The Live 8

[sheld0n]

The biggest public event in the world, ever.
And for an important cause. Isn't that something?
Im watching it right now.
I guess this is something your grandkids will be asking you about, in the future.

But do you think it will really make a difference in Africa?
If so, how?

[Charon]

I'm watching the London event right now....

Damn good music, though I doubt it'll make a bit of difference.

[Kinetix]

Must be a european thing :sarcasm: ;)

I haven't heard of it. Is it like Live AID?

[WingedAvenger]

It won't matter because none of the money raised is actually going toward the impoverished in Africa.

[Charon]

It bassically is Live Aid, except there are 8 concerts going on around the globe, and this time they're not asking for money, they just want the support of as many people as possible to try and get the 8 world leaders going to the G8 conference to wipe out world debt and double aid to Africa, and other such stuff. It's been organised by Bob Geldoff again, and has been absolutely amazing up til now.

9 Concerts including the one in Edinburgh which will coincide with the G8 conference itself, on the 6th.

Unfortunately, I still don't think it'll make a difference.

But hey, it's some damn good music, I can't wait til The Who and Pink Floydd go on in London in the next couple of hours. The Killers have just done their set, although you can't really call one song a set, they didn't even do Mr. Brightside... bah. Anyway, it's all looking good so far. :)

[ChairLegOfTruth]

I was planning to go to the Edinburgh march but we're, like, bereft of fundage this weekend so I stayed in an played CoH. If I had known a week ago how bad things were I'd have organised a Live8 get-together on Union... (all white garbed heroes fighting crime...)

http://www.live8live.com/whatsitabout/index.shtml
"This is not Live Aid 2.

These concerts are the start point for The Long Walk To Justice, the one way we can all make our voices heard in unison.

This is without doubt a moment in history where ordinary people can grasp the chance to achieve something truly monumental and demand from the 8 world leaders at G8 an end to poverty.

The G8 leaders have it within their power to alter history. They will only have the will to do so if tens of thousands of people show them that enough is enough.

By doubling aid, fully cancelling debt, and delivering trade justice for Africa, the G8 could change the future for millions of men, women and children."

http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/edinburgh/g8-checklist.shtml
Across trade, debt and aid

* Commit to stop imposing economic policy conditions. Conditions imposed through aid and debt relief include trade liberalisation, deregulation, privatisation and fiscal austerity. Developing countries must be free to determine their own economic policies while remaining accountable to their own people for delivering poverty eradication.

Trade Justice

* Stop forced liberalisation at the World Trade Organisation (WTO); allow developing countries to protect key sectors important for their development interests; and support binding Special and Differential Treatment for all developing countries.
* Commit not to negotiate bilateral and regional trade agreements that require developing countries to go beyond commitments made in the WTO.
* Eliminate agricultural export support and all trade distorting support to agriculture by 2010; and ensure that no agricultural exports are dumped on the markets of developing countries.
* Commit to ensure that global trade policies and practices do not undercut internationally agreed environmental and social standards, in particular, core labour standards.
* Pledge to work with other UN members to establish binding internationally agreed rules for corporate accountability.

Drop the Debt

* An immediate cancellation of all multilateral and bilateral debt for all countries needing it to achieve the MDGs.
* Agree all debt relief must be fully funded and not reduce aid flows.
* Adopt a fair and transparent arbitration process where the issue of sovereign debts can be resolved.

More and Better Aid

* Commit to contribute the G8's share of the US$50 billion MDG funding gap, starting in 2005/2006; and outline a timetable to reach 0.7% of G8 GNI by 2010.
* Commit to agreeing with OECD DAC partners a set of ambitious targets for improving aid effectiveness that can be monitored, are time-bound and quantifiable. This must include a commitment to fully untie all aid to all developing countries and ensuring aid is focused on poverty eradication.

Action on HIV/AIDS

* Commit to, and pledge new funding for, HIV treatment for everyone who needs it by 2010.

50,000 people die in Africa every day due to extreme poverty. Something can be done about it. If it was happening in the west something would already be done about it.

If you're sitting in the US wondering why you haven't heard of this I give you two words "vested interest". Word to the wise; get a new country.

Something like 90* million people (maybe it was 9 mil Johnthan Ross's lisp can be awful)have already signed the petition. 3 billion watching Live8 right now.

Let G8 sit on their hands now :D

*Actually I counted 23 mil so there you go

[Solario]

17.800.000 people die of poverty everyday.

