Travel power question [Archive] - City of Heroes Forums

Remianen

04-18-2005, 10:56 PM

Well, according to the research I've done (both in and out of game), I don't plan to ever get Fly. I'm going to 5 or 6 slot Hover since it works out better. 6 slotted Hover is faster than 3 slotted Fly PLUS it has no accuracy debuff and actually gives a small defense bonus. Generally speaking, my melee go with Superjump and my blasters/defenders are built with superspeed (since they all have Hasten) and hover but no Fly. I haven't tried Teleport yet though, since it seems to be a little too much work for marginal personal benefit when compared with SJ/SS/Hover. I may try it with one of my defenders though, knowing I can respec out of it whenever (I have 5 defenders with free respecs banked).

But as always, it comes down to what fits your character's concept best.

Jade_Dragon

04-18-2005, 11:19 PM

Uh... no. Six slotted Hover is about the same speed as unslotted Fly, maybe Fly with one slotted SO. Three slotted Fly is the cap, although that's only at level 50, and below that you can go faster with more slots.

Personally, I have Fly three slotted with my "rocket" Blue Diamond, who is supposed to be really fast. Jade Dragon has Fly three slotted as well, but one of them is Endurance, so he only has two Flight Speed SOs. I will probably continue to try and slot Blue Diamond's flying to four or five, and then when he gets near level 50, I'll take out one or two of those Flight Speeds and slot Endurance. So he'll be fast, but also more efficient. (Hopefully allowing him to fight while flying)

Jade Dragon has Hover, but Blue Diamond doesn't, so for B.D. it's more of a travel power, but J.D. often flies in combat.

coldcut

04-18-2005, 11:59 PM

Yeah, I got Code 4's flight 5 slotted (one end reducer) and this bit about hover being faster than any slotted flight is rubbish. I've seen it on the main boards, and I don't know where it's coming from. I'm easily twice as fast as the six-slotted hoverers. One SO isn't doing that. My guess is that some kinetics defender was playing a prank on someone.

And on an aside, most of the COH world has no idea how much fun blasting is after you've trained yourself to switch in and out of fly and hover. I've got a very acrobatic fighting style that most people can't match.

edit: and 4 slotted flight's the cap at level 50, but apparently it's not that much faster than 3 slotted. But I wanted Code 4 to be really fast.

Darknesse

04-18-2005, 11:59 PM

Slotting... Travel Powers? :hm:

Lorash

04-19-2005, 12:51 AM

I 3-slotted Super Jump with Olympian, and I really like the speed it gives me.

I've never gotten a flier to the point of having slots to spare in Fly, but it seems slower than unslotted SJ to me...might just be the perceptioon, though, since you're not doing a bunch of vertical movement.

Graphite

04-19-2005, 01:15 AM

IMO, slotting a travel power is a waste unless your going for combat flight. You'll get there eventual so why take things away from maxing your fire power?

Blackbat

04-19-2005, 01:29 AM

Some people care less for max effeciency and more for character concept. It's a hot topic but to each their own I say.

coldcut

04-19-2005, 01:57 AM

:jono: .........

Tarkenchi

04-19-2005, 02:02 AM

JONO!

:jono: :headbang:

Emerald Sky

04-19-2005, 02:34 AM

This would explain why my fliers are so ****ing slow...lol. I'm only using the default slot for now.

AfterglowNoMore

04-19-2005, 02:39 AM

JONO!

:jono: :headbang:
Ah, the classics.

WingedAvenger

04-19-2005, 04:50 AM

IMO, slotting a travel power is a waste unless your going for combat flight. You'll get there eventual so why take things away from maxing your fire power?
I slot out the travel powers for my characters because I like travelling as fast as I possibly can, and less travel time is a good thing. I don't want to wait until I'm level 50 before I can finally keep pace with grandma on her walker.

Remianen

04-19-2005, 08:22 AM

I stand corrected then. Most of the info I've gotten (both ingame and out) has indicated that slotting hover gives me the flight benefit I want (top flight speed is not the goal) without any real penalties (like an acc debuff or having to twist like a bard :p).

I see Darknesse and Graphite's point and agree to a certain extent. If I was going for maximum efficiency right now, I'd want no part of slotting anything but attacks and maybe targeting drone, smoke grenade, trip mine, etc. But for me, at this point it's just exploration. Seeing what things do and how things work firsthand rather than hearing about it (which, judging from the hover/fly flight speed debate, may work to my favor). Since respecs are more than just possible (they seem to be the order of the day), it's not much of an issue.

