Smoking in Movies, Should it Stay or Should it Go?

[MajorMarvel]

Decided to do a debate on somthing little that most people wont take personally. Meaning/....omg! a sensible Debate? Can it exist? :P

I will start. I vote yes. As of now there is smoking, and Smoking shouldnt be taken out because I consider each movie, unless its Scifi or fantasy, to be period pieces. Back in the 40s, everybody smoked, so if you do a movie about the 40s, the characters should smoke. not constantly but it needs to be realistic. I mean, what would LOTR be without the pipes and the pipeweed. would be missing one of the big hobbit things. When smoking is officially baned and gone, then we can do it without it being in film, but as of now? should stay.

[Solos]

Why would anyone say no? This is a pretty dumb poll.

[WingedAvenger]

Gah! For a minute there, I thought you wanted to debate whether you should be able to smoke in the movie theater.

[The Rev]

Gah! For a minute there, I thought you wanted to debate whether you should be able to smoke in the movie theater.


i think we should debate on that. lol

as for the original poll, no way should smoking be taken out of movies... even at the point when smoking gets banned, if it's part of a movie, or a character, it's part of them, that's like saying "no drug use in films" drugs are illegal, and i don't condone their use in ANY way. But, they're in ALOT of movies, as part of who the character is. Murder, illegal, millions of slasher flicks out there though.

/end my 2 cents

[Knightward]

Gah! For a minute there, I thought you wanted to debate whether you should be able to smoke in the movie theater.
Doh! Me too! Didn't realize it was about the movies themselves until after voting.

I got no objection to people smoking in movies. Wouldn't be the first unhealthy or unwise thing portrayed in them.

[Noble]

I think movies should show cigarettes smoking people. that would put things in perspective

[Solario]

We're not going to stop people from making movies about people killing other people, so why should we stop them from smoking?

[Charon]

I think they shouldn't get so much prominence in films like Resident Evil and other such 'action horror' crap where the protagonist smokes throughout the entire movie for absolutely no reason except for the fact that it makes them look 'badass' which sends completely the wrong message. Smoking when smoking's needed is fine but doing it just for the hell of it to add the 'awesome' factor to some action hero is ridiculous.

[T!M]

If it adds realism to a movie, Definatly. Maybe I'm just bland but stoner movies to me are just stupid.

[Meltman]

Not that kind of smoking, T!M.

[sheld0n]

I actually agree with you guys, but just for the sake of having a decent debate:

Smoking should be banned from movies because even if it's relevant to the plot, smoking is often portrayed as a positive thing. Something that strong and assertive people do.
Even though sometimes that's the case with drugs and murder as well, those already have a well established negative connotations in our society, meanwhile cigarettes, not as much. Plus they're much more accessible.
A kid is much more likely to start smoking after seeing the main character smoke in a movie, than he is to start killing people after seeing murer on the screen.

There, maybe that will get things started...

[WingedAvenger]

As long as the kid is legally old enough to buy the cigarettes, then there's no problem with that. If the kid isn't old enough, well, his taking up smoking is the responsibility of the parents, not Hollywood.

[sheld0n]

As long as the kid is legally old enough to buy the cigarettes, then there's no problem with that.

How so? What does age have to do with it, really?
If he's so immature to imitate a fictional character by harming himself like that, then is he old enough to smoke in the first place?

[WingedAvenger]

If someone is old enough to legally buy cigarettes, then they should if that's their choice. Whether it's portrayed in movies or not is irrelevant to that point.

If he's so immature to imitate a fictional character by harming himself like that, then is he old enough to smoke in the first place?

Not my problem, nor Hollywood's. We already have a lot of rules and regulations in place to protect underage minors from being exposed to material they might not be ready for, which is fine. But there comes a time when you have say you're old enough to make your own decisions now, and let people do what they do. I don't like smoking any more then you do, but you can't protect people from themselves forever. If someone wants to poison themselves slowly with cigarettes and die of lung cancer, I say let them. If someone wants to take a gun and blow their own head off, I say let them. Just keep it away from me.

