Who is stronger? Supes or Cap Marvel?

[Noble]

Who is more powerful: Superman or Captain Marvel?

[Dynamo-Man]

Well, based on Kingdom Come, I would say they are equal, but Supes has the experience that gives him an edge. So, I would give lay the odds in his favor in a fight.

[TroubleWolf]

Who is more powerful: Superman or Captain Marvel?

The Hulk.

[ThunderMace]

I Like Cap more, but Supes is stronger.
I agree with Troublewolf, The Hulk is the strongest though.
(due to "the Specialist" rule)

[Meltman]

And also because he says "Hulk is strongest there is!" And do you really want to argue with him?

[Blackbat]

The Hulk.

All of this can be argued of course. But seeing as how Superman did beat The Hulk in the Marvel/DC crossover. I think that disqaulifies The Hulk.

[Xanatos]

Well, based on Kingdom Come, I would say they are equal, but Supes has the experience that gives him an edge. So, I would give lay the odds in his favor in a fight.

How does Supes have more experience?

[Solario]

I would definently pick Cap. Marvel as the strongest, but they are both incredibly strong albeit specialized.

Cap. Marvel isn't all-powerful all the time, he is however just as strong as Superman, wiser than him and magical, which is a major problem for Supes, considering his two "weaknesses" are magic and kryptonite. (And weaknesses are in quotes, because magic isn't a weakness of his per say, but he's just as vulnerable to it as everyone else.)

Hulk is however the strongest one there is.

And Hulk says to this thread:
http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/7892370/1419156

[inkblaster]

Well, based on Kingdom Come, I would say they are equal, but Supes has the experience that gives him an edge. So, I would give lay the odds in his favor in a fight.


Um, the S in Shazam is for Solomon...., cause he's like wise. Also, in Kingdom Come, Captain Marvel kept Supes down with his thunderbolts, not the other way around, so I'd say Captain Marvel. Now Clark vs. Billy, Clark hands down.

[Blackbat]

Now Clark vs. Billy, Clark hands down.


Nice, Superman in regular street clothes V.S. A little kid. :chuckle:

[TroubleWolf]

All of this can be argued of course. But seeing as how Superman did beat The Hulk in the Marvel/DC crossover. I think that disqaulifies The Hulk.

That's a terrible argument. Those fights were based on fans' votes. They had Wolverine beating Lobo!

If I write "Soopermain looses to Batmain cause hes stooperman." And sign it "Copyright DC Comics, 2005", that doesn't lend the argument validity.

[Solario]

Easy, Superman.

'Cause Superman is such a freakin' snitch, he'd probably call Billy's mother on him, just when Billy is about to hit him.

[Tarkenchi]

That's a terrible argument. Those fights were based on fans' votes. They had Wolverine beating Lobo!

If I write "Soopermain looses to Batmain cause hes stooperman." And sign it "Copyright DC Comics, 2005", that doesn't lend the argument validity.


OHH! Spongebob VS Superman... You know who would win? Spongebob, Why? Because cartoons have a bigger fanbase!:P

[Blackbat]

That's a terrible argument. Those fights were based on fans' votes. They had Wolverine beating Lobo!

If I write "Soopermain looses to Batmain cause hes stooperman." And sign it "Copyright DC Comics, 2005", that doesn't lend the argument validity.


Well, the fact that DC and Marvel DID approve it means everything. What's the difference between your perception of what would happen being published and what actually was published via fan votes? No matter if you think it's stupid or not.

Like I said, this arguement will go on forever because everyone has their own view of what would happen. So all we really have to go on is past issues. Hence, my comment.

[ThunderMace]

And even if it was valid, winning a fight does not = stronger. I've lost fights where I *knew* I was stronger.

[Dynamo-Man]

When I say "experience" I mean just that. Wisdom is a whole other issue. In KC, Supes beat Cap by using a cunning move. That's experience.

But, as ThunderMace stated, just beating a guy doesn't make one "stronger" then him. Then again, it may mean he's "more powerful."

You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. :)

[Sun-Scarab]

Stronger it may be Superman, i thought the closer he gets to the sun the more power he can get sinces hes kinda like a battery.

Capt. Marvel is a Spell so theres gotta be a cap on cap's power.

but if you mean who would win the fight of supes Vs. Capt. i think Marvel.
Magic effects supes like anyone else so that magic lightning bolt should do the trick .. if you go by what rules are written & not fanboyism.
(not even sure if thats a real word but its working for me)

but capt marvel does have the cooler costume. :)

[Vendel]

...........wait for it..........................wait for it..............




















