Batman vs Fully Evolved Person

[Xanatos]

If you break a "maybe" down enough it is a jumble of Yes's and No's.

OK here's the situation. A human has evolved as far as is theoretically possible (without the constraints of time or the lifespan of the universe) he sees everything as binary. (Everything is made up of miniscule decisions represented by 1's and 0's) He's able to analyze someone down to a string of 1's and 0's. All of this from their brain. He's had time to study Batman down to coding him (in all completeness) to a BINARY level on everything. (EVERYTHING - even his emotions are broken down into a string of 1's and 0's)

No matter how much batman prepared for this he WOULDN'T WIN.

Whaddya think?

[Overbite]

Batman Learns from Experience. He wouldn't win round one but if he managed to get away he'd study his adversary and devize something that would aid him in round two.

Though the fight would be even at most points in round two Batman will have prevailed. Asuming he lived bpast round one...

[Randomus]

So this is Batman vs. Neo.

Seeing as Neo is "TEH UBAR GODZ!@11", Batman couldn't win.

[Masked Revenger]

Batman Learns from Experience. He wouldn't win round one but if he managed to get away he'd study his adversary and devize something that would aid him in round two.

Though the fight would be even at most points in round two Batman will have prevailed. Asuming he lived bpast round one...

I agree with this, but only because Bats is the star of the book, and you can't have the start keep loosing. :P

Chris

[Xanatos]

Batman is a metaphor for human accomplishment over everything non-human. How can he beat someone who'd know everything he did/what he planned to do/etc? It just wouldn't happen.

[Jade_Dragon]

In other words, you are basically saying that this person has modelled Batman in his mind, to the point where he can predict his every reaction and move. He will always know what Batman is about to do and block it.

In that situation, yeah, I think Batman would lose. Unless he realized what was going on, and countered it by acting randomly. But then the other person would obviously predict that he would do that, and counter that. Bats couldn't act truly randomly, there would be a pattern to even instinctive decisions that he would make. So perhaps he might try acting the OPPOSITE of his natural reaction. But of course, that would take training, and again, that he would decide to do that could be predicted. So...

Probably the battle would continue until they are both trying so hard to second guess each other that they both get splitting headaches. :D

[sheld0n]

Batman can do something random that would seem very unlike him.

Edit: bah, Jade cut me down before i even managed to finish posting. :P

Anyway, Bats could ask someone else for advice about what to do, someone that the binary dude doesnt know that well, like Alfred, or Robin.

[Overbite]

Neo could bleed in the matrix. He wasn't a god, he was part of an equation to balance out the matrix. Granted he could do things the other humans couldn't but it's all about the mind power.

Batman could very well do the same thing, as long as he realized "there is no spoon" Batman is a very well cenetered guy, Neo was a computer geek. Once Batman realized what he could do if he set his mind to it Neo would get served...

But I still think Neo would have round one...but Batman would take him down to China town in round two.

[Jade_Dragon]

Batman is a metaphor for human accomplishment over everything non-human. How can he beat someone who'd know everything he did/what he planned to do/etc? It just wouldn't happen.

Or putting it another way, it's Batman against a super-Batman. The tactic of predicting his enemy's moves is Batman's tactic. So he's basically going up against someone who's better than him at it.

Batman would have one advantage, if this person is as you have described. Since he experiences everything digitally, in terms of 1s and 0s, he cannot model things like instinct and hunch. He can simulate it, as in "fuzzy logic", but he cannot actually think that way. That would be where Batman could beat him.

The Major, from Ghost in the Shell, for instance, is very much like this. But she makes a big deal about "listening to her ghost", which is something that can't be simulated by her digital cyberbrain.

(Of course, this brings up another possibility for a battle, Batman vs The Major. :D)

[Blackbat]

There is a flaw in the "Neo" character though. Even if he can pick apart and know how Batman would react to a certain sitation, even if he can even break emotions down to 1's and 0's. There is and always will be an unknown factor. Humans just like life are unpredictable at times. As much experience and science as we have we still cannot 100% predict the weather. It's impossible, so there would always be that chance that Batman could do something that is totally unpredictable and unexpected. Granted it's a long shot, even I will admit that I would vote against Batman in this situation. But, it's not a sure thing. There is always that 1 chance in a million that life will still throw you a curve ball.