To tell Hollywood that they shouldn't have characters smoking in their movies is pure censorship of the art form, and is an attempt to punish those of us moviegoers who are responsible enough to understand the danger of cigarettes from seeing what could potentially be part of a grand vision.

[Yin]

This is someone off topic but still in the same area, is all of the sex necessary in movies? Like, I'm all for a little exposure every now and then, but honestly, I can't even go to a movie with my parents anymore because there's titties all on the screen for more than 30 seconds at any given time. Take 300 for example. Awesome movie. My dad might like that if it wasn't for that unnecessary, random sex scene that got thrown in there. Hollywood is getting a little loose with the restrictions if you ask me.

And the cigarette thing isn't going to go away. As long as they've tried to put the cap on cigarettes I doubt they'll start taking them out of movies. Cigarettes have a powerful positive connotation that relates to masculinity, sex appeal, and badass-ness. I think bigger issues is the rant I stated above. If we can start filtering some of that out so people can take their kids to movies then we can work our way down the chain here.

[Nerfed]

How so? What does age have to do with it, really?
If he's so immature to imitate a fictional character by harming himself like that, then is he old enough to smoke in the first place?
Yeah, its called "natural selection."

...or, the kid that shoves too many crayons up his nose doesn't grow up to have kids of his own.


I'm all for smoking in the movies. Honestly, I hate it when they make up swear words for cleaned up movies because they don't want kids imitating bad language... but the fact is, everyone talks that way anyway. So portraying characters as using made up or "softened" curses is unrealistic and, frankly, annoying.

[Solario]

This is someone off topic but still in the same area, is all of the sex necessary in movies? Like, I'm all for a little exposure every now and then, but honestly, I can't even go to a movie with my parents anymore because there's titties all on the screen for more than 30 seconds at any given time. Take 300 for example. Awesome movie. My dad might like that if it wasn't for that unnecessary, random sex scene that got thrown in there. Hollywood is getting a little loose with the restrictions if you ask me.

This isn't really all that different from every other action movie from the 80's. And I don't personally believe Hollywood should have any restrictions that the creators didn't impose themselves. Other than, you know, legality behind the scenes.

Sex sells. Sex is probably the least immoral thing that goes on in that movie. And the scene is somewhat necessary for the character dynamic. Also to try and diverge from the homosocial tones of the movie.

For the record I don't enjoy watching movies with my parents, that contain sex scenes, but it's not them that's being made uncomfortable, it's me. Which is a little juvenile, but still sticks for me.

[Ledgerdemain]

I see no problem with smoking in movies as long as it makes sense for the film. I tend to have that view about most things (nudity, violence, whatever...as long as it is not flat out wrong). If it makes sense for it to be there, and will help set the stage better, then go for it. If not, leave it be. The movie probably did not need it anyway. :)

[Krypto]

Eh? Why the hell shouldn't people be able to smoke in movies, I mean, why limit creative freedom? If you limit smoking, why not limit drinking? Why not take out anything that might potentially offend someone else? Might as well ban nudity too. Hell, while we're at it, lets make it so that all women wear heavy clothes and cover their faces because they're showing too much skin. When a country starts doing that kind of stuff, they're regressing into a crude, disgusting society.

I think they shouldn't get so much prominence in films like Resident Evil and other such 'action horror' crap where the protagonist smokes throughout the entire movie for absolutely no reason except for the fact that it makes them look 'badass' which sends completely the wrong message. Smoking when smoking's needed is fine but doing it just for the hell of it to add the 'awesome' factor to some action hero is ridiculous.

Yeah, but those movies are usually rated R, and at that point, the people watching should be old enough to know smoking won't automatically make them badass. If they're at an age where they're impressionable and it'll have an effect on how they view smoking, then they obviously shouldn't be in there now, should they? They're rated R for a reason. And at that point, I think smoking should be the LAST thing to worry about kids picking up on.

