Regarding Marvel Online

[itsthesheppy]

I've seen the phrase "what everyone wants out of CoX but can't get" used in regards to Marvel Online, and I find it rather confusing. I have nothing but dread for the release of this game. I feel it'll go one of two ways: it'll end up like The Matrix Online, or World of Warcraft for superhero games. I see neither outcome as... good, to say the least.

Basically, there are two different ways the game can be handled. Everyone makes their own, special characters, just like in CoH. Or, everyone has the opportunity to play signature characters. In that case, chances are the first hundred players to log on will get Spidey and Wolverine and the vast majority of the later players will be playing as Meltdown or or the Whizzer or something, which would suck.

Assuming you get to make your own, independent character, how are they going to explain that the Marvel Universe is suddenly inundated with eight million new superheroes? See, that works in the context of CoH... they wrote the game lore specifically to explain the unbelievable amount of masked vigilantes running about. But what the hell does the Marvel universe need? Take New York, for example. In that one city, you have the Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Spider-Man, the Punisher... what could possibly come up that would need YOUR meager help? Because you're never, ever going to even come within binocular distance of Spider-man's league.

Also, guys like Daredevil wouldn't just hang around on a small pedestal somewhere, shelling out missions. He'd damn well go and handle them himself.

In City of Heroes, we have a fleshed out universe to operate in, independent of licensing restrictions. We have a roster of cool, brand new superheroes and supervillains. I don''t know about you, but watching heroes with names like SuperGhostKillah and AngelofHell (http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/4342/angeloflolus3.jpg) take down Doctor Doom or Magneto would push my suspension of disbelief far off the scale.

I gotta ask... what will that game provide that you can't get in CoH? Because it certainly won't be a clean slate for creativity.

[suburbanhell]

Money to developers which will in-turn provide a better overall game and services. Right now they're "testing" the Marvel Loot system on our live production servers - Salvage and Wentworths are Cryptic's unit tests for Marvel.

As far as originality goes? Won't do a thing for it, CoH is STILL the place to be.

[itsthesheppy]

CoH still gets enough foot traffic that sometimes the servers can't handle the load. that's what surprises me. In a world where your MMO either takes off or tanks, CoH is really healthy. I don't know why they don't pump it up more... Are they really just reaching out to the witless hordes?

[suburbanhell]

CoH is moderately healthy, it's no WoW, but it only has about 200k accounts -- it's the servers that are severely limited -- as Charon's RPVP events have proven, once a mere 100 people get into one zone it's all over for some players as the lag is just too much.

[TheImperial]

Money to developers which will in-turn provide a better overall game and services. Right now they're "testing" the Marvel Loot system on our live production servers - Salvage and Wentworths are Cryptic's unit tests for Marvel.

Really? That would suck if its true. It that just hearsay and speculation or is there something to back that claim up?

[suburbanhell]

It was something I had read while I9 was in beta, though I can't remember the source whether it was a magazine or an online publication.

[Jazz]

I think the speculation about "omg, CoX is just a the testing ground for MUO, and MUO is going to blow away CoX when it's released" is alot of over-the-top speculation.

When CoH was just a bunch of screenshots and promo video (ie. 2002), the speculation and anticipation was so immense that it would have been impossible for CoH to meet expectations. Part of this can be faulted on the devs who provided details about their vision of the game which turned out to be a much larger scope than they could handle. I believe the same thing is starting to happen regarding MUO.

At this point (9 months after MUO was announced), we know *less* about the specifics of MUO than we knew about CoH *on the day* CoH was announced.

Its quiet deliberate too. They don't want to say a damned thing so that they can change the scope of the project (ie. scale it back, redesign it, postpone it, etc) without upsetting any fan expectations.

With that said, here are my random predictions:

My (unsubstantiated) belief is that the final release of MUO will bear very little resemble to CoH. It will be a lot more like a massively multiplayer console game (XBox360), than what we think of as a MMO.

My suspicion is that:

a) there will be no player economy
b) the player development system (ie. levelling) will be simplier... probably a skill tree with nothing that resembles enhancers. Instead of enhancers and loot, there will be ALOT of inspiration-like powerups and temp powers.
c) there will be movement systems (ie. swinging) and vehicles
d) the players will be able to play the signature Marvel characters on a limited basis only.... ie. one shot missions.... succeeding with these one shot missions will earn special rewards that you can give to your personal character.

