killed by Superboy-P, or something. Kinda sad to see him go, but I think DC is breaking some important eggs to stir things up. I see such a big set-up of Superboy-P hating him that it is almost inevitable. So he gets my vote.

*Flash/Wally - (40%)Again, I point to lots of rumors of "Wally Will Die/A flash must die!" Needless to say, if he's retired and even in the Mayor's seat, he is not dead, just his superhero ID. This leaves the door open for him to come back in a few years without outright killing him. I could be wrong, he could die, but I sense a set-up trick here. I think Wally will be fine, but the Flash won't.

*Guy Gardner - (85%) Well, even though they JUST brought him back, they still could axe him. Or he could settle down as a teacher/Drill Instructor on Oa. It is possible he could die, there ARE just too many Earth-based GLs. Would be a nice way to clean house and break some good eggs, but somehow, I think this choice is my favorite of actually sticking around.

*Dick Grayson/Nightwing - (25%) Again, these fan rumors of Dick will take over the Batman role, no he won't. He will retire, no he won't. Sheesh.I think this bee's nest of talk is onto something, but not the correct reasons. Heck, maybe Grayson DOES become a Mayor...or maybe he dies...or maybe he retires, I think if the events of I-Crisis end in a certain way, he may relinquish his role(s) and just retire or even become someone new (or go back to being Robin, which is actually possible he never left the Robin persona, but I doubt that because of Pre-Crisis reasons. Grayson is a BIG question mark. I can't see Wayne leaving the role of Batman for long, unless he does finally get a happy ending of sorts. Grayson may mirror his Earth-2 death or he may be the new Batman. Kinda hard to read these Tea leaves with the info I have.

Of course, if Doc D's hopes are right, then he may become an entirely new hero.


8) Which Superteam does not survive?

SKIP


9) Who's about to become the U.S. Military's Secret Weapon?

*Red Tornado - (99.9%) He's a robot. It was shown in Issue 13 of Justice League Unlimited by DC Comics/Cartoon Network that the government, specifically a hacker working for Amanda Waller, tapped into Reddy's programming and sent him on a calculated rampage to make the JLU look bad. I think more than a few staff memebers at DC know about I-Crisis' ultimate storyline and it's affecting some of their storylines, even in small, subtle ways when it has no right to affect such storylines.

Yes, I picked up the comic just so I can get the style and get back into drawing. So...there!

Also, one of Doc D's present 52 points says there will be a new Red Tornado. It is possible the Air Elemental inside his body will move to another host.

*Green Lantern/Stewart - (0%)

No.

*Wonder Woman - (1%) Are you KIDDING me?! Sure, MAYBE she worked out a deal and decided to work WITH the US Governement to clear her name and get amnesty. But, I doubt Diana would become a tool of the military. Also, the wording of the question strikes me as something inanimate, like a Robot.

*Cyborg - (15%) I doubt it. He DOES have inanimate gears and could be controlled as a Military Weapon, but I think Vic already went through this and background wise, it would not fit well with his story. Reddy being T.O. Morrow-tech seems more in-line with something that can be manipulated, replicated, and perhaps as a Governmental counter to the OMACs.

10) Which villian will destroy an entire country and kill millions of people?

*Brainiac - (3%) Let's face it, unless they are talking Vril Dox from the LEGION, then the Brainiac we all know and hate will seemingly "pop" pout of nowhere (or at least be brought out as the villians laugh to themselves as he was there under the dishwasher all this time). I am thinking another random pull, but I could be wrong. He did go on a rampage in the rather innane Dark Knight 2.

*Vandal Savage - (30%) He is more like a wildcard. He could possibly do it, but I don't forsee any set-ups that he HAS to do it. I think he'd rather rule over slaves and as a result, is an unlikely candidate.

*Sinestro - (77%) As it says somewhere in this same issue ("Society Attacks, Page 80), "These are aliens to him. They mean nothing. They are like ants, he's killed thousands before." He certainly has the history. But not the set-up. No, if I were betting on this, I would go with...

*Black Adam - (99.8%) He runs his country of Kuharq (sp); a homeland from his far distant past. He cares about the country. He has been shown many times in I-Crisis and I feel there is more use to him than just a power source they will use him as. He has even mentioned Kuwharq is very important to him in the series. With the set-ups in the JSA and whatnot, I think something unrelated to I-Crisis will make itself known, Earth-2's "Goody" atmosphere will unravel. An invasion from a nearby country next to Kuwharq will be planned and initiated. Black Adam will simple fly over to that country and kill EVERYONE he can find to end the threat to his homeland. This will be a symptom of the evilness that Earth-2 cannot be sustained since it was formed by two rats such as Alex Luthor and Superboy-P.


Whew, sure is a long enough post and I bet it looks like nothing to those that haven't bothered to click, so let's do some smiles to make people wonder.

:lurk: :nutkick: :leeroy:

Anyway, back to some points.

I am saddened that Alex is now evil. He may've been corrupted and is doing evil just to save Lois (having been cut off from the world), but it is not what I hoped.

I am especially saddened Superboy-P has become such an evil bastard. He was suppossed to be from OUR world and a good child for Supes-2 and Lois-2 and now, he's almost like a psycho-bugger! :ninja: I kinda hope he can redeem himself, but I am not seeing this yet from what I am reading.

Here is a BIG spoiler...of my own devising..

Still time to turn away... :notme:

Better get a move on. :waiting:

Don't read the next line..... :monkeys:




I told you not to read the next line!


Anyway, here it is.



Powergirl will die. As much as I hate to see it, many signs are pointing this way. This is why I gave a possible high score if she were the one to actually give birth, because part of her won't die. She will either be erased when Earth-1 reasserts itself (since we now have a Supergirl) or she will die heroically. Needless to say, I HOPE I am wrong, but Phil Jimenez's smile clinched it for me. I am a student of human nature and while I admired and understood Jimenez's attempts to ask fans about things, he is not that subtle; there are less inocuious (sp) ways to ask questions that don't creep people out. I can understand Phil's curiousity, I'd be just like him, but you have to know human nature to not tip the boat.

Frankly, Powergirl has not fit into the DCU very well after Crisis with one origin or another,a although her personality is great (but can get on my nerves sometimes). So, in essence, I think she will be the "major" hero to die from this, like Barry was. Hey, I'd gladly be wrong, but I think it's time to bring out the black armbands with the big boobies and mourn a fun character that has gone from the world of writing.

But...maybe she will come back, in a different way, since so many dead folks are coming back nowadays (too often). Or maybe Batman hit the nail on the head; ever since Superman died to Doomsday, heroes have been coming back from the dead more and more. Maybe THAT was some sort of turning point in the universe.

Well, we can only hope. It is still just an imaginary story, but, aren't they all? :lol: :rockon: :headbang:




















Oh, I am just filling up more space to be a bastard! :D


:tomato:

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Gold Rush

[Meltman]

One thing:

Green Arrow WILL be mayor. This is already confirmed by DC.

[coldcut]

Seems sort of like an amalgam of everything that's been relatively innovative in comics recently: Ex Machina, Top Ten, Alias, even a little silver age mojo courtesy of Invincible. All we need now is for the DC universe to be taken over by zombies en masse.

[Seadevil]

Marvel beat 'em to it. (http://www.marvel.com/catalog/showcomic.htm?id=3430&format=comic) :D

[Solario]

I have to admit, that while I doubt Winnick stole the concept from Vaughan, it does seem suspicious that it's planned right after Ex Machina's debut. But personally I just want this whole event trip the big companies are in to be over and done with.

[Joe Schmoe]

Just picked up number four.. So.. confused.. I'll let others read it and recap :D

[Seadevil]

... Wow.

Hightlight it, sucka.

WOOOOOW!!! Red Star, Pantha, and Wildebeest dead. Risk gets his arm ripped off. Firestorm has to be rebuilt. BARRY F'N ALLEN! The re-emergence of Earth-2. Bludhaven wiped off the map... Just wow. This was by far the best issue yet. I'll give thoughts on what I can, but I read it yesterday and i'm still in shock over it all so i'll probably miss something.

My money's on not only Bart returning from the Speed Force, as per the The Future Is Now arc that was in Teen Titans a while back, but the West twins as well. That last frame where the lightning sparked in their eyes was a sign of what's to come.

The Spectre finally bound to a new host, but well after the damage is done. I can see a good mini coming out of this.

I still think it's odd that the Marvel Family still gains/loses their power when they speak Shazam's name. Makes me think more and more we haven't seen the last of the wizard.

That's all i've got for right now. My hat's off to Geoff Johns and Co. This is the first comic ever to get me this excited.

[Poison]

I find it highly confusing and too cliche. So it was LL-2 all the time, yay. And the old Supes of course doesn't notice anything. And the oh-so-good Superboy creates a good carnage for not really wanting to hurt anyone. And all those Flashes lost in the Speed Force... that can only lead to stupid explanations to why the ones will be able to come out again and others won't.
I guess I just didn't like the sublime message of this issue, that the evil Earth 1 people aren't that bad really (Nightwing) and the Golden Age people are actually way worse (and blind) when provoked.

[Gold Rush]

Well, now that I read it. I am wondering what had Joe confused.

Anyway...

You forgot "poor Chemo" biting the dust (literally). There seems to be ALOT of missing info that has happened from "before"; as in, the rest of the story is probably happening in each hero's respective issues. So, I am trying to buy what is out there and what has happened at the moment, especially the "soon to be cancelled" series.