[Solario]

Batman could win the same exact way Deadpool beat Taskmaster (a person, who analyse everything down to the smallest thing (here binary)), by... dancing! (Thereby breaking his own pattern, which would force the overanalytic being to have to begin all over again, since none of the data is sure anymore.

[Jade_Dragon]

Batman could win the same exact way Deadpool beat Taskmaster (a person, who analyse everything down to the smallest thing (here binary)), by... dancing! (Thereby breaking his own pattern, which would force the overanalytic being to have to begin all over again, since none of the data is sure anymore.

[shudders] I hate to say it, but he's probably right. The comic book Batman would probably lose. But the Adam West Batman... he'd win every time. What a horrible thought... :D

[Blackbat]

I think Batman would rather die than dance. But, if he brought Nightwing along....

[sheld0n]

Neo could bleed in the matrix. He wasn't a god, he was part of an equation to balance out the matrix. Granted he could do things the other humans couldn't but it's all about the mind power.

Batman could very well do the same thing, as long as he realized "there is no spoon" Batman is a very well cenetered guy, Neo was a computer geek. Once Batman realized what he could do if he set his mind to it Neo would get served...

But I still think Neo would have round one...but Batman would take him down to China town in round two.

Very interesting that you mention this.
There was a Batman episode once, where the Scarecrow injected some chemical into Bruce's body and got him into a coma, where he dreamt of a life where his parents didnt die. But somehow Bruce knew it wasnt real and tried to wake up. Once he succeeded, Scarecrow got frustrated, because he created a "perfect life" for him. But of course, Bruce argued that that life wasnt real.
As you can see, it was all very similar to the whole story behind the Matrix.

Just thought it would be worthwhile to note that.

[sheld0n]

Oh man, i SO need to start reading Deadpool.

[Randomus]

That was a hilarious battle between Taskywasky and Deadpool.

[Jade_Dragon]

Very interesting that you mention this.
There was a Batman episode once, where the Scarecrow injected some chemical into Bruce's body and got him into a coma, where he dreamt of a life where his parents didnt die. But somehow Bruce knew it wasnt real and tried to wake up. Once he succeeded, Scarecrow got frustrated, because he created a "perfect life" for him. But of course, Bruce argued that that life wasnt real.
As you can see, it was all very similar to the whole story behind the Matrix.

Just thought it would be worthwhile to note that.

One thing I liked about the episode of JLU where Mongul does the same to Superman is that not only does Batman help him to fight it, but when he takes on the plant to free Supes, he gets loose from it a lot faster than Superman did.

Basically, been there, done that.

Only, I thought it was Mad Hatter, not Scarecrow. But maybe they used the same plot more than once...

[inkblaster]

Batman would do detective work to find out how this super evolved human got this way, and find a way to reverse the process. OR, a super evolved human would in theory be reasonable enough to not want to kick batman's butt because he's evolved beyond violence. :P

[Magna Harrier]

A lot of the "Batman Wins" scenarios seem to always involve Bats SURVIVING for there to be a round two. The "learn from your mistakes" scenario really only works if you're at least skilled enough not to get your skull pulped.
One of the better examples of this comes in the Superman/Batman series, where an older Superman from the future attacks Batman and normal Supes in the Batcave. Batman reaches for the ultimate plot device, his kryptonite he keeps in his belt... and Older Supes knocks the living heck out of him at superspeed before his hand can reach his belt. The best mind in the world still operates within the realm of humanity, even if it is highly trained humanity.
Besides... uber-fanboy ranting aside. it is possible for a normal human being to outhink Batman. Bane did it. Raz Al'Ghul did it. The head of Checkmate did it. One does'nt need to be superhuman to outthink him, but you do have to be pretty smart.

[Overbite]

Batman would do detective work to find out how this super evolved human got this way, and find a way to reverse the process. OR, a super evolved human would in theory be reasonable enough to not want to kick batman's butt because he's evolved beyond violence. :P


Like take ScareCrow's Halicinagin(sp?) spray it in Neo's face and drive him nuts...Yeah..."The body can not live without the mind". Neo would be helpless and his mind would be cracked. :chuckle:

[Magna Harrier]

Unless, of course, he came about super-evolution by EVOLVING, as in naturally, through the generations.