As it stands now, I plan for my characters to all have 2 travel powers. That'll probably change once I've experienced them all though. Super Jump seems to fit my tankers and scrappers to a T, though at least 1 tanker and scrapper's concepts call for super speed.

Besides, since when does it really matter what you slot in the newbie levels, assuming your character can still perform their chief duties (as in my case, can't speak for anyone else)? At 24(?), you get a "do-over" anyway, don't you? Heck, I just respecced a level 9 tanker cuz when she hit 8 (pre-I1), Unyielding wasn't the be-all, end-all it seems to be now so I dropped Provoke for it (fixed some slotting too). Just don't see the harm in a 3-slotted hover considering the fact that those 2 slots would've gone into Firebreath or Caltrops since the 5th/6th slots for fireblast/fireball are already slated for level 17/19. Won't be getting any powers worthy of slotting til 20 (Stamina) either. What's the big deal?

suburbanhell

04-19-2005, 11:48 AM

Slotting... Travel Powers? :hm:

My thoughts exactly...

I am curious to this though, many many months ago I had heard that 6-slotting Hover was a good way to go, but...that kind of seems like a waste of 5 slots to me, so is there anyone out there that can actually justify the reason to do this? :gday:

Tarberetta

04-19-2005, 12:53 PM

I have 5 slotted hover, and 3 slotted fly.

Why? Shadow shard mostly (at least for fly). My god that place is so big.

As for hover, it's my main form of defense and combat mobility. Not many scrappers fly, but I do and love it. Right now my hover is faster than sprint, and also provides a small defense bonus. Mid-air battle are alot of fun too, and I guarantee I will suprise some blasters thinking they can hoversnipe me.

I also have superspeed, that I use when I have clear ground from point a to point b, but my fly is not too far behind that.

D'Arkaine

04-19-2005, 01:58 PM

I have 6-slotted Hover on my main blaster Vindicator (nope still not trademarked by Marvel :)). It is about as fast as unslotted fly - plus defense - without an acc penalty. It is great in missions for mobility and general zone travel. (i remember faultline before I had slotted it or gotten sjump *shudder*)

Now for getting from point A to point B, I tend to speed and jump my way there. That is purely from a time standpoint.

Graphite

04-19-2005, 02:08 PM

Generally, I want to get there as fast as possible too but travel time in this game really isn't that bad. The zones are not really that big, the default sprint is quick compared to most games and doesn't drain endurance, there are also so many different ways to move and stuff travel powers are worth having on top of getting from a to b. Guess I'm still use to the travel time from daoc and still love how much better this game is. By horse it would take me a good 15 mins plus (which were on fixed roots) to travel the world. Everything was also spread out with no maps. Walking every where was also a real pain but something you had to do. Here, unless I have to cross more than two zones sprint could fit my needs. I'm definately addicted to my travel powers, but don't think I'll ever slot them.

So, whats your favorite?
For me its teleport outside of airial combat.

Mana Child

04-19-2005, 04:16 PM

So whats the distance cap with superjump and how fast can it be, I only have it 1 or 2 slotted?Can you be as fast as fly or superspeed? Well thanks in advance to you all.

Tsarmina

04-19-2005, 04:26 PM

So, whats your favorite?
For me its teleport outside of airial combat.
My favorite for the pure joy of travel is Super Jump. (Go over instead of around!...even though I still miss my mark and fall sometimes.) I think I just have the one slot with a leap enh. Combat Jumping has that defence enh in it. I took swift instead of hurdle because I wanted to be able to move about a bit quicker in missions without having to turn on sprint. Hey, I never said my logic was the smartest. *shrug*
Teleport is the most challenging for me-I fall alot, Super Speed... I get caught up on stuff though it is fun, and Flight is nice for putting on auto to travel across a zone while chatting with your friends.
:chuckle:

Mahaf

04-19-2005, 04:39 PM

I've found that Fly is an inferior travel power im almost every way, except for being able to get over things (in which it isn't really that superior). It's among the highest endurance drain of any travel power, the slowest travel power, AND has a debuff (none of the others have that I believe, though I might be wrong). I'm not talking at all character concept, I have a character who has fly, I'm just saying that just because it is fly, doesn't mean it should be 1/3 as effective as other travel powers. Makes little sense.