Sheesh, they are gonna "restart" the numbering of Superman at #650? This sorta "pisses me off!" (excuse the language) because I remember when they restarted numbering these issues, they were among the oldest comics around. We woulda been up to...well, I don't know the exact number, but probably #1000 or beyond! Heck! Now Marvel has the top spot of longest numerically running comic. :p

I guess I missed Powergirl getting captured. Anyone can give me the issue/series where that happened?

I also don't quite understand where the "perfect pocket universe" could go so wrong, although, there is always trouble in paradise. Strangely, it seems to be a mirror as to what is happening currently in the universe; base emotions clouding Alexander and Superboy-P. I wonder...

Looks like someone went AWOL on the Anti-Monitor Corpse tower ("Breach", as DD pointed out earlier). I wonder where he went. If anyone has an issue that shows this, post it here.

The use of Psycho-Pirate by Alexander Luthor goes a fair distance as to WHY Eclipso went all so...Lovey-Lusty-Dovey. I am glad to see the Spectre being punished for his crimes, but it does not seem to fit actually in some strange way; maybe the story of the Spectre as presented by DC has moved beyond such simple trappings as being connected to a human. Mind you, I expect an interesting future for the Spectre, but it does seem sorta like stuffing a brilliant red-green-purple Bull elephant into a shoe box and just saying, "It's done."

It is also interesting to see that all the villians that were recruited by the Society have specific vibrational genetic codes. It makes me wonder about the villians that were NOT recruited, such as those from Villians United. Maybe they still have a future stake in all this on a more cosmic level.

Superboy-P moves planets like the original did. That explains the disappearance of Rann that kicked off the war (but it does kinda belittle the Adam Strange title that I was hoping would be completely unto itself with little super-heroics.).

And now there is a new Raw Wild Magic, neither of Order or Chaos. Makes me wonder how the Heavens and Hells are fairing. I somehow feel, we should not count old Shazam out.

Sheesh, does EVERYTHING that is written about Superboy-P here have to make me hate him so much? I used to love the character. Now he's just a sulky little spoiled boy. I can see the Shakeperean angst building in what he has inadvertently become. I am kinda hoping Red Star aint gone, but since this series is suppossed to change things, odds are not good. Another arm can be built/grown for Risk (whoever he is; never heard of him). Anyone know the last guy Superboy-P killed? He's on the corner page weilding a sword; basically we see his top AND bottom halves, so he's dead, too. Whoever he was.

The Flash event was rather puzzling. I would like to know what happened to Max; I know he disappeared awhile ago, but I didn't think he'd be..."there". With other speedsters that are dead and gone. The Speed Force has been shown to be another dimension all together. I think once you touch it, there is a piece of you that is everywhere at once; so, in effect, you can't die. It's not quite like the Force clones a speedster, but if he ever has stepped in, he has all the time in the world, from our perspective, to come back and then hope back into the speed force, since, I am hypothesizing here, time is irrelevant.

Another thing during the Flashs' run is that Wally was surprised when he left Bart's side. So, again, I may have to change my hypothesis on Wally's future. Again, need more data, but I also think Bart and Wally and the twins will return...sometime. I also think what Barry says is cryptic, "Wally's waiting for you, Bart." What could this all mean? Maybe this is a scenario in which the FLASHES replace Superman-1's place in the paradise Universe. Perhaps the universe yanked Wally out (Supes-1), his wife (Lois), and Bart (Superboy-P). Of course, I don't know if Wally will get a potential villian-gone-good replacement (Alex) and if the twins don't disrupt things. It is also quite possible, that Wally has replaced Barry's place and now Barry is back. But I doubt this scenario, because we see Johnny Thunder and Max Mercury along with Barry.

The Speed Force is gone. This indicates it may've been intentionally taken away, trapping Superboy-P and giving him no way out. So, most likely, Barry is not back, but since Wally was not a part of that event, he is still around (and perhaps, like I am guessing, has replaced Barry's role in Crisis events for the new Earth-2 and beyond. Perhaps Bart was thrown in with him or will find a way back, because the Speed Force is not destroyed, but hidden/gone from the time frame for safety (Superboy-P's escape). I think Jay Garrick will still be able to run fast in the new universe, because at that point, there was no Speed Force (Well, there WAS but the comics of pre-Crisis did not point to any speed force giving the Flashes their powers). They can normally run fast, but with the Speed Force, they can run faster (which is why Wally trounced Quicksilver in the Avengers/JLA crossover).

Again, like I feared. The odds were not in Airwave's favor. May DC rest his soul. :cry:

I think the new Firestorm is alive and well (but have to read his series) in that the Elemental-Professor-Firestorm is rejoining the Firestorm pairing, but with Jason instead of Ronnie. This has the possibility of hopefully freeing Ronnie into a more active role in the DC universe. Again, we'll have to see. After this, Firestorm should damn well be pretty powerful.

I also noticed something strange, that might be nothing. On the second to the last page, when the JSA (and supposedly other original Earth-2 influences) disappear, Mister Terrific is STILL there, although he is not related to the original Earth-2 Mister Terrific, he WAS inspired by him. The same goes for Dr. Midnite, who you see in the background. Not related, but WAS inspired. And even Star-Spangled Kid. Same inspiration, but STILL here! (However, I am not positive who that robot was that disappeared with the JSA, but I believe it was S.T.R.I.P.E.S., Star-Spangled's robotic sidekick. He was also inspired by Stripsey, yet HE has disappeared and not the kid...) Also, notice the city-scape behind, it also disappeared leaving...only sky behind. This may mean nothing, but notice that half-purple person and others who look are looking at the city-scape at the time. They seemed rather surprised. Could it be, they are no longer on ANY Earth? Maybe I am making something out of nothing in regards to the city-scape, but I am not quite so sure at the moment.

Also, I am quite happy with the Baman and Robin, however the blurb in the back for #4 list many things that are either sensationalized or missed. "Witness a shoking confrontation between Batman and Nightwing"??? I saw none here. "Vicious battle that threatens to tear the heroes of the DCU further apart"?? If you mean the shift to a Multiple Universe, yeah, but in that viscious battle, they were all working together. And of course the cryptic, "..and a startling change to the recently deceased!"? Maybe will see the change in #5, because #4 did I did not see anyone come back from the dead, besides the speedsters and their deaths are not by any means "recent". I may be wrong, but Batman may be a key to unlocking this mystery...once he gets the OMACS out of his mind; he does seem obsessed with them. Of course, I can't really blame him.

I also think Booster Gold may actually turn out to be a mentor for the new Blue Beetle. The jury is still out on this new Blue Beetle for me. :/

And...the story is moving fast, but given seven issues, I expected this. Still, I would prefer more pages, especially for an event of this magnitude.


=================================================

Gold Rush

[Gold Rush]

I find it highly confusing and too cliche. So it was LL-2 all the time, yay. And the old Supes of course doesn't notice anything. And the oh-so-good Superboy creates a good carnage for not really wanting to hurt anyone. And all those Flashes lost in the Speed Force... that can only lead to stupid explanations to why the ones will be able to come out again and others won't.
I guess I just didn't like the sublime message of this issue, that the evil Earth 1 people aren't that bad really (Nightwing) and the Golden Age people are actually way worse (and blind) when provoked.

I think it's more of a balance, Poison. Golden Age Superman ain't violent. I think it is more a morality lesson. In actuallity, neither world is inheriently better or worse than the other. LL-2's search for a better world is doomed to fail.

The Supes-1 not noticing kinda got my goat and is cliched, but did kinda remind me of a Shakesperean tragedy.

It does move a bit too fast with little page count. There really needs more exposition and explanation. But, since it is a mystery, my nose is a'twitching, ala Elongated Man. :)

====================================

Gold Rush

[Poison]

Powergirl's capture was in JSA Classified #1-3, I think. Was well written and had great art, also good humor (a lot of it about her boobs, of course).

Reading your post, I think I noticed what I didn't like amongst others: that Villains United and OMAC had actually pretty little to do with the Crisis. It remains to be seen, of course, but so far VU was pretty unnecessary storywise and OMAC of course led to WW's kill and Batman's paranoia, but they are unimportant now.

[Joe Schmoe]

Think I got it all down, what got me specifically:

Who that other speedster was, but yeah, its Johnny Thunder. I really really hope Bart returns. Impulse is one of the reasons I came to DCU in the first place, so I'm hoping this isn't the end of him.

Oh, and who was the guy Spectre went into?

And what the hell happened to Airwave? That completely flew over my head. But the list of the people who died helped alot, as I couldn't tell who they were myself. :lol:

[AfterglowNoMore]

Gold Rush, STRIPE wasn't inspired by Stripesy, he is Stripesy. Pat Dugan/Stripesy married Coutney/Star Spangled Girl's mom. And after Courtney found Pat's gear, he started using STRIPE to babysit and train her.

[Gold Rush]

Gold Rush, STRIPE wasn't inspired by Stripesy, he is Stripesy. Pat Dugan/Stripesy married Coutney/Star Spangled Girl's mom. And after Courtney found Pat's gear, he started using STRIPE to babysit and train her.

So he's an "old guy" in a suit, sorta like Wildcat? Admittedly, I haven't looked deep into figuring out Star-Spangled Girl and I assumed STRIPES was a robot.

But one other thing : Okay, so the Society is NOT the Injustice Society, but I read somewhere that it does seem to be, at least linked to, the former Earth-1 Super Villian group of the 60-70's with the rather long name of "The Secret Society of Super Villians" that even had their own comic. There are two references to this, but if you want, I'll drag them out.