SHAZAM!!!!!

[Xanatos]

What's more powerful? Shazam or the Sun?

Shazam duuuh! ;)

But as Captain Marvel has been around since the times of ancient Egypt there is no way Superman has more experience. Combat or otherwise.

[Ghost_Boy]

It's up in the air.

I mean, Superman is physically stronger, but Cap doesn't have any of Clark's annoying weaknesses. Plus, unless I'm mistaken, the Cap's powers are magical and Supes is weak against magic. I've seen both outcomes played out: in Kingdom Come, Cap puts a hurting on Superman and on JLU Superman smacks Marvel around.

I guess it's a draw.

[Solario]

When I say "experience" I mean just that. Wisdom is a whole other issue. In KC, Supes beat Cap by using a cunning move. That's experience.

*Vaguely spoiler'ish, if you haven't read Kingdom Come*

I have to disagree, that ending had nothing to do with winning a fight, and everything to do with letting the person, who had a foot in both worlds decide the fate of them.

[Mahaf]

Wait a dang minute, here.. Does Supes have his dog, Krypto, during this fight?? :lol:

[Solario]

Wait a dang minute, here.. Does Supes have his dog, Krypto, during this fight?? :lol:

Hehe, if we're dragging the whole aray of aids into this, Cap. Marvel clearly has the upperhand with that Marvelboy Marvelgirl, Marvelwoman, whatever the hell they're called. :D

[Jade_Dragon]

Well, even if one of them won one time (in some comic or whatever) who's to say that if they had a rematch the other one wouldn't win?

I would say that they would probably be evenly matched, since Captain Marvel is at least in part based on Superman. Since he was essentially created to be the same kind of character, he would probably have about the same capabilities. Then again, since Superman IS the original, he has the "prototype advantage", so to speak. The best Cap can hope for is to match him.

OTOH, Superman's capabilities have gone through more shifts over his history. Captain Marvel probably couldn't beat the "planet moving" Superman from the 1970s but the current version (especially from season one of JL where he kept getting knocked around all the time) he might have the advantage.

[Noble]

I got the idea from the Justice League Unlimited Cartoons that were on Cartoon Network when Cap. Marvel joins the league while Super Man is away on a space mission. Supes comes back, finds out, doesn't like it, and in the end they wind up slugging it out. Supes and the cap go all out too. Destorying an entire section of the city in the process. Supes wins the fight by causing Cap Marvel to get hit by his own lighting, which then turns the cap back into Billy. Otherwise it was a very evenly matched battle.

[WingedAvenger]

Superman is pretty much the all-around most powerful character in comics, so I give the edge to him. :shinner:

This shoulda been a poll.

[inkblaster]

***Spoilage***

Flipping back through the pages, Supes does just clap his hand around Caps mouth to essentiall stop him, so Supes sort of could have won there if there wasn't a nuclear missile headed their way he had to stop.

Also, the Nuclear Missile killed Captain Marvel, and Superman is generally impervious to Nuclear weaponry.

And in that storyline Cap let himself become the pawn of Lex Luthor, over decades, while Supes just said, 'Screw You Guys, I'm Goin' Home'.

But there is the essential issue that Superman is at times too powerful. I think they tried to get away from that with the Cartoon Network JL, and agree he was shoved around waaaaay too much.

[Magna Harrier]

You're going to have to let me comb through a LOT of backissues, but I remember, at one point in recent hisotry, being told that Capt. marvel was stronger than Supes, but not as fast, or as invunerable.

[Jade_Dragon]

I got the idea from the Justice League Unlimited Cartoons that were on Cartoon Network when Cap. Marvel joins the league while Super Man is away on a space mission. Supes comes back, finds out, doesn't like it, and in the end they wind up slugging it out. Supes and the cap go all out too. Destorying an entire section of the city in the process. Supes wins the fight by causing Cap Marvel to get hit by his own lighting, which then turns the cap back into Billy. Otherwise it was a very evenly matched battle.

I didn't know that was on yet. I thought it was this weekend.

[Noble]

I don't know if it was or not. I downloaded a crapload of cartoons from the Unlimited series because I no longer get satellite. Wanted to catch up on what I've missed.