Jade_Dragon

04-19-2005, 05:14 PM

Some people care less for max effeciency and more for character concept. It's a hot topic but to each their own I say.

<Gives Blackbat a cigar. And maybe a dollar>

Darknesse

04-19-2005, 05:21 PM

Some people care less for max effeciency and more for character concept. It's a hot topic but to each their own I say.

Sure. You can slot your travel powers 6x each if you want. It will really be useful when you are constantly making the trip all the way back from the hospital.

Jade_Dragon

04-19-2005, 05:23 PM

[color=#ccccff]My favorite for the pure joy of travel is Super Jump. (Go over instead of around!...even though I still miss my mark and fall sometimes.) I think I just have the one slot with a leap enh.

Super Jump is just the coolest for trying to jump from rooftop to rooftop. I know a lot of people use some sort of "autojump" keybind, but personally, I prefer being able to aim my jumps.

I'm hoping to eventually get my "skill based" characters, that just have Sprint, Swift, and Hurdle, to the point where they can jump rooftops, but there's just something about leaping rooftops in a zone where the buildings are not quite so close together, or uniform in height, like Independence Port. You often have to make combinations of short and long jumps. And yeah, I miss my mark too, but that's part of the fun. :D

When travelling for speed, I actually just "bounce" along the ground, instead of gaining height and possibly taking damage, or falling into a bunch of bad guys. I think it fits Sandy better, as she respec'ed out of Super Speed to take it. I didn't like the way it made her arms and legs move so fast, and I figured she'd run in long bounding strides, instead.

The other neat thing is that I have Hover along with it, so I can often stop at the arc of my jump and look around. :D

And as for flying, I have the Hover/Fly bind set up with Jade Dragon, so he's extremely manueverable in the air. Taking off is simply a matter of pressing the up arrow, and from there I can pretty much move in the air as I would on the ground, without the Acc penalty or End cost of Fly alone.

Jade Cheetah

04-19-2005, 06:50 PM

My favorite is Superspeed! And then fly.

I love getting to a mission before my teamates. :chuckle:

When some have said they slot Superspeed with 3 slots, am I wrong in thinking that they put 3 run speed enhans in them? because I also try to slot at least 1 end redux.

Blackbat

04-20-2005, 05:52 PM

Sure. You can slot your travel powers 6x each if you want. It will really be useful when you are constantly making the trip all the way back from the hospital.

Yes, because we all know that slotting your travel powers naturally means that you die constantly and your character is gimp. :rolleyes:

My favorite is Superspeed! And then fly.

I love getting to a mission before my teamates. :chuckle:

When some have said they slot Superspeed with 3 slots, am I wrong in thinking that they put 3 run speed enhans in them? because I also try to slot at least 1 end redux.

If you have Stamina fully slotted the end drain is almost unnoticable. Slotting for run speed is probably the norm.

Jade_Dragon

04-20-2005, 07:08 PM

Darknesse

04-20-2005, 07:24 PM

No, no. It's not slotting your travel powers that makes you gimp. It is creating a concept character that, naturally, makes you gimp...
Look. It's not that it makes you gimp to do either, but if you are going to take slots that could be used in offense or defense instead, then, YES you will be weaker than someone that strictly stuck with their powers that actually help in combat. ESPECIALLY at low levels and ESPECIALLY with a blaster or something that has a low survivability in the first place (which may not be the case in this situation).

Why do you persist in trying to provoke me?

Jade_Dragon

04-20-2005, 07:28 PM

Look. It's not that it makes you gimp to do either, but if you are going to take slots that could be used in offense or defense instead, then, YES you will be weaker than someone that takes no frilly powers. ESPECIALLY with a blaster that has a low survivability in the first place.

Why do you persist in trying to provoke me?

Dunno. Why do you persist in trying to provoke me?

Masked Revenger

04-20-2005, 08:41 PM

For some reason, this conversation reminds me of this smiley.

:stick:

Chris

Jade_Dragon

04-20-2005, 08:45 PM

For some reason, this conversation reminds me of this smiley.

:stick:

Chris

If there was ever two people who personified powergamer vs. concept player, it's us.

I try and embrace the madness...

Darknesse

04-20-2005, 10:04 PM

Dunno. Why do you persist in trying to provoke me?