=======================================

Gold Rush

(Oh, and that was Johnny Quick, Joe. Not Johnny Thunder :) )

[Gold Rush]

Reading your post, I think I noticed what I didn't like amongst others: that Villains United and OMAC had actually pretty little to do with the Crisis. It remains to be seen, of course, but so far VU was pretty unnecessary storywise and OMAC of course led to WW's kill and Batman's paranoia, but they are unimportant now.

There always seems to be a history of tangently related side-stories in these kind of books throughout comic history; not necessarily connected to the big event.

I think Villians United is my favorite. It gives a nice set-up and history and shows what the villians are up to, but the only direct link I see is scheme Alex and some background as to what the villians are up to. This actually seems to be more of a continuation of Identity Crisis.

I know that DC is putting all these *massive* stories all together to take the reader's collective breath away. While the OMACs are being dealt with and even Alex says something about using them for his reasons (and don't forget the blurb for Inf. Crisis #5), They too are of little concern in the grand scheme of things. The worse case of this is the Rann-Thangarian War. I know DC wants to show what is happeneing in the Universe and I LOVE good space operas, but this really had me shrugging my shoulders. Also, I really haven't figured out WHY Donna Troy has recruited a bunch of heroes to go "out there". Are they really fighting in the Rann/Thangar war? Keeping the peace? Or something else? This side story is also rather annoying imo and it just for showing chaos "out there". Along the way, we see some heroes die and some change their lives (Firestorm).

I still have a bit of reading to catch up with in the other comic series (crossover events), but I am getting a good picture of things that are happening.

With Flash, it seems just like when Barry went away and the Silver Age run was ended on his series; they give Wally a good life and he starts to think about retiring/resting into civilian life.

I also notice the next issue of Superman (the one year leap program) will be about Earth-2 Kal-L. Neat trick.

Now to look for Teen Titans and Robin's last issues before the big split of the Multiverse.

=========================================

Gold Rush

[Gold Rush]

Ack, lemme answer Joe some more to the best of my ability.

The new Spectre host. I am not sure exactly who that is, but in the dialogue, they mentioned Jim Corrigan, who was the first host for the Spectre. Corrigan seems to be working in the hospital, which is surprising to me, because I thought he was dead and gone. Again, my lack of knowledge here since I didn't read the Spectre series. So either he decided to leave his partnership with the Spectre and retire (although, he was a Police Detective, not a Doctor) ..or..whatever. There are clues in the dialogue. This new hosts seems to be a police man as well.

Actually, I think I may've seen this new host somewhere before. But I am not sure.

Well, Airwave...died? Like I said, Vegas odds are against him. I wish DC would stop killing characters like this because...they are running out of characters like this. :p Actually, it seems he really is not dead. Firestorm's friend says "He split into a million different directions", so I will assume that he got sucked into the Multiple Earth's phenomena that started/was happening at his location. It actually could be he is on Earth-2, just like the JSAers, since it's that same blue flash (although done by a different artist). Airwave was an older hero, but pre-crisis, they sorta moved him to Earth-1 without telling anyone and THIS Airwave is actually the son of the original Airwave, who was an earlier hero. He mainly appeared in back stories of...Action Comics, I believe.

But, it is kinda confusing if this is the case, because here we see Golden Age Green Lantern on the splash page and Captain Comet (who could probably fit into Earth-2 although I think he is more Silver Age). They aren't surrounded by a blue light but they ARE hit with some energy/lightning bolts from the gape in the universe (caused by Alex's hands?). And again, Jade, daughter of this Green lantern, seems to be untouched. I will say at this point, I am probably over-analyzing and will assume the artist probably didn't get to making them disappear. That is, if they are gonna disappear by next issue. You see, Jade should be on Earth-2, because, they formed that group called "Infinity Inc." that was a comic series about the sons and daughters of the Golden Age heroes. Of course, this still leaves the mystery of why the inheritors of Dr. Midnite and Mr. Terrific are still around (I believe the second Dr. Midnite, a black lady, also was in Infinity Inc. for a time).

Or it could be Geoff Johns doesn't truly know his DC history and goofed :P . I am doubting that, actually.

===========================================

Gold Rush

[AfterglowNoMore]

So he's an "old guy" in a suit, sorta like Wildcat? Admittedly, I haven't looked deep into figuring out Star-Spangled Girl and I assumed STRIPES was a robot.

But one other thing : Okay, so the Society is NOT the Injustice Society, but I read somewhere that it does seem to be, at least linked to, the former Earth-1 Super Villian group of the 60-70's with the rather long name of "The Secret Society of Super Villians" that even had their own comic. There are two references to this, but if you want, I'll drag them out.

=======================================

Gold Rush

(Oh, and that was Johnny Quick, Joe. Not Johnny Thunder :) )
Pretty much on the first part. And on the second part are you saying that the Society is linked to the the SSoSV or the Injustice Society is linked to the SSoSV? Either way it's pretty much correct. The SSoSV and the IS have shared members from time to time like the Wizard. And the SSoSV is like the Society in that they both are large groups of villains gathered by powerful benefactors.

[D'Arkaine]

the new host for the spectre is a detective on the gotham pd. He was in gotham central and was detective montoya's partner. I can't think of his name tho.

The corrigan mentioned is not the same corrigan as the spectre's previous host, but is a dirty cop in gotham. Maybe in forensics...he has made evidence "disappear" before.

[Joe Schmoe]

Yay, thank you DCComics.com

Spectre's new host is Detective Crispus Allen

And the death list is Earth-Prime Superboy brutally beat Superboy...and killed Bushido, Wildebeest and Pantha!

I just realised that Mr. Myx's warning to Superman was correct. This is all because of Clark and Lois. Just the Earth 2 ones, not them. Neat :D

[Meltman]

On Powergirl:

She was invited there in issue 2 by Earth-2 Superman, and was knocked out by Superboy Prime near the end of issue 3.

[Gold Rush]

Spectre

"Crispus Allen"?? What kinda name is that? Did his father own a potato chip empire? :D And heck, I wish they would come up with a different last name instead of re-using ones from existing heroes. Even "Smith" woulda been a cool moniker for an "everyman" sorta concept.

I can forgive the Jim Corrigan thing, since D'arkaine jogged my memory; I heard about him in a blurb somewhere. Sort of a neat irony there of a former clean detective and now a dirty unrelated cop.

Other aspects

Well, I have to track down JSA:Classified 2-3 (I got a back issue THIRD printing; I am wondering if people are collecting it and thinking Power Girl is done for?) So far, she is very sympathetic. This really might be a set-up as a "last story" for her. I am having visions of the famous Inf. Crisis on Mult. Earths cover of Superman holding a dead Supergirl in his arms, being re-done in this series with Superman holding a dead Powergirl. :(

I admire the Batman's caution and would probably do what he did (Check out Powergirl's origin like he did with Supergirl) but...sheesh, what a bastard to make her feel small. Poor Kara-2.

==========================================

Gold Rush

[Masked Revenger]

Okay, so I broke down and went to the comic store the other day. I realy was there to buy just the latest issue of Invincible, but I saw Crisis 2, 3 and 4 and bought them (having bought 1 already). I just read them today, and I have to say, this is a damn good story, worthy of being the sequel of the best crossover event in comic book history.

My thoughts:

I believe that Power Girl will die. She will sacriface herself to set everything LL2 has done to rights. There will most likely be a scene with a tearful Superman 2 trying to stop her, but she'll push him aside and do it.

I also believe that Superman 2 will die as well, following Kara's sacrafice. He will die trying to defeat LL2.

As to Supes not knowing what's going on, yes it is cliche. Expect it to get worse. He'll figure out he was duped when his Lois does not get better, and dies. The cover of number 5 shows Supes 2 fighting Supes 1, so he probably blames him first.

I am confused about some things though. Why was it nessicary for all the speedesters to push Superboy-P into the speed force like that? That whole scene didnt make any sense to me. Superboy freaks, starts killing people, the speeders show up and push him... into the Speed Force, shutting it away from the rest of the world? What the hell?

Chris

[Gold Rush]

My thoughts:

Heh! Have to do this in Black.

Power Girl. Order up!

Yes, the more I am seeing (like the interest in JSA classified, I think I am not the only one to figure Power Girl may well die. Again, i hope it's not true, but the introduction of Supergirl and lots of other things (like Jimenez's grin in Wizard) is just too much. Hope I am wrong, but if I were betting, it wouldn't be for her survival.) I also think you are right about the sacrifice she will do. And I still see the visions of a lifeless Powergirl replacing Supergirl's in an homage cover from Inf. Crisis on Mult. Earths.

KaL-L with sloppy joes! Order up!

I see his death, as well. Although I am kinda loathe to have him killed, since he is the ONLY holdover from the multiple earth's sceanrio (aside from Lois and the others). He is REALLY the only "good" thing left from those stories of long ago. It is possible, that some magic-cosmic-joining thing will have the two Superman merge into one. The Vegas odds are still out on that option, but Kal-L's departure from the storylines are about....75%. And I am hedging, because I am such an info hound and need more data. But gut reaction says he will be gone.

Speedster's Milkshake with an side of Super fries! Order up!