That's 50.000 people aday. Think about it. 50.000 people die in New York City on Monday. 50.000 die in Los Angeles on Tuesday. 50.000 die in London on Wednesday. Thursday 50.000 die in Rome. Friday it's 50.000 in Vancouver. Saturday 50.000 lose their life in Moscow. Sunday it's 50.000 in your hometown.

Every third second a child, somebody's sister, somebody's brother, somebody's daughter, somebody's son, somebody's friend dies because of poverty.


I doubt it'll help (Because A. The G8 might not do anything and B. corrupt governments could possibly misuse the releave of debt), but it's better than nothing. The least thing you can do is sign your name on the little dotted line at www.live8live.com.

[Xanatos]

The main problem is the African Government. I kinda wish Bush would do an "Iraq" and "promote democracy" in Africa.

My estimations:

-Debt Dropped - Easilly affordable
-25 Billion extra aid per anum - Easilly affordable
-No change on trade, no "justice" on trade. Although there is a review of the situation on trade later in the year. There's another summit planned. The ultimate deciding factor on change will be whether or not there is public outcry. Which there won't be. The G8 make allot of money from their "trade empire" - and short of a ****ing revolution I can't see anything overcoming the G8's vested interest.

Politics is all about pragmatism. MOrales are far too often left on the backburner.

pessemism aside, three very important things are taking place.
1. Debt will likely be cleared - great for the short term.
2. Improved aid - I doubt we'll get $50 billion - but ANY improvement is saving lives.
3. The next generation. We're an evolving western society - things like this shape our thoughts and minds. The more the public is made aware of such things and are made to care about such things, the more change we'll see.

It's a shame our collective attention span is too short to form a movement. Now we only live for "moments" - so I suppose things such as Live 8 and Live Aid are the way forward.

[SovietGary]

Wish i was in Rome for Duran Duran
BUT NOOOOO im stuck here in Philly

[MikeKAY]

The main problem is the African Government. I kinda wish Bush would do an "Iraq" and "promote democracy" in Africa.


Funny you should mention that, hiring these guys (http://www.blackwaterusa.com/) to do just that is near the top of my "If I where absurdly rich" list of things to do. Honestly, a lot of the administrations REALLY need to go before any real progress can be made. Some of the official policy that comes out of Africa is mind bogglingly disturbing.

[Got]

Mugabe: "The razing of towns and markets will lead to great strides in the economic recovery of Zimbabwe."

(Read: The razing of towns and markets that just so happen to be the areas of my highest registered opposition will lead to great strides in keeping me in power for the next decade or so.)

I'm not a great believer in Live Aid nor Live 8 for reasons that will probably take far too long to eloquently commit to this thread, however, sufficed to say I feel there are many more avenues to travel before cancelled debt and massive amounts of aid will make the difference Geldof seems to think it will.

[Xanatos]

I'm not a great believer in Live Aid nor Live 8 for reasons that will probably take far too long to eloquently commit to this thread, however, sufficed to say I feel there are many more avenues to travel before cancelled debt and massive amounts of aid will make the difference Geldof seems to think it will.

You always have to exaggerate the first step in order for people to take it. The idea of saving a FEW lives or help start the road towards an eventual fix doesn't sound as sexy or pre-nostalgic as something which "is a once in a liefetime oppurtunity". While the former may be true, the latter is all people want to hear. And the latter will always garner more participation.

[Vendel]

Aid to africa....wast of money and time... Aid to Africian people good

Although The problems in Africa will not be solved by more aid or forgiven debt. Takeing out a couple dozen dictators would be a good start.

There is a reason "Western" Nations reletivaly speaking do so well while other countries dont. Many nation in Africa the middle East and Asia need to have a cultural shift. People in these countries are not stupid. Something has held them back for Centuries. Heck The middle east and Muslium Countries in General used to be the cultural leaders in the world during the middle ages (or was it dark) but they havent really moved forward since then....heck you might say they have regresed. Even countries like South Africa(the child rape capital of the world) need alot of work.

Someone posted a story about Etheoipa(sp) where it is common for children to be kidnaped and forced to marry. Or like in said S. Africa where people believe that haveing sex with a young virgin would take away there aids.

Lets not even staret with all the Amreica bashing and the self hateing westerners. Nothing makes me more sick then when well off people tell Us how horriable we are. The fact that they can complain and think we are a problem shows how well off and delusional they are.



crap I shold have posted in the rant forum about this......didnt mean to ramble like this. I really should stop typeing now.




I cant stop.





see

[Rufus Rhinehart]

Yes, the west is horrible, in just as many awful ways as the rest of the world. We're blind if we can't see that.