[Blackbat]

A lot of the "Batman Wins" scenarios seem to always involve Bats SURVIVING for there to be a round two. The "learn from your mistakes" scenario really only works if you're at least skilled enough not to get your skull pulped.
One of the better examples of this comes in the Superman/Batman series, where an older Superman from the future attacks Batman and normal Supes in the Batcave. Batman reaches for the ultimate plot device, his kryptonite he keeps in his belt... and Older Supes knocks the living heck out of him at superspeed before his hand can reach his belt. The best mind in the world still operates within the realm of humanity, even if it is highly trained humanity.
Besides... uber-fanboy ranting aside. it is possible for a normal human being to outhink Batman. Bane did it. Raz Al'Ghul did it. The head of Checkmate did it. One does'nt need to be superhuman to outthink him, but you do have to be pretty smart.

Pretty smart and be in the perfect position to do it. Bane worked Batman ragged after Batman was already on the edge of exhaustion. Ra's Al Ghul...I have no explanation. He is the only person who I can say is just as smart as Batman. Only experience I have with Checkmate is in the Bruce Wayne: Murderer TPB so I can't comment.

But on to the Batman/Superman: Public Enemies TPB that you metioned. I think the Kryptonite was in his vault, which he was heading to. The older Superman stripped away his belt to get rid of his other "toys". I just have to say, that IMO some of the best Batman/Superman dialog, ever.

[Magna Harrier]

You might be right about the vault... my DC collection just got sorted, so it'll take me a bit to find where my wife placed that series, but I think you were right. I was assuming he was going for his belt to get the K-fragment... Bats might have had some other doohicky in there.
A common element in the "Bats gets his bathind handed to him" scenarios seems to be, wait for it, element of suprise. It seems to be easier to take him on if he's not aware that you exist. Why he did'nt see the checkmate thing happening, I have no idea. Well, I take it back, I do, but the story is recent enough that I won't comment on it for fear of spoiling it.

[Blackbat]

True, I mean even in the Hush series when Batman basically wailed on Superman while had the K-ring on. Batman even commented, that even though Superman was controlled by Ivy, he still held back. If not for Superman's constant restraint he could kill Batman with a flick of the wrist.

It's annoying to some Superman fans but it just shows that Batman uses people weaknesses against them.

[Magna Harrier]

Did they ever mention how Ivy took control of Supes again? I mean, not knowing the technical method her "mind control toxin" works through, it's hard to say whether it should have worked or not. The very concept of "mind control toxin" itself boggles the mind... it's not a nuerotoxin, does'nt causes dehydration... so I'm really not sure how it would affect him.
Well, regardless, they wrote the book, not me. If they say it works, it works.
Meanwhile, The Dark Knight Returns still stinks of "this is my book, so I get to win" syndrome. It could have been completely plausible, actually, but I could'nt bring myself to read it... the art hurts my head. Can anyone recap it for me?

[Apollinaris]

OK here's the situation. A human has evolved as far as is theoretically possible (without the constraints of time or the lifespan of the universe) he sees everything as binary. (Everything is made up of miniscule decisions represented by 1's and 0's)

I've got to ask this one, but what makes you think binary is more evolved than our current brains? We use binary in computers because it's easy to make them do their jobs (Math, Boolean expression, and storing and retrieving data.) but having a binary brain that thought in binary would be a devolution, not an evolution. You have to chop up natural stimuli into unatural geometric patterns to do things digitally. (Think making circles with polygons) The ability to comprehend and make sense of nautral sources in all their complexity, in analog, is one of the strengths of the human brain, not a weakness. Perhaps it would be better to say a being that thinks much faster and actually uses their entire brain rather than just the piddly 1/3 of it we use.

[Libertyman]

Very interesting that you mention this.
There was a Batman episode once, where the Scarecrow injected some chemical into Bruce's body and got him into a coma, where he dreamt of a life where his parents didnt die. But somehow Bruce knew it wasnt real and tried to wake up. Once he succeeded, Scarecrow got frustrated, because he created a "perfect life" for him. But of course, Bruce argued that that life wasnt real.
As you can see, it was all very similar to the whole story behind the Matrix.

Just thought it would be worthwhile to note that.

Actually wasn't that the Mad hatter?

[sheld0n]

Apollinaris has a good point.
Computers are good at predicting things thanks to their large databases and infallible memories, rather than the fact that they work in binary.

edit: It could have been the Mad Hatter. Its been a while since i saw that episode. The point is, Batman had a very similar experience to Neo's.