Well, let's break this down. I know you didn't ask, but as to Superboy-P's freaking. It really does not match his personality. I get it, he's alone. He wants to be "out there", he gets "warped" in his personality. Yeah, I get it, but it really does not fit his personality to be so...detached. At least he felt remorse over killing. He blamed the Earth for infecting him to do this. As readers, we probably wisely shake our head thinking that the disease is in him. And I believe this as well, but what if it is not? What if this Earth DOES make things a bit too dark? It's just food for thought.

As to the speedsters and the speed force. Well, think of the Speed Force as another pocket dimension. The speedsters pushed him into their "dimension" and basically threw away the key. This is a way to "permanently" lock away Superboy-P. He is much too powerful to be allowed to roam the earth, especially in his state of mind ("freaking out") and being such a threat. He moved planets; that is the power of old Superman (of Earth-1 AND 2). Where else would you lock someone like this away with no handy kryptonite (which would probably not affact him as it does not affect Supes-2) around? Superboy-P is powerful, so it was necessary for as many as could, to lock him in this new prison, even if it means locking themselves away with him (we can assume most of the speedsters are too fast in the Speed Force for Superboy-P to catch, so it would be an endless chase).

So, this basically means, Superboy-P is OUT of the picture. He is no longer part of this series. Unless they SHOW what is going on inside the Speed Force. It is also possible, later on, that he will break out of the Speed Force somehow during the series. At this point, it's not a positively sure thing. But the action and the way it was presented, sure seemed like a sure and permanent thing. So, frankly this means. No Flash (although, I think, it has been shown that the Flashes can run fast without the Speed Force, but not do such spectacular things. But I may be thinking of a bit pre-Crisis in origins, but I do know, for a time, Wally was eating like there was no tomorrow, replenishing his energy output when DC comics were trying to explaon the "science" of Meta-Humans (Chunk was a part of this series). This was eventually dropped. I forget, but I think Wally personally discovered the Speed Force afterwards and comics sorta muddied up this time frame by saying the Speed Force was always there). Back to point, no real Flashes, save one, and he is on Earth-2 now. I am sure the Speed Force will return, but the final outcome of Superboy-P, at least for this series, seemed final. Perhaps, he will come back before the series ends? There is no info at this point. Given Geoff, it is possible.

Also, I would like to note, as an aside, that the new publishing called "52" for the new launches of titles will probably begin shortly. Kal-L taking over the "Superman" mag and all. I am not sure, but is this suppossed to last the WHOLE year (52 weeks) publication -wise? I think they are going back to a weekly format with Action comics as they did in the eighties (and with the old numbering of Pre-Crisis). I am wondering, because we are, effectively, halfway through Infinite Crisis with only THREE more issues to go. That is only three months. We have all heard this will affect the whole DC, but will it be an on-going affect, to play out the rest of the year or will the affect be that things are "solved" but the aftermath has to be contended with (thus shortening the 52 weeks considerably)? I wonder...

?

===============================================

Gold Rush

[The Lightningale]

I know I'm just jumping in here but,

It seems likely that Power Girl survives in some form. Have a look at this issue of Supergirl due out in April...

http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=4947 (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=4947)

Nightwing?

[AfterglowNoMore]

Um, If Kal-L is supposed to be taking over the Superman mag then why does everyone think that he dies in IC? If the books are one year later, then obviously he survives the Crisis, right? Just not sure what you guys are basing your assumption on with that information already stated.

[Meltman]

I know I'm just jumping in here but,

Nightwing and Flamebird were originally personas that Superman and Jimmy Olson came up with to fight crime inside the bottle city. (Where Superman had no powers.)

[Meltman]

Um,

He only takes over for the month of February.

[The Lightningale]

What exactly is the bottle city?

[Meltman]

This can explain it much better than me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandor

[The Lightningale]

Thanks, Melt! :)

[coldcut]

What exactly is the bottle city?

Wastin' away again in Margaritaville...
Tryin' to find my lost shaker of salt...

Oh, wait, wrong bottle city. Though I think I once took on an alternate personality to fight crime the last time I was there. :buddies:

[AfterglowNoMore]

He only takes over for the month of February.
Ah, ok then. That makes much more sense.

[Gold Rush]

Nightwing and Flamebird were originally personas that Superman and Jimmy Olson came up with to fight crime inside the bottle city. (Where Superman had no powers.)

Also, for more "geek" info on this :p , prior to Crisis, when Grayson finally did decide on his Nightwing personae, during a discussion with...someone (I forget who was in the room/balcony at the time. Bruce? The new Robin? Kent?) he did comment that it was a nod to Superman, because Supes was like an uncle to him (Old Silver/Golden Age comics of "World's Finest"). Those costumes were, of course, lossely based by Superman on Batman and Robin's own costumes. Of course, this origin changed after Crisis.

Powergirl...

Correct. I do not see her dying immediately. Remember, this "Year" ahead (52 weeks) is suppossed to be happening right after Crisis. This has me a bit confused, as I stated earlier. Why a seperate event and why just "a year"? Obviously, it seems related to Inf. Crisis so, the events must last far beyond after Inf. Crisis stops being published; after Issue #7. I think that Earth-2 and the multiple earths will stick around during this time. After the "One Year/52" is ended, then we should see some sort of wrap up issue.

If you read the blurbs for Supergirl #6 through #4, you get a sense something is going on. #6's blurb states "there can only be one true Supergirl". So, I am *assuming* it is a fight between Power Girl and Super Girl. Although, I must admit some confusion of all the earths having returned, so it really should be no big deal about having 2 Supermen, 2 Batmen, 2 Supergirls, etc., as long as they stayed on their earths. But, there is probably something more to this. Earth-2 is now the dominant one. Maybe Earth-1 should be the true dominant one cosmically. Again I need more info/facts.

Anyway, back to Power Girl vs. Supergirl. There is something strange going on with that "Dark" aspect living inside of Supergirl. I am not sure exactly what to make of it. Is it part of the "darkness" of Earth-1 living inside the sweet and innocent Earth-1 Supergirl, trying to balance things? Even Power Girl sensed a darkness about Super Girl. Her negative reaction to Supergirl may have something more to do with this dark aspect than any other Earth-colliding thing.

There is also a possible "lame" theory, that at the end of this big event (in 52 weeks), Kal-L will not necessarily die, but merge with the Earth-2 Superman. So he does not "die, persay, but lives on. This even could be true with Superboy, but the costume of Superboy-P may win out (although, really, Connor relates better now with current audiences, so I doubt this merger). It could be possible Power Girl and Supergirl also merge. Perhaps the dark side of Supergirl is something that needs to be filled in by something "good" and Powergirl is it? Again, just speculation on my part.

The fact that Power Girl appears in #7 (supposedly winning the fight with Supergirl in #6) says to me that, for the time being, Power Girl is safe in the Earth-2 primary universe and Supergirl is...out (I doubt Supergirl is dead, since they JUST introduced her, but, let's not underestimate anything; it could be a huge set-up. Doubtful, but at this point, have to consider everything). Also, the fact that this story relates directly to a Silver/Golden Age story pre-Crisis; a nostalgia of Nightwing and Flamebird, kinda tells me this is part of the Earth-2 "liteness" that is coming back (at least for the "52" weeks planned ahead).

Also, at this point, although I am not sure about the status of Earth-1's Batman, I am pretty sure that the Huntress Power Girl teams up with is Helena Wayne, Bruce's Earth-2 daughter and not the current re-made-for-Earth-1 Huntress.

Still, I do hope Power Girl manages to survive, as herself, but, Vegas odds are still long.

Several Sidenotes

I just been reading Captain Atom in the Wildstorm universe recently. It notes that Majestic with his Kherbium computers has track of around 76 parallel earths. Also, I remember the JLA/Avengers team-up of not too long ago (although who knows the true "official" continuity of this is either universe). I was just thinking. DC wiped out their parallel earth syndrome. Marvel took it over for a bit (and I still think are using it). For a bit, DC mentions other earths (after Crisis) are more like...other dimensions; not necessarily parallel earths. Yet here, in this Wildstorm (owned by DC) comic with a DC hero (Captain Atom), parallel earths are brought up again. It seems that comic companies cannot run *totally* away from the concept of near-parallel earths and their story potentials. Frankly, I think this kind of thing isn't given much thought; if DC can team up with another comic company or whatnot, it sorta fudges it's own set continuity and just calls the other earth any other heroes reside on "parallel" and may even truly mean parallel ala Infinite Crisis. You can even see this fudging, at times, during Elseworld stories.

Okay, so Action Comics is going weekly. Again. And all titles are launching one year ahead...damn, spolier alert.

So they launch one year ahead, in this new Earth-2 continuity. Basically, that means, if you want to keep up with the unfolding events for Crisis for...possibly 52 weeks (or sooner, if they condense the year), you'd have to buy alot of comic series. Also, I heard the weekly Action Comics will cost it's standard $2.50. So, I am thinking, this is a bit much for many readers, financial-wise. There is a danger readers will get tired of buying these expensive comics month after month (go back to CHEAP newsprint already to save costs!!) This may ultimately dilute Crisis' effectiveness. Of course, I am sure TPBs will come out, but that won't be for a month or more after the individual series in their own comics wrap up. So...I guess I am a bit miffed by this and will give DC a raspberry :P , unless they make this a shorter event. But I can't help thinking the corporate side is gonna milk this for awhile.

==============================================

Gold Rush

[Solario]

I thought 52 would focus on different heroes and villains thereby not forcing everyone to buy everything. Then again this is Crossover MeaninglessMurderRapeRampage, so I could be wrong.