As for actual implementation, there's probably a very good reason why the character is smoking throughout the entire movie, because it helps calm you down. If you're running around killing zombies and **** nonstop, some cigarettes would probably be pretty useful to keep your nerves calm.

[Nerfed]

As for actual implementation, there's probably a very good reason why the character is smoking throughout the entire movie, because it helps calm you down. If you're running around killing zombies and **** nonstop, some cigarettes would probably be pretty useful to keep your nerves calm.
Word.


:|

[Dynamo-Man]

I chose "Nay" because I misread the topic. I thought it meant in theatres. :look:

In movies? Yeah. Smoking is fine.

[sheld0n]

Not my problem, nor Hollywood's. We already have a lot of rules and regulations in place to protect underage minors from being exposed to material they might not be ready for, which is fine. But there comes a time when you have say you're old enough to make your own decisions now, and let people do what they do. I don't like smoking any more then you do, but you can't protect people from themselves forever.

Now that I think about it, doesn't just about everything these days affect a movie's rating, except for presence of smoking? If a movie's rating can go up because of swear words, nudity or heavy drug use, shouldn't it go up because of heavy smoking as well?
Wouldn't that be a reasonable consensus?

[Sun-Scarab]

Sure take it out of movies & real life, sure it looks cool but it stinks.

[Krypto]

Now that I think about it, doesn't just about everything these days affect a movie's rating, except for presence of smoking? If a movie's rating can go up because of swear words, nudity or heavy drug use, shouldn't it go up because of heavy smoking as well?
Wouldn't that be a reasonable consensus?

No, because it doesn't go up because of drinking. Drug use is an illegal activity, whereas smoking and drinking isn't.

[sheld0n]

Swear words aren't illegal either, but it does go up because of them, doesn't it?

[Knightward]

Considering the system used to rate movies would be more reasonable if the rating were picked completely at random....

[WingedAvenger]

Now that I think about it, doesn't just about everything these days affect a movie's rating, except for presence of smoking? If a movie's rating can go up because of swear words, nudity or heavy drug use, shouldn't it go up because of heavy smoking as well?
Wouldn't that be a reasonable consensus?

Actually it does. Simply put, let me ask you this: When was the last time you saw someone smoking in a G or PG movie?

If that's not good enough, let's look at the MPAA's rating rules (http://www.mpaa.org/Ratings_Rules.pdf). This document doesn't address smoking specifically, but it does address "adult activities" and "drug use" (note: it does NOT say "illegal drug use", just "drug use"). Any movie that contains these elements, even to a light degree, merits a PG-13 at minimum.

[thebluecanary]

Gah! For a minute there, I thought you wanted to debate whether you should be able to smoke in the movie theater.

You know I totally miss read this as well. Ooops.

[Masked Revenger]

Not really contributing to the discussion, but...

A Message from a Galaxy Far, Far Away. (http://starwars.yahoo.com/videos/anti-smoking-psa?lid=1111a2222b3333c4444d5555d6666fff)

:mr: Chris

[Dynamo-Man]

Not really contributing to the discussion, but...

A Message from a Galaxy Far, Far Away. (http://starwars.yahoo.com/videos/anti-smoking-psa?lid=1111a2222b3333c4444d5555d6666fff)

:mr: Chris
I actually remember seeing that when I was a kid.

[WingedAvenger]

Not really contributing to the discussion, but...

A Message from a Galaxy Far, Far Away. (http://starwars.yahoo.com/videos/anti-smoking-psa?lid=1111a2222b3333c4444d5555d6666fff)

:mr: Chris

I love how they misspell Galaxy at the end. :lol:

[sheld0n]

Actually it does. Simply put, let me ask you this: When was the last time you saw someone smoking in a G or PG movie?