[Magna Harrier]

It's aired in Canada on YTV, nd they probably ripped it to Kazaa or the like.

[Tarkenchi]

... Luke Skywalker.... he would use to force to get Cap marvel to shoot a lightninghbolt, then he would deflect it, and superman would be like "Holy ****!111oneone wtf! nerf!"

wait!

BATMAN VS LUKE SKYWALKER!

Also, shouldn't this be in the comic book section since its about 2 comic powerhouses?

[Vendel]

***Spoilage***



Also, the Nuclear Missile killed Captain Marvel, and Superman is generally impervious to Nuclear weaponry.
.



AH but my young apprentice....he said SHAZAM 3 times to blow up the bomb....that would mean he was human when it went off.

[Solario]

I got the idea from the Justice League Unlimited Cartoons that were on Cartoon Network when Cap. Marvel joins the league while Super Man is away on a space mission. Supes comes back, finds out, doesn't like it, and in the end they wind up slugging it out. Supes and the cap go all out too. Destorying an entire section of the city in the process. Supes wins the fight by causing Cap Marvel to get hit by his own lighting, which then turns the cap back into Billy. Otherwise it was a very evenly matched battle.

That's kinda weak, isn't Superman suppose to be somewhat iconic? Since when did he encourage fights? Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow?

And in that storyline Cap let himself become the pawn of Lex Luthor, over decades, while Supes just said, 'Screw You Guys, I'm Goin' Home'.

Superman quit, while Cap. Marvel was found by Lex Luthor and then manipulated and brainwashed as Billy. So in actuality Superman was probably the one, who was the least idealistic.

[Noble]

I didn't say everything that led up to the fight because I didn't want to spoil the episode that Supes and Marvel fight in. In the cartoon Marvel supports that fact that Luthor is trying to turn over a new leaf, and wants to give him the benefit of the doubt. Superman however doesn't trust Luthor, and never will. The confrontation occurs when Luthor opens a new area of a city for the poor and homeless to have a second chance of life, just like he is trying to do. Superman discovers a large device beneath the city that resembles a bomb and makes to destroy it. Marvel argues with Superman that it Luthor wouldn't do something like that. When Supes attempts to smash into the group Marvel tries to stop him nicely, but then Supes knocks him off. Then it starts getting ugly.

[Sun-Scarab]

AH but my young apprentice....he said SHAZAM 3 times to blow up the bomb....that would mean he was human when it went off.


i could never figured out Captain's ranged attck. i know he powers up to marvel with the "shazam" & i thought that when he wanted to have lightning strike somewhere he'd said it again but not turn back to human.. its weird.
i guess like with you drop caltrops O_o i just thought he chose when to turn back to a kid & it was like a shazam light switch..
(at least his underwear is on the inside!)

[inkblaster]

Well he may be switching back and forth, and that's how Supes is able to stop him by keeping his mouth shut.

It's like the transporters in Star Trek man.

[Vendel]

Well my thoughts are in the Kingdom come he is saying Shazam...the lightning is comeing down and he is getting out of the way....so it hits sups instead and sups grabed him as the last one came down...thats how he turned back into billy. But up at the bomb he was in one place. So it was hitting him also....therefor he was billy when it went off.


Class dismissed



btw I think its funny this is the longest debate we have had....almsot as much fun as a Hulk vs Juggernaut

[The Widowed]

btw I think its funny this is the longest debate we have had....almsot as much fun as a Hulk vs Juggernaut
HULK STRONGEST ONE THERE IS! :mad:

[Seadevil]

Well, the new JLU just aired. 2 things happened to me throughout the course of the episode...

1) Superman is a dick.

I understand Superman and Luthor don't mix, and the guy wouldn't instantly trust Luthor. But Marvel's suggestion of getting Atom or Steel in to take a look at it made complete, perfect sense. But instead, Superman says 'No, you're wrong! I'm Superman, and with my Super-Mechanical-Identifing-Skills, I say it's a bomb, so you must be wrong!'

2) I'm reminded just why I like Captain Marvel better than Supes. Mainly due to the fact that he is not a dick. Like Superman. Who is a huge dick.

3) (This ones relevant to the debate!) Physically, Marvel and Supes are pretty even. Marvel's lightning is the equalizer. I think two Shazambolts to Supes would've done more damage to him in the comics. That gives Marvel the edge, and why i think he would ultimately win a real throwdown with Superman.