PS. Everybody knows that there are 196.833 revolving dimensions in the multiverse. ;)

http://www.geocities.com/patchlord/imagem/plansnow.jpg

[Gaia]

52 is basically the sequal to Infinite Crisis. It will be $2.50 per comic.

As for your question on Supergirl. Take a look at the solicitations for Legion of Superheroes. Its relaunching at #17 as Supergirl and the Legion of Superheroes, kind of an homage to the old Superboy and the Legion stuff from years ago. Seems there always has to be a member of that group with the Legion.

[Seadevil]

Also, for more "geek" info on this :p , prior to Crisis, when Grayson finally did decide on his Nightwing personae, during a discussion with...someone (I forget who was in the room/balcony at the time. Bruce? The new Robin? Kent?) he did comment that it was a nod to Superman, because Supes was like an uncle to him (Old Silver/Golden Age comics of "World's Finest"). Those costumes were, of course, lossely based by Superman on Batman and Robin's own costumes. Of course, this origin changed after Crisis.

Just to clarify a little more (I am the Geek Supreme! :p), It was the Judas Contract arc when Dick made the leap to Nightwing. It was Deathstroke's ex-wife and Jericho that were around, but they were downstairs so Dick's explination was an inner monologue kinda thing.

Post-Crisis, it generally remained the same. Supes was explaining that on Krypton there was a masked man that fought for the people called Nightwing. Dick was inspired by the story and adopted the name.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Infinite Crisis topic. :D

[Gold Rush]

I thought 52 would focus on different heroes and villains thereby not forcing everyone to buy everything. Then again this is Crossover MeaninglessMurderRapeRampage, so I could be wrong.

Of course they don't "force" readers to buy anything, but then you miss all the subtle details. :p Damn their capatilistic hides! :P

As for your question on Supergirl. Take a look at the solicitations for Legion of Superheroes.

See, that is an interesting development of itself that could throw a monkey-wrench in my PG hypothesis, at least for the short term (when "52" ends.) I have only just read JSA: Classified 1-3; haven't pinned down an issue 4 yet. You realize, the Legion history is still messed up, imo. Zero Hour didn't seem to settle anything, with all the re-boots of completely new storylines. I don't read Legion like I used to, but as a fan, I don't feel anything to grab onto in that series, since continuity is rather "screwed" story-telling-wise.

There was a scene is JSA:2 (3?) that brought in the Legion and implied a Laurel Gand connection. Since Supergirl, pre-crisis, was such a part of Legion history, they needed a character to replace her in continuity, so they made up Laurel/Andromeda. So, now we have no Andromeda in the current set of Legion stories (at least to my limited present knowledge) yet Supergirl joins the leap to "One Year ahead (or 1,001 years to be exact), kinda makes me think they are gonna re-establish the Supergirl of the future myth and possibly conveniently forget Laurel Gand (although I remember one recent story Andromeda and Supergirl did meet, although that now seems to be a recent ret-con.) This could put off any potential confrotation with Powergirl and Supergirl for at least until "52" runs out. It could also be a way to "trick" the laws of nature, by Supergirl, and escape into another time, either on purpose or by accident.

Nightwing

I coulda sworn there was someone in that room with him; it wasn't thought bubbles and it was a full page or two of dialogue. But, it's been a long time since I've read that issue, so I'll trust the Doctor. :)

And I never knew about his Post-Crisis Origin ala name. It's nice they at least tried to keep some of the Pre-Crisis/Silver Age elements in there.

======================================

Gold Rush

[Seadevil]

Small bit of an update:

Just finished the newest Teen Titans issue, Red Star isn't dead. He melted the ice he was covered in with his powers. Pantha, Bushido, and Wildebeest are still pretty dead though.

[cassidy]

death to supa girl...again...I hope

all hail power girls breast :D

in-short: I hope they keep power girl around after this whole mess

[Esbat]

To be fair though...

All those heroes were pretty bottom-of-the-barrel material. Black Condor learned to fly by watching condors fly. I wish I was making that up. Human Bomb got his powers by drinking a new form of liquid explosive so the Nazi's couldn't get it. Phantom Lady... Well, she was just lame.

Oh, and Superman got owned by Bats. :chuckle:

Boobs are not lame.

[AfterglowNoMore]

Boobs are not lame.
God I've missed having you around.:D

[Gold Rush]

Boobs are not lame.

I hate to say it, but that's probably the main reason I am gonna miss Phantom Lady; since she is one of the most extreme gals that shows off the most skin in comics. :)

And it woulda been nice to have a Phantom Lady/Phantom Girl (LSH) crossover one day. :)

========================================

Gold Rush

[Joe Schmoe]

Has anyone else been reading Supergirl and Batman/Superman lately? I'm not sure if Loeb is just writing things that takes place in a different time table then everything that is going on in the other books currently, or its in fact continuity mistakes.

For one, Supergirl #4, spoiler I guess. Fight takes place in the destroyed JLA headquarters, and Martian Manhunter pops up.

Then for Batman/Superman Mr. Myx(etc) is revealed as the head evil mastermind behind the stuff going on in the title. (As well as the Joker, which I guess is still possible.) But hasn't that guy, Myx, been a good guy lately?

[Solario]

Mr. Myx turning really evil sounds like a callback to Alan Moore's excellent "Whatever Happened to the World of Tomorrow?" (which will always be the definitive Superman story for me.)

[Meltman]

BIG Spoiler
Saw this in the poster at my comic shop for the Infinite Crisis action figures, and saw it on this internet: Click here (http://www.stomptokyo.com/scott/blog/C4482399/E120379863/index.html)

Yes, that is Superboy Prime looking like he was fused with the Anti-Monitor or something.

[coldcut]

You know, on a lot of levels, superhero comics bear a lot more resemblance to soap operas than they do anything else. I mean, somebody's pregnant, someone gets married, someone else isn't really dead after all...

[Solario]

BIG Spoiler

Reminds me somewhat of "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" with the Luthor-Brainiac "team-up."

(PS. What's the best font color to cover up quotes?)

[Meltman]

(PS. What's the best font color to cover up quotes?)[/COLOR]

None of the presets work. I usually just crop it out and leave enough in to tell which post it was.

[Gold Rush]

You know, on a lot of levels, superhero comics bear a lot more resemblance to soap operas than they do anything else. I mean, somebody's pregnant, someone gets married, someone else isn't really dead after all...

Pretty much correct, here. But there is good Soap Opera, Bad Soap Opera, Grand Soap Opera (Cosmic, "Operatic"?), and Ugly Soap Opera. You get different doses, depending on writers.

Which, reminds me, a Soap Opera, is something you can obsess over. Something you can't put down. This type of thing, for me personally, was done best during the last Batman/Detective Comics story-arc Pre-Crisis. It involved Jason Todd. I don't mean Post-Crisis, where they changed everything and made him look like a whiny street punk who stole the Batmobile's hubcaps (which should NEVER have happened!) That storyline when they FIRST introduced Jason Todd was very great and emotional. I kept thinking how it was SO much like a Soap Opera. It had many elements (but no pregnancy). Granted, Jason's origin story at the time was more like Dick Grayson's, but they did change enough elements and modernize it to make it unique and actually like Jason Todd.

=================================================

Gold Rush

[Gold Rush]

BIG Spoiler


Comment :

I *knew* he'd get out! Bastiches! It was really too soon and too sudden to just end his involvement. Pfeh! Now they tarnish his "good" image even further! :grr: Still, perhaps at the end, he may redeem himself. However, I place Vegas odds on that at only an optimistic 15%. I am now wondering if the "Anti-Monitor" isn't something "more" than Alex Luthor suspects. Again, just speculating.

Interesting they've included the new Mongul (his son). I know he just appeared in Green Lantern, but Crisis as well? Hmm...============================================ ====

Gold Rush

[Meltman]

Interesting they've included...

================================================

Gold Rush

I think he appeared very briefly in Issue 1 when Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman were talking on the moon.

[Joe Schmoe]

DC has the covers of the first four 52 comics up. Just incase anyone was interested :)

[Sebastian Kain]

So I went and brought the Crisis stuff, throw back issues I believe..(like the original one, the one that is cheaper)

Pretty interesting read thus far... :)

[Joe Schmoe]

Wow wow wow.. The final member of Outsiders One Year Later was revealed. Completely.. caught me off guard. Its Captain Boomerang II, the original's son. There's also some chick with an afro, lightning streaks down her costume, which I guess is some new Black Lightning. Is she new? Certainly never seen or heard of her before.

[Meltman]

She's Thunder (II), daughter of Black Lightning (member of the original Outsiders). (And her powers are basically density control)

[Joe Schmoe]

Ahhh, so, is this the same daughter they've had in the team already with a new look? Or he had two daughters?

[Meltman]

Only one, that I know of...

[Joe Schmoe]

http://www.mykey3000.com/cosmicteams/outsiders/_docs/thunder.html

This chick. She's been in this new Outsiders.

[Meltman]

Well, her first costume does....suck....I could see them going with more of an homage kinda thing, seeing as they have Katana back in there and all...

And I meant "only one daughter, that I know of". Sorry if that was confusing.

[Joe Schmoe]

Gotcha. :) Its just in most comics, she's looked.. white for the most part. I wonder if they'll just pretend that was never the case and bring in this, or this is part of an effect from the Crisis :lol: Effecting continuity.

[Powerhelm]

So does that mean Michael Jackson will be black in the DC universe?