[MikeKAY]

Bah, I would just jack "Neo" up on some Versaid. That would put his binary brain down a notch. :chuckle:

[Xanatos]

Batman would have one advantage, if this person is as you have described. Since he experiences everything digitally, in terms of 1s and 0s, he cannot model things like instinct and hunch. He can simulate it, as in "fuzzy logic", but he cannot actually think that way. That would be where Batman could beat him.

EVERYTHING in the universe, when broken down far enough, is binary.

And the "random" or "act unknown" factor would be a percentage of a likely response that batman would use. So Mr Evolved would totally know how to counter it. If he knows batmans brain - he knows how Batman would think in ANY SITUATION.

I've got to ask this one, but what makes you think binary is more evolved than our current brains? We use binary in computers because it's easy to make them do their jobs (Math, Boolean expression, and storing and retrieving data.) but having a binary brain that thought in binary would be a devolution, not an evolution. You have to chop up natural stimuli into unatural geometric patterns to do things digitally. (Think making circles with polygons) The ability to comprehend and make sense of nautral sources in all their complexity, in analog, is one of the strengths of the human brain, not a weakness. Perhaps it would be better to say a being that thinks much faster and actually uses their entire brain rather than just the piddly 1/3 of it we use.

It was a strange way of me saying "He knows everything". He doesn't necessarilly VIEW things in Binary, just understands everything to the level of someone who would.

An analogue signal can be broken down into a string of 1's and 0's - as can the Human Brain. It's based on a theory that nothing is left to chance, and that the future was predetermined at the moment of creation. (Everything that's happened has happend and everythign that will happen will happen). It's an evolvement of the "nature vs nurture" debate - with the reflection that "nurture" is actually "Nature".

Oh and we use all of our brain...just not all of it at once :)

[Overbite]

A whopping 10% of it... :( I can only imagine what we can do if we were able to use 100%...

Crap...now I gotta say something to get back on the topic...Oh yeah, I'll say again. Bats would destroy The Evo Man's brain using some chemical agent, like shown in the movie. Making the Evo Man sorry to say...retarded, unable to use his brain to fly and see bianary and what not...Batman wins...

[Blackbat]

And the "random" or "act unknown" factor would be a percentage of a likely response that batman would use. So Mr Evolved would totally know how to counter it. If he knows batmans brain - he knows how Batman would think in ANY SITUATION.

I would have to disagree on this. It would be impossible to predict every outcome of every variable of every sitatuation at any given second. He might know Batman's brain but just like nature, human thinking changes based on enviroment and past experience.

For example, this evolved human would know that everytime he throws a left hook, Batman will duck down and to the right. He also knows that there is a slight chance that Batman could duck down and to the left, lean backwards, lean right, etc., etc.

There are a few dozen expected counters that he knows Batman typically uses. Bascially, he knows that there is a 99% chance that Batman will use one of those dozen or so counter moves.

He also knows the counter moves that Batman does not use for whatever reason. But (and this is all assuming Batman knows all there is to know about this evolved person and how he works) what if Batman goes totally against his normal reactions and does counters and moves that he would NEVER do under any other situation? I mean, this other person is only human afterall, he can't physically be prepared to react to every known response AND every unknown response in a nanosecond.

What I'm getting at is that yes, he might know every response that would be available but he can't predict which one that will be used against him, whether it be the ones he expects or the ones he has determined have a less likelyhood to actually happen, so in theory he is just as vulnerable as you or I to truly unpredictable situations.

[Magna Harrier]

As is Batman. While really darned smart, Batman's big appeal to a lot of folks is that he is still only human... which is great, until you start throwing him against folks like Darkseid. Yes, I know it happened in Superman/Batman, but it still seemed forced.
The assumption that our "Fully Evolved Man" would be sheerly limited to a set of reactions, like a computer, seems a bit premature. Computers have preset reactiomns because of how they are programmed... they operate within preset perameters. Our Evo-Man is still a MAN. Unless you're saying that it is the destiny of mankind to evolve OUT of creativity, rather than the apperant opposite being true, the whole "Batman acts unpredictable" thing seems a bit forced. As in shoehorned.

[Blackbat]

the whole "Batman acts unpredictable" thing seems a bit forced. As in shoehorned.