Huh? Note that I had nothing to say to you until, as usual you attacked me. Whatever, i'm not getting dragged into a flame war, I have better things to do.

The Widowed

04-20-2005, 10:06 PM

Why do you persist in trying to provoke me?
Oh, sure. You make some sarcastic remark about hospitals and somehow it's Jade's fault. :grr:

I'm happy with just the Fitness pool and a few slots in both Swift and Hurdle. Sure, Super Jump and Super Speed will get you to the mission faster, but neither one of those is nearly as useful once you're indoors. Fitness strikes the happy medium: Good (but not stellar) jumping and good (but not stellar) ground speed. It's just the thing for helping you get through those pesky timed missions, I think.

Yes, I said it. Timed missions. If there's any reason to add extra slots (and extra speed) to a travel power, that's it right there. Because sometimes, even Darkie's slotted-all-for-offense-and-defense guys get hit with the bad luck stick and go to the hospital (unless they wimp out and set for Heroic instead of Unyielding or Invincible). And in a timed mission, you don't want to take forever getting back to the door.

And sometimes, that fight with the three red-conning Bosses takes a little too long. Being able to move more quickly from one fight to the next and taking the occasional rest is the only way to beat a timed mission with time to spare. I've had timed missions expire and fail on me when I still had about five or seven minutes left on the clock, so the sooner you can beat the mission, the better.

Yes, because we all know that slotting your travel powers naturally means that you die constantly and your character is gimp. :rolleyes:

Can I have your babies, Blackbat? :D

Jade_Dragon

04-20-2005, 10:25 PM

Huh? Note that I had nothing to say to you until, as usual you attacked me. Whatever, i'm not getting dragged into a flame war, I have better things to do.

Heheh. But I notice that you keep posting. It takes two to argue. :D

Blackbat

04-20-2005, 11:34 PM

Can I have your babies, Blackbat? :D

Well, I'm not doing anything Friday.... :naughty:

Jade_Dragon

04-20-2005, 11:48 PM

Can I have your babies, Blackbat? :D
Well, I'm not doing anything Friday.... :naughty:

Well, at least it wasn't Esbat... :D

Emerald Sky

04-21-2005, 02:09 AM

Why do you persist in trying to provoke me?

Some people prefer to make the absolute, most efficient build, and others prefer to make a build based on concept. I'm sorta a mix of the two. But as long as each group is having fun playing their way, why does it matter to the other? I mean, really, all of the bickering between you two based on your playstyles is really getting old.

Can't the two of you just agree to disagree and move on without poking each other with rather sharp objects :)

Sable Phoenix

04-21-2005, 03:06 AM

Well, Superspeed caps out at two SOs... Fly caps at four. I don't know what Superjump caps out at, or even if it does. I never slot SS or SJ, but Fly is well worth the slots because it's quite slow otherwise. Teleport I've never used, but I hear it's pretty close to necessary to slot it for Endurance Reducers if you wish to cross an entire zone on one Endurance bar.

AfterglowNoMore

04-21-2005, 03:24 AM

Oh, sure. You make some sarcastic remark about hospitals and somehow it's Jade's fault. :grr: That was actually aimed at Blackbat, I think. And please, no flaming, that goes for everyone. And please lets not make this into a mods favor certain people thread, or a concept vs. efficiency thread, and stick to the topic. The topic is the caps on travel powers and how effective that makes them.

The Widowed

04-21-2005, 05:09 AM

Well, I understand that Swift and Hurdle don't have caps at all.... :D

Lorash

04-21-2005, 01:55 PM

I have an SO in Hurdle and 3 SO's in SJ and I'm as fast as a Superspeeder with the added bonus of about 14 stories of vertical movement.

Darknesse

04-21-2005, 03:28 PM

That was actually aimed at Blackbat, I think. And please, no flaming, that goes for everyone. And please lets not make this into a mods favor certain people thread, or a concept vs. efficiency thread, and stick to the topic. The topic is the caps on travel powers and how effective that makes them.

Yes. My point is that you will not notice enough of a difference in the travel speeds to make it worth the loss of the precious slots in your business powers. For example: You can get from 1 point of Paragon City to any other point in the game with the exception of the Shadow Shard in under 10 min (minus load times) with unslotted superjump (the back of DA to the back of the Hollows).

