Aura of Fear

[Esbat]

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3013565&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#3013565

Heres a link to an idea I had on how to help give blasters a slight boost to their survivability.

Questions, comments, crits welcome here and at the main boards.

[Malibu Sally]

A friend of mine has been having trouble keeping her blaster alive and has pretty much given up on her at the latter stages of the game.

Who is this "friend" of yours? Anyone I know? Certainly you don't mean me; I have not yet completely given up.:lol:

Seriously, I don't know if a fear factor is needed. Of all the arguments about what blasters need, the one I like the best is: Let range TRULY be a defense... in other words, the farther away I am, the harder I am to hit. :)

[Esbat]

You codebreaker you...

It was partially based on you yes but its a more universal form of the words "she".

Lengthening the range for blasters would help too but I figure if you guys and gals get some melee defense in the mean time it might help a tad. :shinner:

[inkblaster]

I do like the concept of giving blasters some of shields from the dark, fire, ice armor sets, that don't really give protection. This cause mobs to not want to stand close to you and keep punching if they do DoT, or run away, or not hit as good like with cloaking device. Take away 1 or 2 or 5 of the melee attacks, and replace with some controls/shields and we're good.

[Grae Knight]

I don't seem to have the problems most blasters have. Commander Pyro is a 22nd level Fire Blast/Fire Manipulation Blaster and I rarely collect debt. Granted, I do solo alot so I am able to do the hit and run strategy quite a bit. My main defense also is range and hover. I have a range enhancement on all my range attacks and I have fire sword fully slotted for when they do get close. Hover I have slotted for defense not flight speed. I have to say I am quite happy with the build and have not had any needs for respecs to this point. My Peacebringer on the other hand is a debt magnet, but that is a story for another day.

[Malibu Sally]

I felt exactly the same way at level 22 Grae. The real problems with blasters don't get felt until level 40.(there are a few hints around level 38, but 40 is where they really kick in)

If you want a taste of how things are, crank up your mission difficulty to invincible. Then, when you run your missions, imagine those reds and oranges as yellows and whites... Then imagine that every time you miss, you get stunned, slept, and held while the minions swat you for 2/3 of your hit points per shot.

Yeah... I poo-poo'd blaster complaints too way back in the day. :)

[Bagman]

You could get Presence and go for Invoke Panic. I've thought of it myself as I think it fits my character well.

[Randomus]

The problem with range=defense is that is would have to work both ways, and you'd end up missing THEM all the time too.

[Grae Knight]

Good point Sally. I am running at Tenacious so I guess if I "beefed" up the difficulty I would feel it. I have loading up on breakfrees before missions because stun/sleep/helds are when I seem to fall. I am probably going with phase shift later on to deal with the mega-squishiness at higher levels. I guess then I will have to be more team oriented. This is why I love CoHGuru, best advice around.. :singdance :banana3: :banana:

[Quakester]

Good point Sally. I am running at Tenacious so I guess if I "beefed" up the difficulty I would feel it. I have loading up on breakfrees before missions because stun/sleep/helds are when I seem to fall. I am probably going with phase shift later on to deal with the mega-squishiness at higher levels. I guess then I will have to be more team oriented. This is why I love CoHGuru, best advice around.. :singdance :banana3: :banana:

Ah yes. You do not truly know the pain of blasterdom until 40. Then it slaps you in the face. :p

[vyxzuw]

Yes, adding some defensive powers is useful.

Adding the range=defense ability would require too much coding. However, they could give blasters some range def/res abilities. (Like Focused Senses.) This would allow blasters to survive stray shots, or alpha strikes from bad pulls, while still giving them a squishy aspect. (Like the minions two-shotting Sally, in melee.)

This would also give immobilizes a use. Yes, in the early game, where the enemies have melee and range, range=defense (or res) since the range is weaker than the melee attacks. However, how immobilizing a Rikti Drone, does SQUAT! They ONLY have range attacks, and could care less if they are in melee or range...and in fact, seem to prefer range.

Also, they should change AoE attacks into range and melee AoE.

One example of a def power, would be Magnetic Field (Electric Manipulation) which would give some Range def and AoE Range Def. Think of Dune's Force Fields. They stop high velocity attacks, but slow attacks, like a sword thrust, will penetrate it.

Also remember, as the scrappers pointed out with res, having less hit points, means that having a high Res will STILL be lower than scrappers and tanks. (You can leave the res cap as is, though.)

[Grae Knight]

Pyro is actually my first blaster, been playing scrappers and tankers up til now so getting hit and feeling it is kind of new for me. I am assuming the fighting pool is also great for blasters.

[Esbat]

blasters don't get felt until level 40 :)

Well bring them earlier on around the Dog early on in their career. I'm sure they'll get felt right up!

[Malibu Sally]

Pyro is actually my first blaster, been playing scrappers and tankers up til now so getting hit and feeling it is kind of new for me. I am assuming the fighting pool is also great for blasters.

I beleive the benefit from pools like fighting and such are less(much less) for blasters, defenders and controllers than they are for tanks and scrappers. Not sure though. If you see Darknesse, ask him. He has the numbers pretty much committed to memory.

The way I saw it, in order to get any appreciable defensive benefit from the pools, I'd have to so cripple my offensive output from my primary and secondary sets(by using those slots on the pools) as to make the meager defenses not worth it.

[Jade_Dragon]

One way to test out the usefulness this idea, as suggested, is to get Invoke Panic. Considering how useful I found Intimidation to my Scrapper, I wouldn't underestimate it.