Well, I'm grasping at straws here, trying to make this a somewhat fair fight.;)

I mean to place an evolved human up against a unevolved human, assuming they both have the same physical attributes is pretty unfair. In the end, I doubt Batman has the time to figure any of this out. I think he just gets his ass handed to him.

[Malibu Sally]

Actually, I think Bats and the evolved human team up and beat the living snot out of Xan for starting this thread. :shinner:

[Magna Harrier]

Your crane style is no match for my lemon-lime eagle claw!

[Jade_Dragon]

Unless you're saying that it is the destiny of mankind to evolve OUT of creativity, rather than the apperant opposite being true, the whole "Batman acts unpredictable" thing seems a bit forced. As in shoehorned.

A lot of that was Xanatos' original description of the evolved man's thought process, which also seemed a bit shoehorned. When you work with digital thinking every day, you learn it's limitations.

As you said, though, most science fiction projects that even WITH digital thinking, there will still be a nebulous "something" that sets us apart from computers. Whether it be the "ghost" from Ghost in the Shell, emotion and instinct, free will, illogic, or whatever.

[Jade_Dragon]

EVERYTHING in the universe, when broken down far enough, is binary.

And the "random" or "act unknown" factor would be a percentage of a likely response that batman would use. So Mr Evolved would totally know how to counter it. If he knows batmans brain - he knows how Batman would think in ANY SITUATION.

Not exactly.

According to Quantum Theory, if you break down the universe far enough, you get into a realm of nebulousness. The universe is indeed made up of "binary" particles, but those particles themselves exist within a realm of probability. At the smallest level, matter exists as both a particle and a wave. Only when you look at the matter as a particle is it binary.

Plus, in most cases when we are dealing with "binary" data storage we are usually truncating the information. The amount of information needed to store the particles in an ordinary object would be astronomical. So digital "rounds off", by transforming the analog (which is itself digital but to an extremely high degree) into a number of lower magnitude.

If your evolved man's thinking was in fact of high enough magnitude that he could truly represent EVERYTHING without roundoff, then it would be effectively analog. So you're basically introducing a term into the concept which is largely irrelevant, and can even lead to misinterpretation, since "digital" usually implies round off.

As for predicting Batman's actions, again, once you get to that point, the universe becomes a cloud of probabilities. If Batman has a 35% chance to do A, a 37% chance to do B, a 20% chance to do C, and the remaining 8% a dozen additional possibilities, then calculating that doesn't exactly help you. The best you can do is prepare for one of those possibilities and react when you see it happening.

[sheld0n]

As you said, though, most science fiction projects that even WITH digital thinking, there will still be a nebulous "something" that sets us apart from computers. Whether it be the "ghost" from Ghost in the Shell, emotion and instinct, free will, illogic, or whatever.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress <- great read.

edit: this may have come out as sarcastic. i just wanted to say that according to what you wrote, i think you'd love that book.

[Solario]

A whopping 10% of it... :( I can only imagine what we can do if we were able to use 100%...


Actually that's untrue. You use about 10% at a time, but that doesn't mean you don't use atleast 99% of your brain through out your life.

Meanwhile I'm much more interested in our so-called "Junk DNA" (the supposed leftovers from our evolution) than this.

[Jade_Dragon]

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress <- great read.

edit: this may have come out as sarcastic. i just wanted to say that according to what you wrote, i think you'd love that book.

I got the meaning. And I've heard of it, though I've never read it.

I still need to read Neuromancer...

(Unfortunately, I have a serious problem in that once I pick up a book, I can't put it down. Not to eat, or sleep, or anything. So pretty much the only time I ever read anything is on vacations)

[Apollinaris]

It was a strange way of me saying "He knows everything". He doesn't necessarilly VIEW things in Binary, just understands everything to the level of someone who would.

An analogue signal can be broken down into a string of 1's and 0's - as can the Human Brain. It's based on a theory that nothing is left to chance, and that the future was predetermined at the moment of creation. (Everything that's happened has happend and everythign that will happen will happen). It's an evolvement of the "nature vs nurture" debate - with the reflection that "nurture" is actually "Nature".

Oh and we use all of our brain...just not all of it at once :)

As someone who's done two years of Comp Sci and is now in IST, trust me, binary ain't all that wonderful ;) It's just much easier to decide if a circut has a charge or not rather than reading what level of electrical charge it has. Being able to store more than 0 and 1 in the same space is good. :D Computers is dumb.