[Meltman]

Gotcha. :) Its just in most comics, she's looked.. white for the most part. I wonder if they'll just pretend that was never the case and bring in this, or this is part of an effect from the Crisis :lol: Effecting continuity.

I think it's because they put a wig on her...(for the blonde look).

Apparently she spent that one year growing out an afro.

[cassidy]

just read issue 5 and yea the toy that was shown ( wont name which toy not to spoil it) on the other thread was in this one. :D

melt you might have an idea of what it is :D

[Kinetix]

Supergirl stated that she wasn't black. Talking about her dad, something like "Black lightning, i get it. He's black and shoots lightning. Not her"

And IC 5 was great. I loved seeing Red Son superman.

[Meltman]

I think she was refering to the lightning part, Kin.

And Spoiler:
In the new Outsiders issue she's posing undercover in an African Military.

As for issue 5: So, Lois is dead. Didn't see that comming. :rolleyes: Nice touch with the Red/Blue Supermen. And I see Wally West is still alive. For now. How did he know to call him Superboy Prime though?

[Seadevil]

In the new Outsiders issue she's posing undercover in an African Military.

As for issue 5: So, Lois is dead. Didn't see that comming. :rolleyes: Nice touch with the Red/Blue Supermen. And I see Wally West is still alive. For now. How did he know to call him Superboy Prime though?

Notice they don't say WHICH Flash that is that show up,by the way... That may explain why he knows it's Superboy 'Prime'

[Gold Rush]

::Insert secret decoder message that was written in previous message:::

Well, this is true, and I DID catch that vagueness, however, I am still not writing Wally off. I think the rumor is a smoke-screen. I don't think any Flash is dead (unless they can somehow kill off Barry twice). Actually, I am 70% sure that IS Barry...or a merge of Barry and Wally (notice the belt. Looks like it starts pointed downwards and then it goes straight across, like Barry's. Also, the ear-pieces are more like barry's. Also, the page reminded me of Barry's little Asian side-adventure during the original Crisis that was added in later of him rescuing a whole world with an Asian-Flash on that world).

More comments

LOTS of Superman appearances from Elseworlds. The medieval Superman, perhaps even the "original" Superman directly behind Kal-L where no one can see him (small boots).

As to Earth-2 Wonder Woman. I always remembered this while it seemed like most folks forgot about her "godhood/citizenship" into Mt. Olympus with her husband. It was a short, but touching scene. Sad that she is totally gone. I do they drew her to fill her uniform out a bit more and not be so...old and skinny, but it may've been a needed touch. This also solidified for me how much I miss the invisible plane/jet.

Not sure why Flamebird is on Earth-2, unless there is something about her origin I never heard of, which is entirely possible because I don't know the character too much other than she was a Teen Titan who had a crush on Robin/Dick Grayson in his "showing off his legs" uniform.

Still making up my mind about Blue Beetle, but not a bad showing. Booster may also be in for some respect, although he is picked up to show off the more "gaudier/media" side of the DCU in the new "52" series. At this point, I am not sure is DC plans a more serious/heroic direction for him or what.

Car-Crashing Superman homage was good. A bit off topic; Coldcut's Supes-1939 post #4 has a bewildered guy holding his head and running away from the earthquake of Krypton, much like the guy on the famous car-crashing Action Comics looked like. :p

Odds are lowered for me with Lois Lane-2's death about Superman-2's survival. The series ain't over, but we will have to see. Meanwhile, I can see a possible sequel if Superboy-Prime stays alive. I hinted earlier at this, but it is interesting how the "Anti-Monitor" equipment seems to take over heroes, especially emotionally charged ones (although the ONLY example of this I have is "Hawk" Hank Hall). There may be something to this.

I am sorta disappointed with taking a "real" photo of the earth and digitally copying it to look like multiple earths. Artists are so lazy nowadays! :p Heck, if you are gonna do *that*, just draw one earth and do the digitizing copy magic! sheesh!

Seems like everyone (the Marvels) are being called into their respective worlds. I kinda like the neat explanation about Breach and Kyle Rayner would've originally been from Earth-8. There is a list on the net that I can't track of all the parallel earths. Earth 3 is Crime Syndicate. I remember thinking Earth-S (Shazam!) fills in Eath 4's spot and Earth-X (Freedom Fighters) fills in Earth-5. Maybe I am wrong on this assumption. Earth-C may be in there (amazingly enough, even though it's vastly different) being 6 or 7, but I doubt it. I am thinking the Charlton line of heroes comes from one of these. The other, I am not sure about.

Actually, I may've spotted a continuity hole, unless Earth is the "be-all" and this multi-verse thing is localized to it (which it ain't). Shouldn't Kyle Rayner go "poof" in a blue light back to...Earth-8? I am thinking this is purely a writer's accident and not intentioned.

Power Girl! Power Girl! Power Girl!

I have to say, looking at the future issues of comics, the One Year Later JSA stuff and some things in this issue, I may have to recant on my dire prediction of Power Girl. Mind you, this ain't over until the rather large rotund female stops her catterwalling and for me, that would be after "52" finishes, because who KNOWS what can come afterwards or if Crisis will be truly finished. I will say, all those that are on the Anti-Monitor tower have the BEST chances of actually surviving this thing. One quick theory is that the tower protects/shields them from the changes to the multi-verse and possibly grounds them on the current Earth. So, that "smirk" may've been bad Wizard reporting and the artist was just smiling from the first question, which carried over into the next. Heck, he may've kept the smile because the comic readers he was with were throwing out wild curve balls and he was giddy with their confusion and worries and interest in the comic.

Anyway, I'll blame Wizard.

================================================

Gold Rush

[Gold Rush]

As a side note, speaking of Multiverses, Wizard did bring up a pro/con arguement for and against them that I read. Actually, I have my own thoughts about this as well. I figured this may be the best place to post about it as any.

First, let's briefly cover my view on "No". When Crisis was started in the Eighties, it was a way to clean house of so many confusing and conflicting plots and stories in DC. Actually, *I* got them all, but it was feared, and rightfully so, many new readers would not get it and feel alienated from DC. It would be too much to grasp. Exposition would be too long explaining the "whys" and "wherefores". Actually, this has worked. This has kept many people in and new ones coming.

No my "Yes" bit. I do believe in the Kobyashi Maru scenario! Umm, what I "meant" to say, I think there is room for a Multiverse. These stories, to me, added more reality than say Marvel's. I never read the Daily Bugle or how Spider-Man was such a nemesis, but I could imagine another dimension or parallel world where Superman and Batman actually *do* exist.

And actually, in a practical sense, we still are living in the multiverse, both DC and Marvel. Think of all the "Elseworlds" novels. Sure, flights of fantasy. Think of how Marvel embraced their "new universe" after DC discontinued theirs. Then think of the crossover books between DC and Marvel characters that have popped up. In some, such parallel worlds are not mentioned, in others, it is pointed out. So, the Avengers meet the JLA, but "somehow" this is not a parallel world? Of course, some may point out it's actually another dimension or even a "parallel dimension" and to this, realistically, I ask, "What is the BIG difference?" Now, of course, we don't want to confuse readers with an Alan Scott, a Hal Jordan, and even a Kyle Rayner, but look what we have without the parallel worlds. We still have Alan Scott, Hal Jordan, and Kyle Rayner. Sure, each man is different, not like Clark Kent-1 and Clark Kent-2, but it looks like readers have either been underestimated (in my view) to handle the parallel dillemma because, they can really tell the difference between Alan, Hal, and Kyle and so on.

Here's another comic discrepancy. DC buys Wildstorm. Bully for them. What do they do with the characters? They don't incorporate them into the DC world, they just leave them as they are on their own world under the Wildstorm aegis. I am not sure if this is stipulated under Jim Lee's contract to keep the worlds seprate or if he is acting under the good graces of DC and can still do whatever stories he wants. But notice, the WILDCats have met the JLA. Even now, DC's Captain Atom is adrift lost in a mini-series SET in the Wildstorm universe and guess what subject they are talking about? Well, yes, they are talking about the WILDCats and Majestic :P , but I meant to *point* you toward the discussion of MULTIPLE EARTHS!

You see, within publishing houses, their is still a version of "Parallel earths" (dimensions) going on. So what that DC has streamlined? Now we are getting Superman meeting Majestic. Batman meeting Captain America and more (possibly Namor meeting Roman. Hawkeye meeting Shaft (Image's Archer) and more silly pairings). While this is a GREAT thing, doesn't this sort of put the "No to the Multiverse" camp at a disadvantage? Most readers grasp that Marvel and DC are not the same company (or do so fairly quickly if they are too young to do so). They are okay with this and understand it.

In the long run, I am not against DC cleaning up their house years ago (even back then I wasn't too rabid about it). Something did needed to be done. Actually, I do not see the multiverse coming back in any real substantive form (although I may be surprised). There may be a door left open, but for "Elseworld" stuff and similiar things. I would think that going back to the way it was would not be a great idea (again, if it does, i could be wrong in this assumption, but the writing would have to be good). Univerally, the status quo will either stay the same or change subtly. Individually, things may be different that have NO bearing about the multiverse for each individual hero.

Ah, deluded Alex Luthor, if only you were wiser and read your comic books more, then you would see a multiverse already in place. Instead, you've lost your 8o's perm and your sense of goodness. Here's hoping Bippo and Detective chimp cram bananas up places the sun don't shine...and I mean REALLY deep and not so enjoyable for you, you villian!