However, you would have to sacrifice a couple of Powers to get the prerequisites for Invoke Panic. (although Intimidate might be useful in its own right) So it's not really more than just a test. To include it as an archetype specific effect, say along with damage from attacks, like with punchvoke, would obviously be more powerful since you would also still have your current abilities.

Personally, I'm undecided on the idea. On the one hand, it is a more control-oriented solution. Cowered foes do not attack unless attacked first, so it is therefore superior to Immobilize or Attack Rate Slow for a Blaster, of high enough level that it can be dangerous to even take one hit. However, unlike punch-voke or an attack oriented "blocking shot", it is hard to explain in the concept. Foes attacked by a ranged attacker will usually not fear him, but will attempt to take him out, unless a more visible target gets in the way.

The problem with any solution that simply avoids attack is that it doesn't do anything to protect you when you are attacked. You want to get out of range? You're basically hover sniping. You want to hold your foe? You die if you miss. You want high Defense? You die if he DOESN'T miss. All solutions that basically revolve around "Don't hurt me!!!" are risky, at best.

A Blaster at 22-30 should be essentially the blueprint for ANY Blaster. You want to stay out of melee because getting hit in melee hurts. You can't really avoid a lot of damage, but what you're taking, compared to your hit points, is low enough that even though you might be on your last legs by the time you finish the fight, you can at least finish it. You can drop just about anything in one or two shots, but crowds require a lot of dodging and moving because even with AoEs, you've got to pick your targets and react when threats come at you. That's about as "glass" as the "glass cannon" should be.

[The Widowed]

I beleive the benefit from pools like fighting and such are less(much less) for blasters, defenders and controllers than they are for tanks and scrappers. Not sure though. If you see Darknesse, ask him. He has the numbers pretty much committed to memory.
Why did he stop coming to these forums, anyway? :think:

[Tarkenchi]

Why did he stop coming to these forums, anyway? :think:

When the :symbol: went up, he posted "I'm home" haven't 'eard from 'im since.

[Mahaf]

When the :symbol: went up, he posted "I'm home" haven't 'eard from 'im since.
So is Paragoncity.com like Voldermort now? It that should not be named! :lol:

[Tarkenchi]

So is Paragoncity.com like Voldermort now? It that should not be named! :lol:

It was poisons idea, he edits your posts if you use the name... :symbol:

[Esbat]

One way to test out the usefulness this idea, as suggested, is to get Invoke Panic. Considering how useful I found Intimidation to my Scrapper, I wouldn't underestimate it.

However, you would have to sacrifice a couple of Powers to get the prerequisites for Invoke Panic. (although Intimidate might be useful in its own right) So it's not really more than just a test. To include it as an archetype specific effect, say along with damage from attacks, like with punchvoke, would obviously be more powerful since you would also still have your current abilities.

Personally, I'm undecided on the idea. On the one hand, it is a more control-oriented solution. Cowered foes do not attack unless attacked first, so it is therefore superior to Immobilize or Attack Rate Slow for a Blaster, of high enough level that it can be dangerous to even take one hit. However, unlike punch-voke or an attack oriented "blocking shot", it is hard to explain in the concept. Foes attacked by a ranged attacker will usually not fear him, but will attempt to take him out, unless a more visible target gets in the way.

The problem with any solution that simply avoids attack is that it doesn't do anything to protect you when you are attacked. You want to get out of range? You're basically hover sniping. You want to hold your foe? You die if you miss. You want high Defense? You die if he DOESN'T miss. All solutions that basically revolve around "Don't hurt me!!!" are risky, at best.

A Blaster at 22-30 should be essentially the blueprint for ANY Blaster. You want to stay out of melee because getting hit in melee hurts. You can't really avoid a lot of damage, but what you're taking, compared to your hit points, is low enough that even though you might be on your last legs by the time you finish the fight, you can at least finish it. You can drop just about anything in one or two shots, but crowds require a lot of dodging and moving because even with AoEs, you've got to pick your targets and react when threats come at you. That's about as "glass" as the "glass cannon" should be.

A nice ON TOPIC response... :rolleyes:

Thanks for the heads up, I think I'll test that out with a blaster on Justice server

[iggy880]

Seriously, I don't know if a fear factor is needed. Of all the arguments about what blasters need, the one I like the best is: Let range TRULY be a defense... in other words, the farther away I am, the harder I am to hit. :)

I agree with the defense and lack of accuracy from a distance Sally, but we should also have higher accuracy, possibly even the further away we are for the help.

[Jade_Dragon]

I agree with the defense and lack of accuracy from a distance Sally, but we should also have higher accuracy, possibly even the further away we are for the help.

Actually, I think the lesser damage at range is supposed to reflect the fact that it is harder to hit someone who is at a range, and moving. In all honesty, reduced accuracy would probably be a better implementation than reduced damage in this game. Just because of the way the game works.

However, that would basically mean that you would be hit less often, but take more damage when you were hit, leaving you with the same kind of risk you get with high Defense. While reduced damage is not as realistic, it does give you more time to react and change your strategy as you take damage. And you can say that at a distance you can partially dodge and roll with the blows to take less damage.

Putting it another way, a weapon user in melee range can strike right for your heart, and you've got very little time to react. At range, the attacker has a much smaller target, and you're weaving and dodging which could throw off his aim. He may still hit you, but not in the heart.

Personally, I would prefer to reverse the way of looking at it. Instead of saying that accuracy decreases with range, I would say that Blasters, because they deal with ranged attacks all the time, learn to dodge better at range. They take evasive action, use cover, and keep moving so as to make themselves a difficult target. It's a learned skill, which really works it better into an RPG system.