[vyxzuw]

The question is: Who is STRONGER, not who can beat whom. (Which would be a different question.)

I think Superman is stronger, because he can do more than Cap. However, I think Cap could beat Superman. (Magic abilities.)

There is the question of, in what state would they fight? In the episode, they were fighting 'non-lethally' (which is still pretty destructive), and thus was more a fight to were the other out. (And Superman sorta cheated, by turning Cap into Billy.)

However, if Superman and Cap were fighting to the death, with no holding back...that would be another fight entirely. (Such as Superman using Heat Vision, instead of just fisticuffs.)

And anyways...Batman can beat them all.. :P (And Hulk's stronger...)

[Noble]

This is about Supes, and Cap Marvel. If you guys want to debate about anyone else's uber abilities please make another thread. I think we would all like to debate about the other heroes in more detail as it were :shinner:.

[Solario]

Superman, Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis, Pre-Desert, Post-Desert, no matter how you look at it, is a selfrightous alien asshole.

There's a reason Lex is always after him and not for instance Batman. Because Superman was given all his powers at birth by our sun, where Lex had to fight for those he possess, which is why he's such a threat to him. He didn't earn his powers like a lot of the other superheroes, excluding all the aliens.

Superman is in some ways Capitalism incarnate and in others completely anti-capitalist. He's probably much closer to the National Socialistic Ideal, than the Capitalistic.

[Gold Rush]

Well, well, well...

Such the debate. Why should we even compare TWO NOBLE HEROES WHO ARE ABOVE SUCH PETTY DIFFERENCES!!!

Anyway, on with history in comics.

Pre-Crisis, Superman has beaten the tar out of Captain Marvel, both the original and by Proxy (Captain Thunder). Of course this was a time when they put Superman up against anyone, such as they thought about doing with the 5th Rocky movie ("Rocky has fought everyone else? What else could he fight? Wait, I know! An alien! Rocky could fight an alien!" :chuckle: ) Interestingtinly enough, Superman DID lose to Muhammed Ali. :rolleyes:

I also like to point out that Superman has beat Hulk in the past and I am not counting that popularity contest of DC/Marvel's either, it happened elsewhere. Case closed! Peddle your papers elsewhere, you green-skinned cheerleaders! :P

Now, with POST-Crisis, things are different. In fact, I would say, things are a bit more ambiguous, but not too much so. Although, given the climate at DC's offices, such outcomes change at the drop of a hat.

I would give my opinion that pound per pound, they are roughly equal. That it would take a LONG time to draw out a winner. Note, I am not counting any sneaky Thunderbolt strategy that the good Captain could use, which he is limited to using when he changes back and forth into Billy, leaving him slightly vulnerable (and a target for any who fight him).

But, yes, Superman is weak against magic, especially now, more than ever. This is not counting the thunderbolts again; Marvel is powered by Magic, so, it would seem, his punches have a taint of magic on them as well.

I now point you to the first story-arc of the new Superman/Batman comic series that has been recently released in paperback form. In it, Superman does indeed go against Superman. Superman's thoughts are thus (this ain't an exact quote, but the gist of it) :

"I have fought Marvel in the past. Pound for pound, we are equal, but he would beat me in a long drawn-out fight because of his magic. I have to end this fast."

So, you see, short-term, it may be possible for Superman to win out over Marvel, but he has to end it fast, otherwise, Marvel wins out in the long run. This is accrding to what has been written recently. Who knows what may change in the future.

(Also, to point out a peculiarity, I collected some of these in issue form but did not complete the collection. During the same fight, with Batman nearby, Marvel, who was knocked out, is now Billy. He puts the kibosh on Batman by uttering Shazam and turning back to Marvel, but what I find interesting is Batman's words. In my ISSUE of the comic, Batman is surprised that Marvel is "just a boy." But in the trade paperback, this seems to have been edited to say something like "He's changed back to Billy." Off topic, but an interesting edit. I know Batman is a know-it-all, but perhaps the previous line was meant to establish how Batman found out of Marvel's identity instead of he already knowing it. However, given previous circumstances, it is not implausible that Batman found out a long time ago.)

Oh, and yeah, if you bring in the "Superman Family" (Pure-bloods; Not Steel) and the "Marvel Family", the Marvels would win out. Not that the Marvel family has been explored too much Post-Crisis.

