PETA, the Good, the Bad, or the Ugly?

[sheld0n]

yay, the debates forum is back!

Ahem, ok, so heres the deal: PETA (aka People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) is an organization that fights for animal rights all over the world, by creating demonstrations, suing companies and defaming them.
Their goal is noble, no doubt and they certainly brought some progress to the world on this field, but are all their actions really justified?

They may look nice and pretty on first sight, but lets not forget fiascos such as Keiko the killer whale (the one from Free Willy), who was freed thanks to public pressure generated by PETA, and who kept trying to return to its artificial environnement, but was forced out.

Also, their more recent actions show PETA from a little less heroic angle. Specifically, their demonstrations against killing seals in Canada.
The canadian image they managed to create is that of sadistic bastards who grin as they smack poor little seals with baseball bats in the head. It looks grotesque, as if these people took pleasure from killing these animals in the most barbaric way possible.
People in Europe made a big scandal out of it, and they consider it a great shame for Canada.
But the truth is, that the above is nothing more than the image created by PETA, who, like any other organization, needs money to function (and people gladly give donations when they hear about how brutally the seals are killed).

Obviously, they arent lying, the seals are indeed killed with bats, but they neglect to mention two important factors in this situation:
-Canada has too many seals, we need to kill a certain ammount of them to maintain the balance in the environnement.
-The hunters use special bats, each of them is approved and verified to work properly. The thing is, seals have very fragile skulls, and hitting them in the head very hard is the least painful way to kill them, since they die before they can feel anything. This is a result of studies made by the canadian government to find whats the best weapon for them.

Nobody can say PETA didnt know this, but they continued their campaign anyway, since they needed the money.


Obviously, as i said before, PETA did many good things in the world, including the fight against KFC and battling in the good of animal rights, including the fight against pet brutality.


So, what is your opinion on the subject? In the end, does the fact that PETA did alot of good in the name of animals justify their little purpuseful miscalculations, or perhaps should something be done about their propaganda?


Now that i wrote it, this post doesnt seem fence-sitting'ish enough for a start of a thread, but i would really like to hear your opinion on this.

[Plasma Wisp]

THe problem with PETA is blatently obvious. They care for the cute animals or the easy ones people care about. I have yet heard of the maltreatment of the endangered shark in the japanese culture that continues to fish this beautiful, yet deadly creature to death. I don't hear about any PETA protesters in India or in the local area that sell Tiger parts on the black market.

Nothing on saving Kangaroos or other Austrailian animals being killed in the traps and fences that scatter along the outback. The problem with PETA is the members only care for the cute animals, or animals WE eat. My step-brother is an avid equal animal rights, but cares little for his dog, and had his pet Siamese fighting fish die from lack of care.

PETA is considered cool in certain circles so it's trendy when supposedly.

[coldcut]

THe problem with PETA is blatently obvious. They care for the cute animals or the easy ones people care about. I have yet heard of the maltreatment of the endangered shark in the japanese culture that continues to fish this beautiful, yet deadly creature to death. I don't hear about any PETA protesters in India or in the local area that sell Tiger parts on the black market.

Nothing on saving Kangaroos or other Austrailian animals being killed in the traps and fences that scatter along the outback. The problem with PETA is the members only care for the cute animals, or animals WE eat. My step-brother is an avid equal animal rights, but cares little for his dog, and had his pet Siamese fighting fish die from lack of care.

PETA is considered cool in certain circles so it's trendy when supposedly.

Bingo. They're not even environmentalists. They're cause hounds who are more after attention than whatever bizarre philosophy of animal equality they're actually supposed to be pushing.

[Akamaz]

here's a story a favorite author of mine wrote regarding PETA like "environmentalists"

http://www.baen.com/library/0671878662/0671878662.htm

check out chapter 3.

By the way, the bopok is "Fiddler Fair" By Mercedes Lackey.

[BugBite]

I like the OTHER PETA better: People for the Eating of Tasty Animals.

[MikeKAY]

I like the OTHER PETA better: People for the Eating of Tasty Animals.


Ya, me too. I'm a proud member. :D

[Quakester]

I like the OTHER PETA better: People for the Eating of Tasty Animals.

Never thought I'd say this but I agree with Bugsy. :p

[Tsarmina]

Hehehe. Leave it to Bugsy to show up as soon as there is a debate begun. :P

[MikeKAY]

Hehehe. Leave it to Bugsy to show up as soon as there is a debate begun. :P

I was thinking the exact same thing...

[Dark AngelHawk]

I agree with them on some levels but then again I don't.

I would not however, watch someone kill any animal for "just cause."

My theory is if you're going to kill it, use it, eat it, don't just throw it away after you kill it. That's a wasted life!

Now about controling population....I hate to say this but thats a "human" term.....we don't control any population...I mean look at us as humans, we are over populating the planet.