How much faster do you really need to be? Is using 3-5 slots in travel powers worth the 2 min you might shave off your travel time? Is it worth getting there first, just so you can say "what's taking you so long?" while you are sitting around waiting for the rest of the team anyhow?

If you are telling me that your concept requires you to slot your travel powers, fine, but the rewards are minimal, really.

Blackbat

04-21-2005, 03:41 PM

Yes. My point is that you will not notice enough of a difference in the travel speeds to make it worth the loss of the precious slots in your business powers. For example: You can get from 1 point of Paragon City to any other point in the game with the exception of the Shadow Shard in under 10 min (minus load times) with unslotted superjump (the back of DA to the back of the Hollows).

How much faster do you really need to be? Is using 3-5 slots in travel powers worth the 2 min you might shave off your travel time? Is it worth getting there first, just so you can say "what's taking you so long?" while you are sitting around waiting for the rest of the team anyhow?

If you are telling me that your concept requires you to slot your travel powers, fine, but the rewards are minimal, really.

Yes, to some people it is worth it otherwise they wouldn't do it. My point was, we all know that you're technically right in regards to the slots vs. rewards, but sometimes it is all about concept and not about what return on investment you get. After all this time I still don't think you comprehend that.

Anyway, I've said my piece and I'm done with it.

Masked Revenger

04-21-2005, 04:00 PM

When I slot my travel powers (which I mostly don't do), it's to add endurance reducers.

Chris

Tsarmina

04-21-2005, 04:05 PM

The Widowed

04-21-2005, 04:06 PM

When I slot my travel powers (which I mostly don't do), it's to add endurance reducers.

Chris
I can see that being practical, especially with Fly and Group Fly. Those are endurance hogs.

But has anyone actually gotten any practical use out of Group Fly? It seems like every Group Fly I've been a part of, eventually the leader outpaces the rest of us (even if we're Following him) and we all drop to the ground....

Mahaf

04-21-2005, 04:34 PM

Indeed. There's one slot in Super Jump anyways... so why not use it to make my leaps a bit bigger?
Though it'd be interesting to hear how people deal with Teleport. I just can't get the hang of using it. Must be some trick I'm missing or something. *shrug*
I don't really find it hard to navigate with teleport. One of my favorite travel powers, actually. Being able to hit ANY place you want with a click of my mouse is nice. :chuckle:

Also, I think the whole concept vs. efficiency argument comes from both sides. Just as much the concept's fault as it is the efficiency's. Just, most people don't really like to take the side of the efficiency's fault, because they automatically think he's the bully. Not always true, especially in the case of Darknesse, but stereotypically it's the way things go as far as who's bullying who. :rolleyes:

The Widowed

04-21-2005, 04:43 PM

I don't really find it hard to navigate with teleport. One of my favorite travel powers, actually. Being able to hit ANY place you want with a click of my mouse is nice. :chuckle:
Weren't you the one who had the rant in the old forums about random team invites blocking your teleport and causing you to fall into a bunch of purple Rikti? :D

Jade_Dragon

04-21-2005, 05:02 PM

Well, I understand that Swift and Hurdle don't have caps at all.... :D

I gotta double check that. I could swear that I've been slotting Hurdle with more and more SOs and getting NO additional height out of it.

Then again, it could be that HEIGHT is not enhanceable, and only SPEED (horizontal movement) is. But I'm pretty sure at the earlier levels I was getting more height out of more slots.

My goal is to jump the wall in Perez Park. When I do that, that's where I want my jump height. :D

The Widowed

04-21-2005, 05:08 PM

My goal is to jump the wall in Perez Park. When I do that, that's where I want my jump height. :D
I hate that wall. :mad:

So that sounds like a pretty good standard to me. :)

Jade_Dragon

04-21-2005, 05:11 PM

That was actually aimed at Blackbat, I think. And please, no flaming, that goes for everyone. And please lets not make this into a mods favor certain people thread, or a concept vs. efficiency thread, and stick to the topic. The topic is the caps on travel powers and how effective that makes them.

No, I'm pretty sure it was directed at me.

This is concept versus efficiency, though. Selection of travel powers always comes down to either whatever is most efficient, and matches other Power choices like Hover or Hasten, or your concept. Travel Powers are, in fact, one of the most identifiable parts of a concept build. (Very few people will notice whether you take Neutrino Bolt or X-Ray beam, but everyone will see you flying)

So I would say that the topic is taking whatever choice of travel power you have, for whatever reason, and making it the most efficient. Concept and efficiency, both.