[MikeKAY]

I gotta ask... what will that game provide that you can't get in CoH? Because it certainly won't be a clean slate for creativity.

Quite a lot, unfortunately. I believe the fact that City of Heroes was essentially rebuilt half-way through development ultimately took a helluva toll on the quality of the code itself. Notice how much effort it takes to add new powers, update the CC system, or add new mechanics like the auction system and so forth... The game doesn't lend itself well to expansion and as Burbs pointed out, the servers are like arthritic old men with the black lung and brain cancer.

The fact is that CoH is not designed to be especially versatile. We've been using the same basic mechanics since launch with little or no truly new systems (inventions had been in the works for years before they could make it fun). What we get is new zones, new villains, new costumes, and the occasional new powerset. Cosmetics, basically.

In that sense, Marvel Universe Online IS a clean slate. It's a new system built from the ground up to be competitive with the next generation of MMOs. Speculate and criticize all you want, though I personally wouldn't recommend it seeing as we know next to nothing about the game anyway, but whatever they are working on is likely to be far beyond what they have done with CoH (and possibly more then they are even capably of doing).

[itsthesheppy]

By that token, though... what's wrong with CoH2? If you want a new project to vastly improve upon what you already have, why not just make a sequel? Is everyone scared of having their own disaster, like EQ2?

[Solario]

Because licensed property is Big Money and Big Built-In Audience?

[Dr Jack Wolfe]

Yeah, if your contimplating CoH2 (like Everquest 2, which wasn't huge) and Marvel says "For a million Dollers and 3% of revenue we'll let you use the Marvel Universe." Easy sell.

I'd say 200k is pretty damn for an MMO, WoW's 8 million is off the charts.

http://gigaom.com/2007/06/13/top-ten-most-popular-mmos/
Is a pretty good article but contains sites we've probably never heard of or wouldin't vist. It appears to drop of real quick.


I hadn't heard they were gonna let us use signature charcters, but interact with them. My bet? Thor will out power any PC as much as Statesman or Positron does and CoH character...or even more.

[Jazz]

I hadn't heard they were gonna let us use signature charcters, but interact with them. My bet? Thor will out power any PC as much as Statesman or Positron does and CoH character...or even more.

They've said nothing, one way or the other. Actually, since the game's announcement 8 months.. they've said nothing. Period.

It's just idle speculation on my part.

The *BIG* thing that MUO has going for it is the legacy of their existing intellectual properties. They *must* leverage it. If I'm making the game, and I want to tap into a huge audience that isn't currently part of the MMO gaming world, I'd make the game very accessible to non-MMO veterans. Like the fans of the comics.

That's why I think the game will be more console-like than MMO-like.

And I'd make the signature Marvel Characters playable, but on a very limited basis. They'd basically be there as short term rewards. To drive large story lines forward, and provide the player with a more personalized connection to the Marvel Universe, but not give the player the opportunity to "hijack" or distort Marvel's canon. But I'd never let the players use signature characters to PvP against regular player characters, perhaps against other signature characters....

[Cloud Runner]

Seriously, think about all the heroes in Marvels roster, even the lame ones. That alone justifies 2 million more. As for unbelievability, how many times do lame heroes take down Recluse or Nemesis, Honoree, Mako, Ghost Widow, ect?
Lastly, the way Jack made it sound at the comic con panel is that you will get to play spidey and Punisher, but not in the way you think. He said they are fully aware of the fact Spidey would be the first to be taken and youd get stuck with Rogue.

About the argument on Marvel owning the rights to your character, do you plan to make a comic series? Were playing a video game people, its fun to write stories for your character and everything, but for me that just gives personality to this jumble of code Im playing with. And quite frankly Id love it to see my character "stolen" by Marvel even if I didnt see a dime. (But that will not happen). MUO will be different and NC has learned alot from coding mistakes in COH that keeps them from putting these really complicated features. So, in a sense it will be better. But, Im not leaving CoH for it by a long shot, Ill be playing them both, as well as the DC MMO.

[Noble]

I honestly don't think we should expect anything terribly different from CoH. I mean, it's like EQ set the standard for fantasy MMO's and they build from there. Now we have WoW and other modern fantasy MMO's that are huge because of it. Though you still have the die hard EQ fans that loved the old gaming. So who knows, maybe CoH will become the standard for future hero MMO's...though that seems more like a certainty than anything else since the same company is making CoH and MUO.