What "controling population" is as I see it is making room for more people, which to me seems unfair.

But I guess in the end only humans will be left and then it'll be complete choas.

I could rant forever on this but here's just somethings as I see it that bother me on the subject. I know I would protect an animal life if it was going to just be destroyed, and I have in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

[Akamaz]

Does anyone know which animal deliberately sets out to hunt for man to eat? i'll tell you... it's MAN. popultion control means we need more cannibals! bring back the cannibals!

[Kurai Inago]

Screw Cannibals, we need Zombies......

And on a more serious note,

I don't hate PETA, however, I don't really agree with the methods through which they try to get people to join their cause. My sister and one of my friends have recently been pulled in by PETA's tactics, and after viewing the material which brought them in, I realized that is was just a bunch of lies, overexaggerations and Slander. Seriously, you shouldn't boycott KFC in it's entirety because a few guys on a farm were mean to the chickens. My sister believes that this is actually a vaild argument to boycott them. The employees were fired for this, and no further reports of any incedents have been made. And yet PETA still boycotts them.... Sorry, only real good example I had available...

[MikeKAY]

I agree with them on some levels but then again I don't.

I would not however, watch someone kill any animal for "just cause."

My theory is if you're going to kill it, use it, eat it, don't just throw it away after you kill it. That's a wasted life!

Now about controling population....I hate to say this but thats a "human" term.....we don't control any population...I mean look at us as humans, we are over populating the planet.

What "controling population" is as I see it is making room for more people, which to me seems unfair.

But I guess in the end only humans will be left and then it'll be complete choas.

I could rant forever on this but here's just somethings as I see it that bother me on the subject. I know I would protect an animal life if it was going to just be destroyed, and I have in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

The seals up there aren't killed "just cause," they ARE eaten and the fur is used or sold. It isn't like they just club them and leave them on the ice. Also, population control is a viably excuse for two reasons. One, they no longer have any natural predators (which may actually be our fault) so they can breed with no risk, this also goes a long way in unbalancing the fish populations which is lacking on their account. Second, if in some alternate reality humans did not exist, another animal WOULD be capably of affecting the ecosystem on a whim and would most likely overpopulate to the extent humans do. Man is a part of the ecosystem, even if it is long stretch above everything else. Animals can go extinct without human intervention, other predators and the environment probably have claimed more species then we have. Their really isn't a chance in hell for us to be the ONLY species alive.

I will certainly agree that being wasteful is ‘wrong’ (if you could classify it as such) but this isn’t being wasteful. People will benefit in the short term, fish will once again thrive and support our industry, and when the seals come back (which they will as the whole point of seal clubbing is NOT to drive them extinct) the process will repeat itself.

In this particular situation, PETA is doing more to unbalance the ecosystem then the people doing the clubbing.

[Lorash]

here's a story a favorite author of mine wrote regarding PETA like "environmentalists"

http://www.baen.com/library/0671878662/0671878662.htm

check out chapter 3.

By the way, the bopok is "Fiddler Fair" By Mercedes Lackey.

She plays CoH, as an aside.

[coldcut]

No kidding. How do you know that?

[Malibu Sally]

No kidding. How do you know that?

She got "outted" on the official forums. I forgot what her board name is though. :cool:

[coldcut]

Somebody mind PMing me what her name was? I'm not going to bother her, I'm just interested in what sort of character she tools around in.

[Tsarmina]

She plays CoH... Really?? Wow. I knew she was cool but now she's even cooler!! :cool:

[Akamaz]

heh that's great! maybe i should hope to look for a superhero short story sometime

[inde]

I would not however, watch someone kill any animal for "just cause."

My theory is if you're going to kill it, use it, eat it, don't just throw it away after you kill it. That's a wasted life!

Now about controling population....I hate to say this but thats a "human" term.....we don't control any population...I mean look at us as humans, we are over populating the planet.

I agree. If you are going to eat it and use its skin/hide/fur etc as a function, fine. But all this fur craze is just disgusting - taking another life just for whats on its body is horrible.

I also want to see the proof - that the seal population is harming the fish population, and so forth. I am not going to believe the lobbyists nor PETA here.

[Xanatos]

Just a reminder. This discussion is about PETA - animal rights and the genuine who believe in them are hardly represented by the 'fadist' group that is PETA. PETA reminds me of one of my friends younger sisters. She says she's a vegetarian - but doesn't mind eating fish as they're not cute.

I've been doing allot of research into animal testing, and have yet to make up my mind on it. On one hand it helps humans (and in some cases animals) in MANY ways. But on the other hand it is speciesist, and follows the same train of thought as sexism and racism. Animals can feel emotions, just to a lesser degree to humans. To paraphrase a famous poem:

'They came for the animals, but I did not speak up for I was not an animal"

[coldcut]

"They came for the animals, but I did not speak up for my steak sandwich was still in the microwave."