I wholly respect the sentiment behind Live 8 and helping Africans make a better lot for themselves short term, but like a lot of other posters here, I wonder at the long term difference it can make. Some would argue that it was the colonial wars orchestrated by the western powers in centuries past that have helped bring Africa to the state it is now in.

Also, reading news reports of the concerts, I find myself somewhat resentful of the uncritical herd mentality evident throughout. Like some kind of magical transcendental experience, as if people all over the world were having blinders taken from their eyes, and were suddenly aware of the plight of the common African. I say to you, if you weren't aware of it after the slaughters of Idi Amin, the constant turnover of revolution and counter-revolution, Live Aid, Somalia, countless lives senselessly lost in tribal massacres, the stricken Congo, the AIDS epidemic, the turmoil in the southern provinces... If it took Live 8 to make you realise Africa is in trouble, then you don't deserve to be called intelligent.

It's my considered opinion that unless we tackle the worldwide system of governmental corruption, stupidity and one-dimensional thinking among the masses, and the trade hierarchy that allows the whole thing to stay standing, even as our leaders mouth platitudes of making an effort to help... unless we can do something about all of this, the money that we pour into Africa might as well go into a black hole.

[ChairLegOfTruth]

It's my considered opinion that unless we tackle the worldwide system of governmental corruption, stupidity and one-dimensional thinking among the masses, and the trade hierarchy that allows the whole thing to stay standing, even as our leaders mouth platitudes of making an effort to help... unless we can do something about all of this, the money that we pour into Africa might as well go into a black hole.

I hear you but what can we do? The people with the power to do anything are the same self-serving corrupt SOB's who are responsible for the problem in the first place.

Short of decapitating the Powers-That-Be or a sudden mainfestation of superhumanity with the self control to resist the inherent temptation towards corruption that power presents we are powerless to do anything other than what we've done with Live8.

[Dark AngelHawk]

I just had a really crazy dream about the G8 thing. Very weird.

[Alumette]

I hear you but what can we do? The people with the power to do anything are the same self-serving corrupt SOB's who are responsible for the problem in the first place.

Short of decapitating the Powers-That-Be or a sudden mainfestation of superhumanity with the self control to resist the inherent temptation towards corruption that power presents we are powerless to do anything other than what we've done with Live8.


Nobody can do everything, but everybody can do something.

No one person has to solve the problems completely, and you're right, no one person, or even group of people, can. You're right that it would take a total, committed, worldwide effort; and we all know that will never happen.

However, one person doing *something* is better than doing nothing. Don't wait around for other people to get over their apathy: pick something, one small thing, that you *can* do, and do it. Become the change you would like to see. Will you singlehandedly "save" Africa? Of course not. But could you, possibly, save the life of a child in Africa who is dying of AIDS and doesn't have access to medicine? Possibly. Or write such a compelling letter to an elected official that it sways their vote, thereby shaping an important policy decision that will get insecticide-treated mosquito nets distributed to a small village in a malarial area? Of course. And there are any number of other things you *can* do.

"It is better to light one small candle than to sit and curse the darkness." --Lao Tse

To say that the problem is too big, and there is no easy or all-encompassing solution, therefore I will do nothing, is probably the worst choice of all, and is, in my view, cowardice. You can ridicule these concerts, or similar efforts, all you want as a publicity stunt, or say that they will do little, but at least someone is doing something, and even if it changes one attitude or makes only one African life better, then I can't say I can fault it too much. There is no "best" solution or magic bullet. There is only a series of small steps, laden with compassion, that will make a difference in one life at a time.

As evidence, I point to a class of twenty eighth-grade French students diligently working on French-language materials promoting the use of insecticide-treated mosquito nets. These students found out that every 30 seconds, a child in Africa dies of malaria, and they wanted to do something about it. They worked with an agency called NetMark (http://www.netmarkafrica.org/) and with the United Nations to create French-language public health educational materials: brochures, posters, instruction sheets, etc; because they found out that a large part of the malaria problem in Francophone Africa is simply that the public is unaware of the effectiveness of a mosquito net as prevention, or they are not educated on the best way to use it.

Did these students stop malaria in Benin? Of course not. I mean, really, what can a group of adolescents in middle America hope to accomplish with something as huge as malaria?