[Xanatos]

I don't agree with Quantum Theory because it suggests there is an element of probability in existence - which I don't consider there to be. If Evo Man were able to see and understand Batman completely - he would forsee his every action. Even in "randomness" he'd know which attack/action Batman would take.There will always be a 100% chance you will take the action you take - because it's what you ultimately do.

[Stalking Shadow]

Supposing FEM would be able to analyze Bats to a binary level, know everything about Bats, and take all probability that Bats might come up with some sort of work around, Bats would lose if it were just one on one. However, if someone or something totally external intervened, Supes, for example, it might give Bats the crank in the data for him to win.

Also: Xan says that by his binary theory, everything is predetermined from the beginning (gross simplification). What if FEM was destined to lose anyways? He'd have to comply with the data and lose, no matter what edge he had against Bats.

[Deus ex machina, baby!]

[Blackbat]

I don't agree with Quantum Theory because it suggests there is an element of probability in existence - which I don't consider there to be. If Evo Man were able to see and understand Batman completely - he would forsee his every action. Even in "randomness" he'd know which attack/action Batman would take.There will always be a 100% chance you will take the action you take - because it's what you ultimately do.

If that's the case then why is this even a discussion? lol

Batman has no chance if his every action is predetermined and Evo Man already knows what is going to happen before Batman does. That's like me going through Doom with God Mode, Infinite Ammo and Clipping turned on.

[Gold Rush]

Actually that's untrue. You use about 10% at a time, but that doesn't mean you don't use atleast 99% of your brain through out your life.


First off, Solario is mostly right. Let's shoot down this Urban Legend, shall we? (I have a particular interest/fondness in them, or rather debunking them).

Follow the link :
Do we really use just ten-percent of our brains? (http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm)

Secondly, while there are theories to put the universe in order (or give/explain order to the universe) and theories/beliefs that everything is chaotic and unknowable, while all interesting (particularly to me, philosophically), they are kinda moot in my book. I try to be easy-going in believing either or, because you will have one dedicated camp who likes order and the other who believes in chaos (sorta like Doctor Fate's world!

Both have good arguements, however...

This is a discussion about Batman vs. The evolved brain with all his moves programmed in. While I don't read much (but folks seem to ask questions over what little I have read...), this question has, more or less, been answered in comic form.

Look ye to the JLA TPB : World War Three. (I forget what issues this mini-series ran through; it is during Morrisson's run).

In it, Doctor Prometheus boots in a CD that contains all of Batman's moves in order to beat him. There is some mention before the actual figting begins that this is not the first time he has done this against Batman (and won?). In this (re?-)match, Batman wins (although, it is through subterfuge; he slips a different disc in). Now, while Prometheus is a bit of a lamer in my book, it kinda answers the question a bit.

But, what the heck, let's carry this one further, to the semi-forgettable JLA vs. Wildcats (another TPB I picked up awhile ago). In this adventure, the JLA faces off against the Lord of Time called "Epoch". He amasses so many upgrades and "things" that his brain/conciousness expands that he knows everything. Of course, his main goal is to rule the world (although with all that new-found boundless intellect, it's kinda lame. Why not go after the universe of space/time continuity? :chuckle: ). So, he plans/programs himself for every eventuality to defeat the JLA. The JLA knows this, so what do they do? They "recruit" another set of heroes (Wildcats) to fight against him!

Is this a clear cut case of "Batman/JLA defeating the perfect know-it-all (Binary) mind? It depends on your outlook. Some like a more personally involved defeat and others don't mind this kind of subterfuge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Gold Rush

(Finding time off from RL at work (and a new DOC :WE addiction)to finally visit the old CoHguru forums!)

[Druid]

Actually that's untrue. You use about 10% at a time, but that doesn't mean you don't use atleast 99% of your brain through out your life.

Meanwhile I'm much more interested in our so-called "Junk DNA" (the supposed leftovers from our evolution) than this.


In an ironic, if somewhat unrelated point, scientists have discovered the gene for cancer. It is called "pokemon"

[The Widowed]

If that's the case then why is this even a discussion? lol

Batman has no chance if his every action is predetermined and Evo Man already knows what is going to happen before Batman does. That's like me going through Doom with God Mode, Infinite Ammo and Clipping turned on.
And Allmap. Don't forget the all-knowing :IDDT: code. ;)

[Meltman]

Does anyone else have a problem with the assumption that it's possible TO evolve that far? Or whether or not that would be the ultimate evolution of man? (Or that fact that you really can't evolve within one generation as it takes the combination and recombination of dna and the occasional mutation occuring during reproduction to facilitate evolution. Being immortal and living an infinite lifespan isn't going to make your dna magically change.)