[WingedAvenger]

Assuming you get to make your own, independent character, how are they going to explain that the Marvel Universe is suddenly inundated with eight million new superheroes? See, that works in the context of CoH... they wrote the game lore specifically to explain the unbelievable amount of masked vigilantes running about. But what the hell does the Marvel universe need? Take New York, for example. In that one city, you have the Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Spider-Man, the Punisher... what could possibly come up that would need YOUR meager help? Because you're never, ever going to even come within binocular distance of Spider-man's league.

It won't be that big a deal. Firstly, it's fictional. There could be 100 bajillion superheroes standing on the head of a pin and it doesn't matter, because it's not really real. Secondly, when Lord ofthe Rings Online came out, do you know how many people worried about what it would be like when Middle-Earth was suddenly populated thousands of new adventure seekers? The answer is none. When The Matrix Online came out, how many peoples fretted over all the redpills suddenly running about leaping from the walls? Again, the answer is none. It's just a game, and one that's designed to allow mass quantities of live players to play and interact within it at the same time. You also don't see anyone pouting over the fact that they'll never be as cool as Neo or Gandalf for pretty much the same reasons.


Also, guys like Daredevil wouldn't just hang around on a small pedestal somewhere, shelling out missions. He'd damn well go and handle them himself.

The gameplay for the MUO game could be completely different from the way CoH does it. But even if it is similar, so what? That would be just the way the game is. There's a real simple solution to not liking that you're seeing Daredevil handing out missions to young superheroes: Don't play.


In City of Heroes, we have a fleshed out universe to operate in, independent of licensing restrictions. We have a roster of cool, brand new superheroes and supervillains. I don''t know about you, but watching heroes with names like SuperGhostKillah and AngelofHell (http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/4342/angeloflolus3.jpg) take down Doctor Doom or Magneto would push my suspension of disbelief far off the scale.

Let me ask you this then: As a potential MUO player, would you be more excited or less excited if you found out that players will never get to fight the big name baddies like Dr. Doom?


I gotta ask... what will that game provide that you can't get in CoH?

Have you ever played any MMORPG other then CoH? There's TONS of stuff you can do that isn't available in CoH.


Because it certainly won't be a clean slate for creativity.

I don't think you could be more dead wrong here. Just because some 15-year-old can't think of any character idea better then TEHPUN1SH3R doesn't mean me and thousands of others will be locked into that same problem. It does however depend on the type and variety of creative tools they give us to make characters with, so for right now, the onus is on Cryptic.

[Cloud Runner]

It won't be that big a deal. Firstly, it's fictional. There could be 100 bajillion superheroes standing on the head of a pin and it doesn't matter, because it's not really real. Secondly, when Lord ofthe Rings Online came out, do you know how many people worried about what it would be like when Middle-Earth was suddenly populated thousands of new adventure seekers? The answer is none. When The Matrix Online came out, how many peoples fretted over all the redpills suddenly running about leaping from the walls? Again, the answer is none. It's just a game, and one that's designed to allow mass quantities of live players to play and interact within it at the same time. You also don't see anyone pouting over the fact that they'll never be as cool as Neo or Gandalf for pretty much the same reasons.




The gameplay for the MUO game could be completely different from the way CoH does it. But even if it is similar, so what? That would be just the way the game is. There's a real simple solution to not liking that you're seeing Daredevil handing out missions to young superheroes: Don't play.




Let me ask you this then: As a potential MUO player, would you be more excited or less excited if you found out that players will never get to fight the big name baddies like Dr. Doom?




Have you ever played any MMORPG other then CoH? There's TONS of stuff you can do that isn't available in CoH.




I don't think you could be more dead wrong here. Just because some 15-year-old can't think of any character idea better then TEHPUN1SH3R doesn't mean me and thousands of others will be locked into that same problem. It does however depend on the type and variety of creative tools they give us to make characters with, so for right now, the onus is on Cryptic.

QFMFT

[razoras]

I expect very little from MUO. It's going to have to be console friendly, which means a completely different gameplay experience that MMORPG players won't care for.

It's going to blow. Phantasy Star Online at least had a Japanese market to cash in on.

[Plasma Wisp]

How much info do we know compared to speculation?

[Hydrothermia]

How much info do we know compared to speculation?
Very little at best. And I'm betting that in their EULA will have some sort of context of we have the creative licenses to steal your MUO created character and use for our own to produce new heroes and villains without paying them, they're paying us. But that's just my opinion on it, so don't take it too seriously, I just think Marvel would undermine their own niche.