I'll tell you:

These materials are still being used by NetMark in their education drives in Francophone Africa. These students received a letter from the Beninese Minister of Public Health, thanking them for their efforts and inviting them to come as a class to Benin to participate in person in anti-malarial campaigns. These students got the attention of some people in Washington D.C., who are now more aware of the problem than they might have been previously (granted, a cynic would say it's just to garner public favor, but does it matter really?). And these are 20 people, now, who are young experts on the malaria problem--20 more people than there were before the project started--who will use that information to inform others, and to inform their future decisions as they go through life as global citizens.

"Never doubt for a moment that a small group of committed individuals can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
--Eleanor Roosevelt (I think.) :)

[Magna Harrier]

Another big issue is the Western world (I so love that term... it makes me invision an entire hemispere on horseback, with ten-gallon hats) seems to need to view Africa as a single country... or two regions, the normal Africa, and the "Close enough to the Middle East to produce terrorists" Africa. Alas, while there are many issues that face the entirety of the continent, such problems might have different causes. Government control of the food supply is different from a famine caused by drought, yet both result in hunger. Certain countries, like South Africa and Kenya, and POSSIBLY Nigeria, seem to be putting forth an honest effort. Somolia, and parts of the Ivory Coast and the Republic of Congo.... not so much. If the world wants to help Africa, it's going to take an effort AT LEAST as much as the fight for "freedom" we're going through in the Middle East.
Of course, for every well-informed, West-loving African whose broadcast on the BBC, there's another person from the same region who has no interest in change, if it means their gender or ethnic group losing control of that 2 mile swatch of land. Ugly? Yep. Politically Incorrect? Possibly... but the truth isn't always pretty. It's not a problem unique to the African continent, but we have been ignoring it there longer than we have in other regions. If Africa is going to change, that change is going to have to come from the people of the various African nations. We can help, we can prod, but if it's not something they want, there's really no point.

[Rufus Rhinehart]

I hear you but what can we do? The people with the power to do anything are the same self-serving corrupt SOB's who are responsible for the problem in the first place.

Short of decapitating the Powers-That-Be or a sudden mainfestation of superhumanity with the self control to resist the inherent temptation towards corruption that power presents we are powerless to do anything other than what we've done with Live8.

Well, what is Live 8 actually doing? Correct me if my understanding is wrong, but the concerts are not actually about raising money, but about raising awareness... is that correct? Well, as I tried to address in my original post, I've been alive for 25 years, and one of my earliest memories is watching Live Aid as a four-year-old. Throughout my life, issues in Africa have been continually, and I do mean continually, at the top of the agenda. And yet, this huge feat of organisation comes about to bring the issue to the top once again... I do not for one second understand how the people going to those concerts could claim to have had their eyes 'opened'. If they weren't aware of the issues already, they frankly ought to be ashamed of themselves.

Then, we read all the mawkish descriptions of what actually went on at the concerts... the Hyde Park crowd stunned into silenece by Annie Lennox's solo version of 'Why?' as images of AIDS-afflicted children are flashed on the video wall. I mean, does nobody else see the irony at the heart of that? Standing in a crowd of sheep, waving your hands to a sentimental ballad and feeling 'humbled' at the sight of a child thousands of miles away who will never know the luxury of standing in a concert crowd watching anything as awesome as a video wall. Something about it strikes me as so... smug, it's unbelievable.

I just get images of idiotic yuppies, jaws working the air as they yap into mobile phones: 'oh yah, was at Live 8 man, it was like soooo awesome, there was this huge sense of solidarity and yea... I mean, in this world it just makes such a change to feel like you're actually doing something.' And yet, what did you do? You went to a gig, the content of which happened to prick at your conscience a little. What did it change about the way you act? Not a damn thing.

As I said before, I do have a huge respect for the ideal behind the event, and the things that Geldof is trying to communicate, but I have to question what is going through people's minds when this - attending a concert and feeling a bit guilty for five minutes - is what amounts to 'action'.

There's a personal friend of my family who maintains a network of contacts in Uganda. He buys antique collectibles, and brings them to my father, who sells them on eBay for a profit. Every penny of that money, they are using to build a school out there. The school is now self-sufficient and running under its own steam. The money they send now is used to expand and improve. There are a couple of other, real, concrete things they do to help the people who matter, the people who will use the money to improve their lives, instead of lobbying for yet more aid to go to corrupt government officials who will spend it on fleets of state limousines and AK-47s.

I mean, do you see the difference? As much as Live 8 is laudable and an amazing effort, what is it actually achieving? Imagine showing footage of the conerts to a sub-saharan African child, the very person the whole thing is trying to help. What do you think he'd make of it? Part of me says he'd see a huge party, and not a lot else.

Don't get me wrong, awareness is very important, but don't mistake awareness for action.