[Gold Rush]

Does anyone else have a problem with the assumption that it's possible TO evolve that far? Or whether or not that would be the ultimate evolution of man? (Or that fact that you really can't evolve within one generation as it takes the combination and recombination of dna and the occasional mutation occuring during reproduction to facilitate evolution. Being immortal and living an infinite lifespan isn't going to make your dna magically change.)

Well, speaking in terms of a comic book or a 1950's movie, no, I don't have a problem with it. ;)

As far as reality and the rest of it. I am of two camps. I can accept it in terms if something was drastically forced or changed upon the subject in question by means beyond my comprehension. (Or maybe I should bring up yet another time travel theory that I could use to accept this; I stayed out of the time travel debate for that very reason; too many danged crazy things that could/could not happen!). Actually, perhaps in the FAR future, such evolutions and changes could be routine, even done on the same level as "fashion statements".

However, I prefer this view: The grounded in the here-and-now view, which I tend to lean toward more. You can't do it currently. People's imaginations have grown too wild as to guess this and go for that. There are set things in a natural world and if you go too far the other way, nature zaps you and returns things to a semblance of what they were.

But, like I said, that is the "here-and-now" viewpoint, similiar to the my views of waiting to see if Hugh Jackman will somehow show up at my place and then we go bar-hopping or me winning the Mega Millions Lotery. Sure, it *could* happen, but the odds are so against it, why wait for it?

You did ask about evolution, not quite the "Binary-Man" sort of thing Xan started out with, but I also raised it up in my last post, so I am as guilty as anyone for derailling this roller coaster off it's wheels. :) The future can be nebulous. There are many paths to take in becoming "evolved". Can one ever be truly evolved? Is it a never-ending thing or does it somehow continue on beyond our imaginations? Can one become so evolved that they turn into a being of light/energy (as Star Trek seems to suggest) or is there more beyond that? Maybe it is conciousness, each of us moving to become our own universe and galaxy, our brains functioning on physics type of level as planets move and the solar wind is the blood pumping in our bodies? Would our brains seemingly atrophy and become autonomous or would it only SEEM like they had from our those of limited point of view that have yet to evolve? It could be where we become our own galaxy and creators of such and even more (although, personally, I can't see how the Marvel universe and the DC universe can have a lusty make-out session if they are so far above the lower order as they did in the JLA vs. Avengers comic :p ).

There is the old view that suppossedly our brains expand and our body shrivels up, because we do not need them anymore, but I sorta question this view. It works if you truly believe in ESP and Telekinisis and I personally don't (which is why I don't like such characters with these types of powers in comics, such as Jean Grey : Too wonky for my own taste!).

I think as mankind goes into the future and "evolve" (or just keep inventing new things, either to change or supplement our own minds), the term and goals for full evolution will change and evolve as well.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Gold Rush

(Quite frankly, wouldn't one prefer to get 'knackered' now and not worry about evolving?)

[sheld0n]

Does anyone else have a problem with the assumption that it's possible TO evolve that far? Or whether or not that would be the ultimate evolution of man? (Or that fact that you really can't evolve within one generation as it takes the combination and recombination of dna and the occasional mutation occuring during reproduction to facilitate evolution. Being immortal and living an infinite lifespan isn't going to make your dna magically change.)


Heck, some people likely have a problem with the notion of evolution in general.

But thats not the point.
If this person came to the battle area with all this ready data, he can try predicting Batman's moves, but he can't know what will happen for sure, wether or not Batman will do something predictible (kind of a "i know that you know" thing), because he simply doesnt read his mind.
Now, if there was a chain of actions that Batman usually takes, then this person would have bigger chances at predicting what will happen next, but the way things are normally, he is only left with a bunch of statistics that only give a general, nebulous idea of what could Batman do. Which dont include totally unusual things like Batman sending a robot dressed as him and coming in the clothes of a vagabond himself, for example.

(which is sort of how Azrael defeated the Tax Man btw, by creating false targets)