===========================================

Gold Rush

[Kinetix]

CLIFFS! :p

[Joe Schmoe]

Spoiler for IC #5

http://www.superdickery.com/dick/181.html

Didn't realise this at all when you take it out of context :D

[Gaia]

You do realize that picture is somewhat a variant on the original Superman cover just at a different angle and with a few other people thrown in. Right? Tell me I'm right. :D Look how he's holding the car and somewhat of the shape.

[Chain Lightning]

You do realize that picture is somewhat a variant on the original Superman cover just at a different angle and with a few other people thrown in. Right? Tell me I'm right. :D Look how he's holding the car and somewhat of the shape.

Yes, its what they call a 'cover swipe' and it's of Action Comics #1. They did one of Crisis on Infinite Earths also.

http://www.io.com/~woodward/chroma/crimages/cr07.jpg


I can't find an online reference for IC #5, but its the panel where Lois dies and he's holding her.

[Kinetix]

http://superman.ws/tales2/action1/page-1.jpghttp://www.superdickery.com/images/dick/infinite.jpg

[Joe Schmoe]

Ahhh.. And suddenly, the Maddox comic cover makes a whole lot more sense :D

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/action9.gif

[Chain Lightning]

Yeah, any of the classic comic covers are going to be swiped several times. Some of the ones I can remember off the top of my head are:
Action#1
Superman#1
Fantastic Four #1
X-Men #1
Amazing Fantasy #15

[Meltman]

The Wolverine cover where the Hulk's reflected in his claws. (can't remember the issue number) I've seen that a bunch of times.

[Solario]

The most swiped picture I've seen is probably from DeMatteis and Giffen's JLA:

EDIT: Dangnabbit. here. (http://www.comicboards.com/dcb/attachments/050714023023/JLI%20001.jpg)

Hell they even swiped it themselves a time or two.

That being said, I don't recall anyone ever swiping Superman #1 or X-men 1.

McFarlane's (first, I believe) Spiderman cover has been swiped a couple of times though.

[Meltman]

Giant Size X-Men #1 though, you see that repeated.

(And that website doesn't allow direct linking, but I know which one you mean.)

[Masked Revenger]

You mean this:

http://www.ilpotereelagloria.it/images/immagini/JusticeLeague_001.jpg

Chris

[Kinetix]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5a/Deadpool11.jpg
That was a fun issue.

[Chain Lightning]

The Wolverine cover where the Hulk's reflected in his claws. (can't remember the issue number) I've seen that a bunch of times.

Hulk #340. I had mine signed by Peter David last year at Dragoncon.

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/4646/p10100100vb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Meltman]

Yeah, that's the one. (It's a red x though)

[Chain Lightning]

What's a red x?

[Solario]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ea/Red_X.jpg

Seriously though, when a picture is not working on the net you are usually shown a white box with a red x inside it.

[Chain Lightning]

My picture doesn't work?

[Meltman]

Wasn't then. Is now. (Probably just some minor problems with one of imageshack's servers or something.)

[Joe Schmoe]

Wow, I didn't see that death coming. But I'm not really saddened like I should be.. Liked the character.. But.. *shrug* It got no reaction from me

[D'Arkaine]

makes me wonder if the copyright lawsuit had anything to do with it.

[Joe Schmoe]

There was a law suit? Linkage?

[D'Arkaine]

basically the family of the original creators own the copyright to superboy and won a lawsuit against DC about it (no front on the one for superman)

I have read about this at newsarama and comicbookresources.com

http://www.newsarama.com/general/smallville.html

[Druid]

sofar, I've only been interested in the villain's story. Like Catman and Deadshot. Otherwise I haven't payed too much attention to I.C.

[Masked Revenger]

basically the family of the original creators own the copyright to superboy and won a lawsuit against DC about it (no front on the one for superman)

I have read about this at newsarama and comicbookresources.com

http://www.newsarama.com/general/smallville.html

I don't understand why they are suing at all... it doesn't appear that they want money from the use of superboy in the comics, they seem to want to stop DC from using him at all. Does anyone know why?

Chris

[AfterglowNoMore]

So anybody pick up Battle for Bludhaven or the Villain's United Special?

[Joe Schmoe]

Picked up both, but only read Villains United for now. :D Very nice

"Anything you can do, I can do better!"

[cassidy]

yea I got the villains United special. I'm ready to see what happens next in IC 7 :D

[Joe Schmoe]

Okay, just read the final part. I now totally forgive them for the lack of Joker during this whole thing :D

[Druid]

did.. did uhh Black Adam punch his fingers through Psycho Pirates head? I forget if that's his name.. I think it is.

[Meltman]

did.. did uhh I forget if that's his name.. I think it is.

Yes. Pushed his mask all the way through from the front.

[AfterglowNoMore]

...
What page is that on? I've looked over it and the only person I see him killing is Amazo. Also, what are the two items that are on the beach toward the end, in the panel with the two kids?

[Meltman]

Issue 6

Page...19 I think (The page before Superboy Prime talks to him.)

[Kinetix]

So glad Alex Luthor got killed, I wish the GLs would kill SuperBoy-Prime too.

[Randomus]

I basically thought IC, as a whole, was terrible.

But at least we're getting a spotlight on some of the actually interesting characters in the DCU with 52, so that's a positive that came out of the whole debacle.

[Kinetix]

I actually liked it.

[Meltman]

Um, yeah. I liked it too.

[Joe Schmoe]

My only complaint about the whole thing is they completely ruined Bart Allen for me. Impulse was the character to pull me into the DCU in the first place, and this IC finally put an end to the awesomeness that was him. :( Geoff Johns has a thing against him or something, as he was the one who started ruining him (for me at least) back in Teen Titans..

Other then that, I did enjoy it, most definatly. :) That thing with the Joker was complete awesomeness, and its great that we see why Lex would let the Joker work with him at times.

[Gold Rush]

The Long Reply (Not the Long Good Bye)
---------------------------------------------------

So, now that this thing is over (basically), I guess I can let loose with some spoilers, but I will try to tone it down. I also missed out on comics recently as well as this forum and CoH.

Okay, just spent Five Minutes looking through my messy apartment for the last few issues and I can't find them. They should be somewhere, but at least this cuts my written retort and saves you folks some eyestrain. :P

Actually, my personal opinion of the series, now that it has ended, echoes Randomus' somewhat; Now that it's over, I am kinda of the mind of "eh?" with the patented shoulder-shrug added in. Now, this doesn't mean I thought the whole series as a waste. I think some strives were taken and generally it's a good story, but the outcome....it kinda makes me feel mixed; like nothing *really* has changed, just some of the periphiry (sp?) but not the core(s). There was some "heart", but maybe it was too gimmicky? It's hard to explain, but I definitely think this series worked better with playing on all our wants on a monthly basis but may not work out well as a collected graphic novel in one read to readers of the future. Some of the ending was satisfying, but mostly... "eh".

Ahh! To Hell and Blazes, I need reference material!

(:::Looks for 5 more minutes and finds the missing issues:::)

I think Wonder Woman came into her own in this series rather nicely, especially after the Maxwell Lord Fiasco. One notices she was the one to put herself between both Supermen and calm them down (as per Earth-2's Wonder Woman's coaxing). She again repeated this "Voice of calm/Reason-Saving Angel) with Batman wanting to kill Alexander Luthor. *THAT* scene was one of the scenes that had me saying, "Wow!", to myself. (The other was the re-appearance/transformation of "Breach" (I forget his name) into Captain Atom. Glad he is back but since I am reading his appearance over in the Wildstorm Universe, I was a bit shocked. :)

Actually, the galactic scale of putting worlds together worked rather nicely. I did like the menagerie of worlds shown, some fantasy, other Elseworlds, and some taken from real worlds (although Earth-0, Bizzaro world, was not really in it's own dimension...) I don't really know why they gave DC's Old West heroes their own Earth, when they are a part of the main history, but I guess it's an excuse to throw them in the spotlight (of course, this could construed as unfair for all the WW1 and mostly WW2 DC Heroes; they should picket!) So far, there have been numerous appearances of characters that I have trouble naming (especially since the picture is small). Surprised to se Stanley and his Monster (Joe Schmoe and his Monster? :D ) and Rex the Wonder Dog. Heck, I was even surprised Mad Dog made a panel with other gun-totting heroes!

I still kinda think Superboy-Prime and Alex Luthor were treated poorly, not in the "they recieved their just deserts (sp?), but how they were made into baddies. Mind you, it was a cool ride, but it does harken, for me, a dark turn in comics away from optimism (since they were good the last time we saw them in the first Crisis).

I will miss the original Superman and Lois, too. The "good" that came of it is that they are now "officially" part of the DC Universe as a whole, given Power Girl and that they had an impact on the World (Universe) and will be remembered. So, it's not a complete loss. Conner/Superboy was never a favorite character, but he was coming into his own. I sense/read into certain things that "Superboy" will live on in Superman, since now we get tidbits of a Superboy in Smallville; that part is no longer ignored/written off.

Another "neat" moment (although I did not say wow), was the two-page spread of the 2 Superman taking on Doomsday. Good stuff. And of course, the last standoff on the Green Lantern Living Planet.

Like Joe, I thought the ending of Alex was neat, but also, it kinda threw away the character off handedly. He got his end, but kinda happened too fast.

Oh, and I am glad the Invisible Jet/Plane is back. I assume it was a gift from Earth-2's Wonder Woman, but not positive.