There's no reason to make animal testing unneccesarily cruel or just plain unneccesary, but at some point you have to value a human life over an animal's, or a lot of animals.

[Remianen]

I despise PETA and have gone on record about it. I live in New York City and have had several run-ins with these people, none of which ended positively. Let's put it like this: if I pay $5,000 for a fur coat and some flunkie decides to toss red paint on it (ruining it), I hope said flunkie is prepared to defend himself. This happened to a friend of mine and his fiancee (at the time) a few years back as they were walking down Fifth Avenue.

There's something that the ground-level, PETA groupies fail to accept or realize. That being, most animals who are regularly killed for their meat/fur/entrails, are raised specifically for that purpose. Fisheries, hatcheries, fur-producing animals, all raised specifically for their end purpose. Some companies breeding minks or chinchillas to make coats out of (and selling the meat and entrails to food producers) doesn't harm the ecosystem at all.

I believe PETA has taken the same turn Greenpeace did a decade ago. They went from peaceful, grassroots beginnings to suburbanite militant within the span of a few years. As with most things (music, movies, etc), controversy and sex sells. But since animal rights has absolutely no overt sex appeal, they have to use controversy. Half truths and outright lies are the order of the day. I don't agree with their antics or policies since, in this country, you have to have political clout to get your agenda catered to. That clout can come from money (i.e. the trial lawyers lobby, etc) or sheer numbers of supporters (see: the black and hispanic demographic segments and AARP). Without that, you just come off as whiny, petulant brats IMO.

I'm an animal lover. Especially animals of the aquatic variety. However, I've never been a sheep a day in my life so rather than blindly accept someone's word on something, I educate myself on issues. So reading the literature for PETA or Planned Parenthood or the NRA isn't a rallying cry for me because I know these things are advertising and propaganda as much as anything else. But, there are many people around the world just aching to find a cause they can get behind (and look 'cool' doing).

[Joe Schmoe]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=509&ncid=509&e=39&u=/ap/20050412/ap_on_bi_ge/petco_peta

I think PETA are.. in fact crazy. Rem, sucks what happened to your friends. I find most lobby groups like this nuts.

[Xanatos]

YOu think PETA are mad - check out the British version - called 'ALF'.

[Vendel]

YOu think PETA are mad - check out the British version - called 'ALF'.

If any of you have seen "Penn and Tellers:Bull****" on Showtime you found out how PETA really works.

They support (not publicly of course) the ALF and its members. Groups like the ALF and the ELF are very dangrous groups. And they have the backing of socialy acceptiable groups like PETA and Greenpeace.

[Alumette]

Extremism on anything is ridiculous and ends up harming the cause more than it furthers it.

Several years ago a PETA group broke into a mink farm and let the minks loose, only to have thousands of them run across the highway and get flattened.

Way to save the minks.

I despise animal cruelty and am actively involved in a couple of organizations that protect animals from cruelty (not PETA, though!). However, I also eat meat (locally-raised and organic only, for the most part), see nothing wrong with the wearing of fur (provided it comes from animals who aren't endangered), and am not against hunting (provided the hunting is done safely and within the bounds of the law).

My personal feeling on PETA is it is an oganization that has gone too far, taken its cause to such an extreme that they are doing more harm than good.

[BugBite]

Liberate Apes Before Imprisoning Apes!

[AfterglowNoMore]

If any of you have seen "Penn and Tellers:Bull****" on Showtime you found out how PETA really works.

They support (not publicly of course) the ALF and its members. Groups like the ALF and the ELF are very dangrous groups. And they have the backing of socialy acceptiable groups like PETA and Greenpeace.
Love that show, especially how the head of PETA has had medical treatments that were tested on animals, and use animal products for the medication. Not to mention that PETA ends up euthenizing most of the animals that they take in.

[doc thunder]

is this about pamela anderson and that boycott of kfc.
hey doesnt peta lie about things to get there way. that what i learned on south park.

[Poison]

Just wanted to add this... :P :shinner:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/CoHPoison/rando.jpg

[Malibu Sally]

Scuze me whilst I stare and slobber.....................


Wow.......................


*drool*


Very nice, Poison! Very nice indeed. Now I know that Rand does not shave down there! :jawdrop: :banana3: :sally:

[WingedAvenger]

So, the carpet does match the drapes!

...

... No I wasn't staring ...

:notme:

[Sable Phoenix]

Just a side note on the "overpopulating" of the Earth by humans, since it tends to go hand in hand with this type of discussion:

Did you know you could give every human being on the planet one acre of land and still fit them all into the state of Texas? Humans are tiny. The vast majority of the planet has never been touched by humanity and never will be. Overpopulation is a fabrication used to stir up fear or sympathy.