If that's not good enough, let's look at the MPAA's rating rules (http://www.mpaa.org/Ratings_Rules.pdf). This document doesn't address smoking specifically, but it does address "adult activities" and "drug use" (note: it does NOT say "illegal drug use", just "drug use"). Any movie that contains these elements, even to a light degree, merits a PG-13 at minimum.

I tried to think of a counter-argument for that, but I can't. I guess this whole thing is too much of a non-issue for me. It's definitely not controversial enough.
I tried to get a decent debate going on here, but I'm blank.
There's nothing I can say to that without defying my own principles, so gg. :thumbup:

[Tarberetta]

I personally hate smoking but voted yes.

Simply put, it's a movie. If you do that..what's next? Video games? Then what's next, violence? Open the door for one you open the door for all of them. I grew up watching shows and movies with both smoking and violence, and I do neither.

Personal responsibility starts somewhere.

[Solario]

I tried to think of a counter-argument for that, but I can't. I guess this whole thing is too much of a non-issue for me.

The counter-arguement is that drug use is way too vague. What about sugar? That's a drug. So's caffeine. How about air?

The hypocracy is that these movies' subjects are fine with endangering minors (every single kids movie ever), commit B&E and countless other illegal activities, but not smoking.

That being said, it's not that I want every Jonny Quest movie to have Hadji chain smoking opium, but it shouldn't be our decision, but the movie maker's.

And changing Lucky Luke's cigarette into a straw is ****ing retarded. Let him smoke for Jeebus' sake.

[sheld0n]

The counter-arguement is that drug use is way too vague. What about sugar? That's a drug. So's caffeine. How about air?

I guess it's that whole "things that are considered unsuitable for children" thing, so sugar and air don't really qualify. Anyway, it'd be more of an irritation than a solid argument, imo. Sorry.

Personally, I'm with the "movies are art" gang. As long as smoking isn't placed in the movie with the specific purpose of getting kids hooked, I'm fine with it...
Though even if it was, seems like technically kids shouldn't be able to see it anyway. I really can't complain.

[WingedAvenger]

The counter-arguement is that drug use is way too vague. What about sugar? That's a drug. So's caffeine. How about air?

Firstly, oxygen is not a drug. Sucrose (sugar) is more of a food rather then a drug, as it is found naturally in the food we eat anyway. Caffiene is a psychoactive drug, but off the top of my head, I can't think of any G-rated movies that feature characters dealing with an addiction to coffee.


The hypocracy is that these movies' subjects are fine with endangering minors (every single kids movie ever), commit B&E and countless other illegal activities, but not smoking.

Can you cite some specific examples of kids' movies that feature breaking and entering, and child endangerment? ("every single kids movie ever" is not good enough, I can name quite a few kids' movies that don't fit that bill).


That being said, it's not that I want every Jonny Quest movie to have Hadji chain smoking opium, but it shouldn't be our decision, but the movie maker's.

Totally. The filmmakers' should decide what is and isn't appropriate for their movies, and we as consumers should decide if the movie's content is or isn't appropriate for us.

[Solario]

Air can get you high, thus it's a drug. Sugar can get you high, thus it's a drug. Caffeine can get you high thus it's a drug. And all of them are addictive.

As for examples: The Incredibles, Jumanjii, E.T., Iron Giant, Ghost Busters, Back to the Future, Superman, Batman, Harry Potter, Jurassic Park, Home Alone and countless others. All of them are either about doing something illegal or about kids getting into danger because of a lack of parental supervision.

Of course most of these are great movies as well.

[Nerfed]

Air can get you high, thus it's a drug. Sugar can get you high, thus it's a drug. Caffeine can get you high thus it's a drug. And all of them are addictive.
Dude, if you're gonna go that route, then you might as well include water... because if you drink enough (say along the lines of 7 or 8 gallons over the course of an hour or two), you can thin out the oxygen levels in your body and gain a light-headed sense of euphoria. And, like with other drug abuse, it can kill you.