Okay, let's go over my questions and the end spread. Not just limited to Infinite Crisis, but the off-shoots as well.

- I am sensing there will be one OMAC who will be an independent entity/hero. Given Kirby homage-history and the spread.

- The reforming of the Freedom Fighters : This has me scrathing my head going, "Huh?" Some are seen on the spread, but also "the Battle for Bludhaven" series. Okay, so Father Time most likely will be the new Uncle Sam (tranchcoat and all), but WHY makenew versions of the Human Bomb and Phantom Lady? You KILL them off, I don't expect a copy to replace them; I expect NEW characters. It's sometimes forgivable if they are a son/daughter, but neither are. Aren't there people at DC that can come up with a "fresh" concept. I mean, why throw out a character if you are just going to replace it with the SAME character (or near same)? Not a good beginning.

- Okay, Vixen is back, but I don't know who that vaguely Starboy/LSH-looking hero is to her left.

- Looks like the new "Seven Soldiers of Victory" will get some "show" time somewhere. Still have to read the whole series!

- Just as I predicted but with a new wrinkle in the Shazam family, Captain Marvel takes over the "Wizard's" role (albeit more active). And Captain Marvel Junior loses his blue costume and the "Junior" at the end of his name. I am worried for Billy Batson's social life, but maybe it will all work out?

- Don't really know who the new Batwoman is from this picture. Doesn't seem like Kathy (Katie?) Keane. If anything, looks a bit like Barbra. It could be the new Batgirl changing costumes, given that the ending of her series pretty much was ambiguous but had her almost costume-less.

- The Martian (Manhunter) gets a new look. I will miss the skin, but it's probably about time for an updated look.

- I really don't know HOW Alan Scott lost an eye. Anyone know? And, shades of Nick Fury! He's the White King in Checkmate "One Year Later"! I am surprised to see King Faraday in there as well (old DC spy character). I still don't quite understand why Beatiz DaCosta ("Fire") is in the group and why she was changing costumes between an old one in "Villians United" and her new one (AND her personality has gotten very cold, although this may be more because Amanda Waller is holding something over her head). I might give this series a try, although I am most likely in the minority.

Eh, that's enough reading for you guys for now. I'll post more about the series and last one-shots later. But yeah, I do agree Green Arrow's new role is really kick and interesting.

================================================== ==
Gold Rush

[Randomus]

You know, I didn't notice Alan Scott's missing eye. That is weird, where did you see that? He still had it in the last issue of JSA when Jade came to visit him from THE SPIRIT WORLD and he came out of his coma.

[Gold Rush]

You know, I didn't notice Alan Scott's missing eye. That is weird, where did you see that? He still had it in the last issue of JSA when Jade came to visit him from THE SPIRIT WORLD and he came out of his coma.

It is also in the new run of "Checkmate", specifically, issue 1. You see him wearing an eyepatch in his civilian identity and in his hero identity, it turns a glowing green in his mask. That particular shot/art of him in his hero togs is in the last 2-3 pages of "JSA : Classified" issue 11 "The Fall & Rise of Vandal Savage", which is set "One Year Later".

Oh, and that's another thing I am sorta peeved about Crisis, they killed off Jade the Babe. Pretty sad for Alan, now he lost both children. I think his wife, (both his wives?) have died as well. Not positive on that. I also feel her death wasn't that meaningful and only served to power Rayner into a new series.

I try to give Rayner chances, but he still is not growing on me. Don't like him. And this is yet another reason not to like him. :/

================================================== ======

Gold Rush

[Solario]

No way, they killed off Jade AND Oblivion recently? Weak.

And though I like Kyle, there's a reason that the WiR term is named after an event in his series.

[coldcut]

Random tangent: one of the more brilliant things that James Robinson did in Starman (unintentionally or no) was to make sure that Jack Knight was probably never going to buy it under some else's reign. Gave the source of his powers to another major hero, did in Ted Knight in a sad but fitting and heroic way and left Opal City under the protection of some very competent people. (Many of whom have since been killed off, but I digress.)

Though I wish he'd let Matt ODare stick around for a little while.

[AfterglowNoMore]

No way, they killed off Jade AND Oblivion recently? Weak.

And though I like Kyle, there's a reason that the WiR term is named after an event in his series.
As far as I know Obsidian is still alive, he was really evil for a long time, but I think the JSA "cured" him of it. Unless it's slipping my memory, Todd's still alive.

[Randomus]

Random tangent: one of the more brilliant things that James Robinson did in Starman (unintentionally or no) was to make sure that Jack Knight was probably never going to buy it under some else's reign. Gave the source of his powers to another major hero, did in Ted Knight in a sad but fitting and heroic way and left Opal City under the protection of some very competent people. (Many of whom have since been killed off, but I digress.)

Though I wish he'd let Matt ODare[/Spoiler] stick around for a little while.
I liked Starman a lot. And not just because The World-Famous Elongated Man was in it.

Jack Knight's retirement and Ted Knight's death was was quite well-handled, I agree.

I'll have to check out that Checkmate thing. I've always liked Alan.

[Solario]

As far as I know Obsidian is still alive, he was really evil for a long time, but I think the JSA "cured" him of it. Unless it's slipping my memory, Todd's still alive.

Obsidian. That was his name! I just remembered it was a "Ob-something."

And Starman was brilliant. I wish Harris had stayed on to the very end though, but the other artists were definently not bad. (Did you guys know that he originally based Jack's looks on himself?)

[Joe Schmoe]

- The reforming of the Freedom Fighters : This has me scrathing my head going, "Huh?" Some are seen on the spread, but also "the Battle for Bludhaven" series. Okay, so Father Time most likely will be the new Uncle Sam (tranchcoat and all), but WHY makenew versions of the Human Bomb and Phantom Lady? You KILL them off, I don't expect a copy to replace them; I expect NEW characters. It's sometimes forgivable if they are a son/daughter, but neither are. Aren't there people at DC that can come up with a "fresh" concept. I mean, why throw out a character if you are just going to replace it with the SAME character (or near same)? Not a good beginning.

Yeah, I also see a new Atom and possibly a new Creeper. Plus the new Blue Beetle.. *much eye rolling*

[Meltman]

Actually, I liked the new Blue Beetle... (and the old Blue Beetle wasn't the first Blue Beetle)

This isn't exactly a new thing at DC to give new people old hero and villain identities...(Or Marvel for that matter...)

[Masked Revenger]

Okay, so I finally picked up the last two issues of this series. Pretty good, as far as I'm concerned. I'm hoping they do a series that actually lets us know the history of New Earth, like they did after the original Crisis.

The only thing I am sad about is: the death of Superboy. I liked him.

I am confused about one thing, though, and this is probably more a sign of how much I'm out of the loop.

When did they rebuild the Green Lantern Corps? I was under the impression that Kyle was the only GL until Hal cam back. Was I completly missinformed about that?

Chris

[Meltman]

M R, pick up the TPB "Green Lantern: The Power of Ion" and the series Green Lantern Corps: Recharge. Those will explain it.

But the basic gist: Kyle gained extreme superpowers, then gave them up to recreate the Guardians and relight the central power battery on Oa. Then the GLs that were able to return went out and recruited a bunch more.

[Masked Revenger]

M R, pick up the TPB "Green Lantern: The Power of Ion" and the series Green Lantern Corps: Recharge. Those will explain it.

But the basic gist: Kyle gained extreme superpowers, then gave them up to recreate the Guardians and relight the central power battery on Oa. Then the GLs that were able to return went out and recruited a bunch more.

Ah, got it. Cool, thanks. :)

Also, is it just me, or is that G'nort on the cover next to Guy? :D

Chris

[Meltman]

Also, is it just me, or is that G'nort on the cover next to Guy? :D

Chris

I believe it is, yes.

[Masked Revenger]

Okay, so I've had time to think and digest and looking over that last page, I got some things to say.

There's someone in the Flash costume. If it's not Wally or Barry, and its not Bart, then who? And how? Jay is still, so its not him. Someone new?

New Batgirl costume looks cool, I like it.

Black Atom is a hero now?

As someone else pointed out, OMAC is there, looks like one survived.

Also, I dig the white Cap Marvel costume.

Aquaman gets yet another new look. Let's see what they can do with him this time.

Robin gets a new look, and he and Nightwing are both there, but I was under the impression they were both with Bats during the 52.

Lobo? WTF is he doing there? Don't get me wrong, I love this character, but he is NOT a hero of any sort.

Booster Gold, back in action! I love it!

And finally, Captain Atom is back! WOOO!!!!!

Chris

[Randomus]

Black Adam is a hero in the loosest sense of the word. He basically does what HE thinks is right, HOW he wants to, WHEN he wants to, laws of man be damned. For more about that, read JSA. You won't regret it.

The new Aquaman has been in Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis for the last few months. It's not the Aquaman we know and... love.

Lobo pretends to be a hero sometimes. See the JLU episode The Hereafter. ;)

[Masked Revenger]

The new Aquaman has been in Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis for the last few months. It's not the Aquaman we know and... love.


That's interesting. I rather liked the hook-handed King of Atlantis with the long hair and beard myself.

Chris

[Randomus]

That's interesting. I rather liked the hook-handed King of Atlantis with the long hair and beard myself.

Chris
As did I. But he hasn't been around since Aquaman got that water hand.

The old Aquaman IS in the new Aquaman series, but in a very different form.

[Kinetix]

Is he the old dude with the tentacle beard? I haven't read the latest of the new ones, sortof gave up.