Mahaf

04-21-2005, 05:12 PM

Weren't you the one who had the rant in the old forums about random team invites blocking your teleport and causing you to fall into a bunch of purple Rikti? :D
Bah! I actually DO get those a lot, but I can usually maneuver around them so I don't hit the ground. :P

Jade_Dragon

04-21-2005, 05:15 PM

I hate that wall. :mad:

So that sounds like a pretty good standard to me. :)

In case you've never stumbled onto this trick yourself, one way of getting across it that I've found is to jump into the "fork" of one of the trees near the wall, and then hold down jump so I "bounce" off the tree and over the wall. It takes practice to get the timing right, and learn exactly how far from the tree you have to start running from, but it works. On the "city" side, you can also use the covered bus stops.

I use the same trick to get to the roof of the Tech store in Steel Canyon, where there are almost always some Clockwork. There is a traffic light diagonal from the building next to the Tech store, and a tree right next to that, so I can usually hit either one of the other on the first try.

The Widowed

04-21-2005, 05:20 PM

I'm no stranger to hopping off the trees or the bus stops to get over the wall. With Hurdle, Swift, Quickness and Sprint running together, there are some places where I can run and leap off a terrace and clear the street. One time I even managed to "crowd surf" a bunch of Hellions and hopped off their heads and over the wall. I still don't know how I did that.

But whatever way you choose, it still beats having to run all the way around and find one of the two or three gates leading into the park....

Jade_Dragon

04-21-2005, 05:28 PM

I'm no stranger to hopping off the trees or the bus stops to get over the wall. With Hurdle, Swift, Quickness and Sprint running together, there are some places where I can run and leap off a terrace and clear the street. One time I even managed to "crowd surf" a bunch of Hellions and hopped off their heads and over the wall. I still don't know how I did that.

I didn't figure I was the first person to figure that out. :D

Crowd surfing, though... now that's something I haven't tried...

coldcut

04-21-2005, 05:31 PM

There is nothing that will initiate a Hellion holocaust faster than one of those bastards getting in the way of me tree jumping over that wall. I can hear their friends down the street:

"What is he- Oh my god, he's getting in Goldstar's way again! Run, run!!! Don't those fools know he's just trying to get over the wall?!"

Maveric

04-21-2005, 05:54 PM

JONO!

:jono: :headbang:

Whatever happened to Jono? Did he bang his head one too many times? I remember I once did a tribute pic for him... would post it if I had my laptop back in running order :)

-Mav

Maveric

04-21-2005, 06:01 PM

Speaking as a player who mostly uses Scrappers, by far the best Travel Power suited for this archtype is Combat Jumping/ Super Leaping.

Super Speed will drive you nuts when you get to areas like Terra Volta where there are numerous obstacles you have to go around.

Flight is Fun but not as effective as Hover at higher levels.

Teleport is just so awkward to use, especially when you have little patience as I do...

-Mav

Darknesse

04-21-2005, 06:23 PM

Yes, to some people it is worth it otherwise they wouldn't do it. My point was, we all know that you're technically right in regards to the slots vs. rewards, but sometimes it is all about concept and not about what return on investment you get. After all this time I still don't think you comprehend that.

Anyway, I've said my piece and I'm done with it.
No, I understand the concept, but it only holds true if it is a noticable difference. It's like slotting Unstoppable 6x with Damage reduction when 2 caps me. Great! As a concept I am MORE INVINCIBLE than the next guy. But on a practical level, I just wasted 4 slots.

Now, I understand that you don't get it, but I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Blackbat

04-21-2005, 07:50 PM

No, I understand the concept, but it only holds true if it is a noticable difference. It's like slotting Unstoppable 6x with Damage reduction when 2 caps me. Great! As a concept I am MORE INVINCIBLE than the next guy. But on a practical level, I just wasted 4 slots.

Now, I understand that you don't get it, but I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Well, we're not talking about going over the speed cap for a travel power and throwing away slots. We're talking about how many slots it takes to hit the speed cap. So the example you used above isn't what we're talking about at all since there is a noticeable difference from a 1-slotted Fly to a 3-slotted Fly, even though it might not be worth it in your eyes.

But I agree to disagree.