Gold Rush

(A bit late in commenting, but liking the read)

[ChairLegOfTruth]

Since I seem to recall the big cheese sucker punching the blue boyscout out to save his life I'd have to vote for Marvel; it's that whole magic thing.

[Magna Harrier]

Oh, and yeah, if you bring in the "Superman Family" (Pure-bloods; Not Steel) and the "Marvel Family", the Marvels would win out. Not that the Marvel family has been explored too much Post-Crisis.



Gonna have to disagree with you there. They probably would win, EXCEPT for how the whole power of SHAZAM system works. When they say Captain Marvel shares hsi powers with his family, it means just that: SHARES. So if he and Mary are both in super-form at the same time, they're half as stronger. Brining CMJ, their Uncle, or ::shiver:: Hoppy the Marvel Bunny into the mix cuts it down by that much more.
It's kinda a seldom known fact nowadays, as we see so little of the Marvel Family, but it's mentioned in a few source books, and it's a big force behind what Captain Marvel does when he is possesed by Greed in the JLA/JSA crossover, IE, claim all the Marvel power for himself.

[Gold Rush]

Gonna have to disagree with you there. They probably would win, EXCEPT for how the whole power of SHAZAM system works. When they say Captain Marvel shares hsi powers with his family, it means just that: SHARES. So if he and Mary are both in super-form at the same time, they're half as stronger. Brining CMJ, their Uncle, or ::shiver:: Hoppy the Marvel Bunny into the mix cuts it down by that much more.
It's kinda a seldom known fact nowadays, as we see so little of the Marvel Family, but it's mentioned in a few source books, and it's a big force behind what Captain Marvel does when he is possesed by Greed in the JLA/JSA crossover, IE, claim all the Marvel power for himself.

You are correct! I had totally forgotten about that aspect of his power. There are even more Marvels than you mentioned, so having a Marvel army would sorely drain them all. Not sure if Black Adam applies to this power-sharing scheme. I think he may be the exception, but I can't remember for sure if he truely is.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Gold Rush

(So, to back-pedal on my earlier comment, in a Family to Family battle, even though the Marvels have the numbers, the Superman Family would have the edge power-wise)

[Magna Harrier]

I was wondering about Adam myself, but then I remembered, Balck Adam gets his power from the Egyptian Pantheon, not the Greek one, so his power is drawn from a different pool. If they both drew from the same pool, I'm sure they'd have worked it into the plot by now anyways.

[Overbite]

SUperman...the question needs to be...is there anyone who can even give him a challenge? :chuckle:

/me ripps open shirt to reveal the S sheild...

[Stan Walker]

If the question is who is stronger than i am going to have to go with Vyz...


Superman is the stronger of the 2 in my opinion


In a fight ..i am once again inclined to agreee with Vyz..


Marvel's powers are magic based and Superman has a weakness to magic..thus Marvel wins the fight

[Magna Harrier]

Well, in a handy pictorial chart in last month's Wizard, they showed Supergirl being stronger than Mary Marvel. We know Mary is as strong as Captain Marvel, and that Superman is AROUND as strong as Supergirl. (They've hinted she might be stronger.) So, in pure ability to lift heavy stuff, the big S probably wins out, although there's still a good chance of a fight going to Captain Marvel.
Of course, this same table shows Wonder Woman being stronger than Supergirl. THAT, I find hard to beleive. I know there's a big push to make her the female Superman in a lot of ways, but I don't rememer her being THAT strong.

[Valcarde]

1) Superman is a dick.

And here is the proof! (http://www.superdickery.com)

[Liquidiz]

This is the debate thats been plaguing comic book fans for years.

The better question is, who's powers would you rather have (which would of course accompany weakness he has)

Personally Capt. Marvel is one of my favourite hero, in my top 5. But Superman is stacked with powers, i'll go with Supes for which power i want.

[Solario]

If I had to chose powers I'd want Capt. Marvel, you might not be invincible all the time, but atleast your disguise isn't comprimised everytime you remove your glasses.

[Liquidiz]

If I had to chose powers I'd want Capt. Marvel, you might not be invincible all the time, but atleast your disguise isn't comprimised everytime you remove your glasses.

Yeah thats true, i would definately wear a mask...better yet I'll try and build, or get star labs to build me a Iron man like armour made out of lead...and pretend that the suit is the source of my power...so i wont have to worry about a green rock and if some super strong villain came up with a plan to defeat me by dismantling my armour he/she has another thing coming.