Yup. Plain old tap water.

I guess we'd better ban drinking water from films, too... for the children's sake. :neener:

[WingedAvenger]

Air can get you high, thus it's a drug. Sugar can get you high, thus it's a drug. Caffeine can get you high thus it's a drug. And all of them are addictive.

The ridiculousness of this statement is too great to bother responding to. Fortunately folks rating the movies have more common sense then to consider whether air is a drug (which it is not by any legal definition). :rolleyes:


As for examples: The Incredibles, Jumanjii, E.T., Iron Giant, Ghost Busters, Back to the Future, Superman, Batman, Harry Potter, Jurassic Park, Home Alone and countless others. All of them are either about doing something illegal or about kids getting into danger because of a lack of parental supervision.

Of those examples, Batman and Jurassic Park were rated PG-13, so they don't count as kids movies in the same sense as the others. Also, to the best of my recollection, there are no kids in danger in Ghost Busters, Superman, or Back to the Future. I've never seen Jumanji or Iron Giant, but I can say for the rest, it's not as if the child characters involved in those movies (Dash from The Incredibles, Harry Potter, and Kevin from Home Alone) are helpless. Those stories are often about the kids fighting back. Now, whether you agree or disagree that this dilutes the sense of danger these kids are in, it's still not comparible to featuring smoking in kids movies, which doesn't really happen.

[Nerfed]

The ridiculousness of this statement is too great to bother responding to.
I dunno, I thought I responded to it with equal (yet factual) rediculousness in an informative, non-condescending manner. Okay, maybe slightly condescending with that smilie I used. :rolleyes:

Of those examples, Batman and Jurassic Park were rated PG-13, so they don't count as kids movies in the same sense as the others. Also, to the best of my recollection, there are no kids in danger in Ghost Busters, Superman, or Back to the Future. I've never seen Jumanji or Iron Giant, but I can say for the rest, it's not as if the child characters involved in those movies (Dash from The Incredibles, Harry Potter, and Kevin from Home Alone) are helpless. Those stories are often about the kids fighting back. Now, whether you agree or disagree that this dilutes the sense of danger these kids are in, it's still not comparible to featuring smoking in kids movies, which doesn't really happen.
Actually, the stories with kid characters who are empowered to fight back could be considered dangerous in a sense. Children, who often feel oppressed by their parents and other authority figures, look at such characters as heroes and often emulate them in play as an outlet... of course, it goes without saying that not every kid knows where to draw the line of pretend and serious business, and some could get in some manner of trouble by emulating whatever hero/icon is trendy amongst kids at the time.

Child empowerment themes in movies can be as dangerous as films that depict grown up and even criminal behavior if the child doesn't recieve proper parenting.

For example, I had to be told --when I was 5 or 6-- that venturing out beyond the yard (and especially to school) while wearing a super hero style cape would invite trouble (bullies in the neighborhood and all). Had I not been told not to wear my cape out in public, I may have gotten my ass beaten by one of the local bullies out to show me just how super I wasn't. (Of course, this didn't dissaude me from wearing the cape; it only convinced me of the necessity to guard my secret identity closely and make sure my bright red cape wasn't showing from underneath my shirt.)




Yes... I had a Superman cape.



...and, because of proper parenting, I never tried jumping off the roof to see if it would help me fly. :P

[Solario]

The ridiculousness of this statement is too great to bother responding to. Fortunately folks rating the movies have more common sense then to consider whether air is a drug (which it is not by any legal definition). :rolleyes:


That is, of course, my point. Drug use is a vague term that if toyed with, can mean just about anything. "No illegal drug use", makes sense. "No drug use" doesn't.

And you guys are latching onto the child endangerment a bit too great, I was talking about criminal actions in children's movie. Of which there are dozens and dozens of. From conmen to clonning to vigilantism etc.

The rating extend to everything in a movie, including the bad guys.

Which is why it's stupid.